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Post by Starshine on Dec 4, 2019 19:56:55 GMT -5
Like, if he really wanted to speak in a similar vein, he could have easily said something like: "it's frustrating, and I love all the support I've been getting. Unfortunately I don't write the show, but you can bet you haven't seen the last of Kofi chasing that belt." At least show some damn fire, or a spark, or anything. Just not this complacent on-screen character trash.
No top star would ever speak in such defeatist tones. It's such a shame.
EDIT: Granted, I do wonder how much of this is based on the fact this is Corey Graves fluffcast, and nothing of note will ever be said on it. It'd just be nice if at least Kofi sounded sincere.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 4, 2019 20:00:42 GMT -5
Said this shit from jump with Kofi character is not just going to jump up and down because he lost but people are going to insert their own narrative because unless Kofi said Brock Lesnar is a bitch, it invalidates everything he did up until he lost the title Yeah.
Kofi straight up asked what case does he have to go against Lesnar again if he lost in 8 seconds and that's real lol. Kofi's dope and I loved his reign but honestly straight up, when someone loses clean in a short amount of time in a period where they didn't have rematches (as it was then) then hey, that should be the most obvious answer. Whining for a rematch after a clean loss is such a bitch move. Maybe if Kofi was a heel but nah.
I've been on record that I hate the narrative that a 8 sec lost invalided Kofi. He legit had one of the biggest WM moments in history and arguably the biggest WM for a black person in history so yeah y'all can miss me with that shit lol In kayfabe, this is Kofi the dude has literally preached the power of positivity for 5 years. Him bitching and moaning in character about losing to Lesnar is what invalidates him. If he was a heel then yeah he'd have that right to complain but as a face it is out of left field Kudos to Daniel Bryan for propping him up tho
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 20:03:35 GMT -5
From Graves's podcast.
And the person who pushed for him to be in the WM match was Bryan. As for Kofi's comments, he's right. I've been saying it since the Lesnar loss but it makes absolutely no sense for Kofi to be upset that he lost to Lesnar that quick. People who wanted him to be that way just don't understand Kofi's character as his entire character's a guy who doesn't really let anything get to him. We saw that with the Vince thing earlier where he had to be pushed to get in Vince's face, we've seen that for him for years, that's just his character. Sure, people wanted it but the reality is nah, Kofi took that loss like he takes any other loss. Said this shit from jump with Kofi character is not just going to jump up and down because he lost but people are going to insert their own narrative because unless Kofi said Brock Lesnar is a bitch, it invalidates everything he did up until he lost the title "Kofi's character is not going to jump up and down because he loss." That's all well and good. Kofi's character loses a title match and goes "Hey, I tried." Then moves on. It's such an integral part of Kofi's character... Wait, let's go back to Elimination Chamber. Kofi lost fair and square a WWE Title match. Then he moved on, right? Cause that's his character, right? Nah, he fought for a title match at Wrestlemania. Because he wasn't going to let a loss take away the chance to become WWE Champion. So what is Kofi's character? A man who doesn't let title losses affect him, so much that he doesn't even seek a rematch? Or does he keep fighting to reach that top status against unbelievable odds? And therein lies the problem, WWE doesn't have characters, they have moments occupied by whoever they want in them. Kofi's win at Mania is my favorite moment of the year, might be my favorite wrestling moment of the past decade, but this is shit storytelling. There is no character explanation for Kofi suddenly deciding to give up fighting for the gold he was willing to go through so much to attain.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 4, 2019 20:07:33 GMT -5
Said this shit from jump with Kofi character is not just going to jump up and down because he lost but people are going to insert their own narrative because unless Kofi said Brock Lesnar is a bitch, it invalidates everything he did up until he lost the title "Kofi's character is not going to jump up and down because he loss." That's all well and good. Kofi's character loses a title match and goes "Hey, I tried." Then moves on. It's such an integral part of Kofi's character... Wait, let's go back to Elimination Chamber. Kofi lost fair and square a WWE Title match. Then he moved on, right? Cause that's his character, right? Nah, he fought for a title match at Wrestlemania. Because he wasn't going to let a loss take away the chance to become WWE Champion. So what is Kofi's character? A man who doesn't let title losses affect him, so much that he doesn't even seek a rematch? Or does he keep fighting to reach that top status against unbelievable odds? And therein lies the problem, WWE doesn't have characters, they have moments occupied by whoever they want in them. Kofi's win at Mania is my favorite moment of the year, might be my favorite wrestling moment of the past decade, but this is shit storytelling. There is no character explanation for Kofi suddenly deciding to give up fighting for the gold he was willing to go through so much to attain. You're leaving out the fact that he fought so hard because he was cheated out of the opportunities thanks to Vince and DB working against him Brock called Kofi out, Kofi accepted the challenge and lost fairly. That was a clear and decisive lost that Kofi f***ed up on. He tried to jump Lesnar and got caught. It is not that he is giving up on the title but more so the fact he knows he has to go back to the drawing board
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 20:10:54 GMT -5
"Kofi's character is not going to jump up and down because he loss." That's all well and good. Kofi's character loses a title match and goes "Hey, I tried." Then moves on. It's such an integral part of Kofi's character... Wait, let's go back to Elimination Chamber. Kofi lost fair and square a WWE Title match. Then he moved on, right? Cause that's his character, right? Nah, he fought for a title match at Wrestlemania. Because he wasn't going to let a loss take away the chance to become WWE Champion. So what is Kofi's character? A man who doesn't let title losses affect him, so much that he doesn't even seek a rematch? Or does he keep fighting to reach that top status against unbelievable odds? And therein lies the problem, WWE doesn't have characters, they have moments occupied by whoever they want in them. Kofi's win at Mania is my favorite moment of the year, might be my favorite wrestling moment of the past decade, but this is shit storytelling. There is no character explanation for Kofi suddenly deciding to give up fighting for the gold he was willing to go through so much to attain. You're leaving out the fact that he fought so hard because he was cheated out of the opportunities thanks to Vince and DB working against him Brock called Kofi out, Kofi accepted the challenge and lost fairly. That was a clear and decisive lost that Kofi f***ed up on. He tried to jump Lesnar and got caught. It is not that he is giving up on the title but more so the fact he knows he has to go back to the drawing board He had no case for a rematch after Elimination Chamber. He had the same chance as every other guy in it, then loss clean. Didn't stop him from challenging Bryan again. The same story could've been told with Lesnar. Or even something as simple as "Kofi's confidence is shook after that loss and he needs to build himself up to face Lesnar again." Instead it's, "Well, that happened. Guess I'll go back to the tag division."
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 4, 2019 20:11:44 GMT -5
"Kofi's character is not going to jump up and down because he loss." That's all well and good. Kofi's character loses a title match and goes "Hey, I tried." Then moves on. It's such an integral part of Kofi's character... Wait, let's go back to Elimination Chamber. Kofi lost fair and square a WWE Title match. Then he moved on, right? Cause that's his character, right? Nah, he fought for a title match at Wrestlemania. Because he wasn't going to let a loss take away the chance to become WWE Champion. So what is Kofi's character? A man who doesn't let title losses affect him, so much that he doesn't even seek a rematch? Or does he keep fighting to reach that top status against unbelievable odds? And therein lies the problem, WWE doesn't have characters, they have moments occupied by whoever they want in them. Kofi's win at Mania is my favorite moment of the year, might be my favorite wrestling moment of the past decade, but this is shit storytelling. There is no character explanation for Kofi suddenly deciding to give up fighting for the gold he was willing to go through so much to attain. You're leaving out the fact that he fought so hard because he was cheated out of the opportunities thanks to Vince and DB working against him Brock called Kofi out, Kofi accepted the challenge and lost fairly. That was a clear and decisive lost that Kofi f***ed up on. He tried to jump Lesnar and got caught. It is not that he is giving up on the title but more so the fact he knows he has to go back to the drawing board What drawing board? Is he challenging top guys? No he’s happy about bullshit tag team inferior titles.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 4, 2019 20:15:26 GMT -5
You're leaving out the fact that he fought so hard because he was cheated out of the opportunities thanks to Vince and DB working against him Brock called Kofi out, Kofi accepted the challenge and lost fairly. That was a clear and decisive lost that Kofi f***ed up on. He tried to jump Lesnar and got caught. It is not that he is giving up on the title but more so the fact he knows he has to go back to the drawing board He had no case for a rematch after Elimination Chamber. He had the same chance as every other guy in it, then loss clean. Didn't stop him from challenging Bryan again. The same story could've been told with Lesnar. Or even something as simple as "Kofi's confidence is shook after that loss and he needs to build himself up to face Lesnar again." Instead it's, "Well, that happened. Guess I'll go back to the tag division." KO and Ali were given title matches at Fastlane. Kofi was given his chance at the title in another gauntlet match which he was cheated out of when Vince inserted DB into the mix. It took Big E and Woods to win another gauntlet match for him to get his shot
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 20:15:30 GMT -5
I've been on record that I hate the narrative that a 8 sec lost invalided Kofi. He legit had one of the biggest WM moments in history and arguably the biggest WM for a black person in history so yeah y'all can miss me with that shit lol In kayfabe, this is Kofi the dude has literally preached the power of positivity for 5 years. Him bitching and moaning in character about losing to Lesnar is what invalidates him. If he was a heel then yeah he'd have that right to complain but as a face it is out of left field Kudos to Daniel Bryan for propping him up tho If one loss invalidated Kofi's win and reign then his win and reign just wasn't important enough to people. As a black man, for me that win and reign was important enough that the loss didn't bother me compared to it. At the end of the day yeah how he lost sucks but nah, the entire storyline as a whole was a positive. Besides, it happened against World Killer Lesnar. It wasn't like Hulk Hogan beat him while calling him slurs in the ring in 3 seconds lol. This was a dude who's always winning.
From a kayfabe perspective Kofi's saying the same thing he's always said when he's lost a title and when he takes an L. It just so happens that he was WWE Champion and people are expecting him to be angry and go after Lesnar when the reality is nah, he's not like that when it comes to stuff like this.
"Kofi's character is not going to jump up and down because he loss." That's all well and good. Kofi's character loses a title match and goes "Hey, I tried." Then moves on. It's such an integral part of Kofi's character... Wait, let's go back to Elimination Chamber. Kofi lost fair and square a WWE Title match. Then he moved on, right? Cause that's his character, right? Nah, he fought for a title match at Wrestlemania. Because he wasn't going to let a loss take away the chance to become WWE Champion. So what is Kofi's character? A man who doesn't let title losses affect him, so much that he doesn't even seek a rematch? Or does he keep fighting to reach that top status against unbelievable odds?
And therein lies the problem, WWE doesn't have characters, they have moments occupied by whoever they want in them. Kofi's win at Mania is my favorite moment of the year, might be my favorite wrestling moment of the past decade, but this is shit storytelling. There is no character explanation for Kofi suddenly deciding to give up fighting for the gold he was willing to go through so much to attain. That's not what happened in that storyline.
After the Elimination Chamber Kofi cut this promo, notice how he mentions momentum aka "I'm getting back on the road here." They had that 6 man tag match later.
He picked up that win by pinning Bryan and then afterwards they announced him/Bryan at Fastlane which started with shenanigans due to his win.
The truth is Kofi didn't do anything different than what he's been doing. He's been saying the same thing for years. He's always talking about staying on the path, recovering, getting momentum and it just so happened the offices announced the Bryan match. It's not like he went out there after EC and said "hey gimme that match" and the whole reason we had that Vince/Bryan shenanigans storyline is because they were purposefully screwing Kofi out of that match after they already announced it.
In this Lesnar case, Kofi literally wasn't screwed which goes back to Kofi's own comments about "what case do I have" given it was clean.
There's clearly a difference between the Kofi/Bryan storyline and the Kofi/Lesnar storyline. With Kofi/Lesnar he wasn't screwed while with Kofi/Bryan, yeah he was screwed.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 4, 2019 20:18:33 GMT -5
I've been on record that I hate the narrative that a 8 sec lost invalided Kofi. He legit had one of the biggest WM moments in history and arguably the biggest WM for a black person in history so yeah y'all can miss me with that shit lol In kayfabe, this is Kofi the dude has literally preached the power of positivity for 5 years. Him bitching and moaning in character about losing to Lesnar is what invalidates him. If he was a heel then yeah he'd have that right to complain but as a face it is out of left field Kudos to Daniel Bryan for propping him up tho If one loss invalidated Kofi's win and reign then his win and reign just wasn't important enough to people. As a black man, for me that win and reign was important enough that the loss didn't bother me compared to it. At the end of the day yeah how he lost sucks but nah, the entire storyline as a whole was a positive. Besides, it happened against World Killer Lesnar. It wasn't like Hulk Hogan beat him while calling him slurs in the ring in 3 seconds lol. This was a dude who's always winning.
From a kayfabe perspective Kofi's saying the same thing he's always said when he's lost a title and when he takes an L. It just so happens that he was WWE Champion and people are expecting him to be angry and go after Lesnar when the reality is nah, he's not like that when it comes to stuff like this. And that's where i'm at I was there live, I saw the moment. Kofi can literally be a jobber for the rest of his career and it wouldn't invalidate that moment. Honestly, it is what it is. He was given a major moment and a decent reign that helped him get over his career demon in Orton
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 20:24:15 GMT -5
If one loss invalidated Kofi's win and reign then his win and reign just wasn't important enough to people. As a black man, for me that win and reign was important enough that the loss didn't bother me compared to it. At the end of the day yeah how he lost sucks but nah, the entire storyline as a whole was a positive. Besides, it happened against World Killer Lesnar. It wasn't like Hulk Hogan beat him while calling him slurs in the ring in 3 seconds lol. This was a dude who's always winning.
From a kayfabe perspective Kofi's saying the same thing he's always said when he's lost a title and when he takes an L. It just so happens that he was WWE Champion and people are expecting him to be angry and go after Lesnar when the reality is nah, he's not like that when it comes to stuff like this. And that's where i'm at I was there live, I saw the moment. Kofi can literally be a jobber for the rest of his career and it wouldn't invalidate that moment. Honestly, it is what it is. He was given a major moment and a decent reign that helped him get over his career demon in Orton Yeah it was very inspiring. I've never seen something like that from someone who looks like me so yeah it was impressive. Sure, Booker was King Booker but Kofi was a happy face and everything surrounding it? And he beat all those dudes clean to where people started to slightly turn on him? You mean that to get the belt off the dude he had to be beaten by the strongest guy in modern WWE history? Shit, it's cool with me. Those tears are more important.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 20:37:22 GMT -5
I've been on record that I hate the narrative that a 8 sec lost invalided Kofi. He legit had one of the biggest WM moments in history and arguably the biggest WM for a black person in history so yeah y'all can miss me with that shit lol In kayfabe, this is Kofi the dude has literally preached the power of positivity for 5 years. Him bitching and moaning in character about losing to Lesnar is what invalidates him. If he was a heel then yeah he'd have that right to complain but as a face it is out of left field Kudos to Daniel Bryan for propping him up tho If one loss invalidated Kofi's win and reign then his win and reign just wasn't important enough to people. As a black man, for me that win and reign was important enough that the loss didn't bother me compared to it. At the end of the day yeah how he lost sucks but nah, the entire storyline as a whole was a positive. Besides, it happened against World Killer Lesnar. It wasn't like Hulk Hogan beat him while calling him slurs in the ring in 3 seconds lol. This was a dude who's always winning.
From a kayfabe perspective Kofi's saying the same thing he's always said when he's lost a title and when he takes an L. It just so happens that he was WWE Champion and people are expecting him to be angry and go after Lesnar when the reality is nah, he's not like that when it comes to stuff like this.
"Kofi's character is not going to jump up and down because he loss." That's all well and good. Kofi's character loses a title match and goes "Hey, I tried." Then moves on. It's such an integral part of Kofi's character... Wait, let's go back to Elimination Chamber. Kofi lost fair and square a WWE Title match. Then he moved on, right? Cause that's his character, right? Nah, he fought for a title match at Wrestlemania. Because he wasn't going to let a loss take away the chance to become WWE Champion. So what is Kofi's character? A man who doesn't let title losses affect him, so much that he doesn't even seek a rematch? Or does he keep fighting to reach that top status against unbelievable odds?
And therein lies the problem, WWE doesn't have characters, they have moments occupied by whoever they want in them. Kofi's win at Mania is my favorite moment of the year, might be my favorite wrestling moment of the past decade, but this is shit storytelling. There is no character explanation for Kofi suddenly deciding to give up fighting for the gold he was willing to go through so much to attain. That's not what happened in that storyline.
After the Elimination Chamber Kofi cut this promo, notice how he mentions momentum aka "I'm getting back on the road here." They had that 6 man tag match later.
He picked up that win by pinning Bryan and then afterwards they announced him/Bryan at Fastlane which started with shenanigans due to his win.
The truth is Kofi didn't do anything different than what he's been doing. He's been saying the same thing for years. He's always talking about staying on the path, recovering, getting momentum and it just so happened the offices announced the Bryan match. It's not like he went out there after EC and said "hey gimme that match" and the whole reason we had that Vince/Bryan shenanigans storyline is because they were purposefully screwing Kofi out of that match after they already announced it.
In this Lesnar case, Kofi literally wasn't screwed which goes back to Kofi's own comments about "what case do I have" given it was clean.
There's clearly a difference between the Kofi/Bryan storyline and the Kofi/Lesnar storyline. With Kofi/Lesnar he wasn't screwed while with Kofi/Bryan, yeah he was screwed.
If Kofi's whole character is apparently someone who just goes with the flow, doesn't care to redeem himself after losing the top title after months of having it, then he shouldn't have even fought to get the match with Bryan. The moment Vince was like "Lol, nope." His character should've been like "Well, that's that." Cause that's what this is, accepting your lot and moving on. Like, it's one thing to be positive, it's another to completely give up on being WWE Champion because you got caught. People in combat sports get caught all the time, most don't immediately think "Well, guess I'll just stop trying to be the champ now." It makes even less sense when you see how many SUCCESSFUL defenses he had. Like maybe this level of giving up makes sense if he didn't even sniff a long reign, but he proved himself to be a true fighting champion... Then decided not to fight to be one again.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 20:40:43 GMT -5
For me this isn't about needing him to get an actual shot at the title.
But this is about basically assassinating his character.
His entire motivation this year has been grinding and pushing forward toward that title not letting anything get in his way...that took 11yrs for him to finally achieve.
He then lost it in 8 seconds....and then nothing , no reaction , no mention no nothing there is no excuse for that other than absoloute shitty f***ing writing and characterization and it makes him look like a bitch in that he lost and he immediately wanted nothing to do with Lesnar and the title after.
He does not care so neither will anyone else.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 20:53:58 GMT -5
Kofi should have just said “I don’t book this shit” and been done with it. Trying to justify character motivation, kayfabe, etc, just makes him look bad. If his character didn’t care about losing the title in embarrassing fashion, and is just happy to be there again, then what the hell was the point?
The sad thing is, if Wyatt was moving to SD anyway, then they could have had Kofi drop the belt to the Fiend instead. Having him lose in 5 seconds to Lesnar only to see Brock peace out and go to Raw didn’t make any sense.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 20:59:02 GMT -5
If Kofi's whole character is apparently someone who just goes with the flow, doesn't care to redeem himself after losing the top title after months of having it, then he shouldn't have even fought to get the match with Bryan. The moment Vince was like "Lol, nope." His character should've been like "Well, that's that." Cause that's what this is, accepting your lot and moving on. Like, it's one thing to be positive, it's another to completely give up on being WWE Champion because you got caught. People in combat sports get caught all the time, most don't immediately think "Well, guess I'll just stop trying to be the champ now." It makes even less sense when you see how many SUCCESSFUL defenses he had. Like maybe this level of giving up makes sense if he didn't even sniff a long reign, but he proved himself to be a true fighting champion... Then decided not to fight to be one again. That...doesn't make any sense.
There's a clear difference between someone giving something to you and taking it away, like with the Kofi/Bryan storyline where Kofi was given the match but then having it taken away through numerous shenanigans, and you not getting that same thing after not having it. The whole reason why Kofi fought for the Bryan match is because they already announced the match and then they took it away away from him. Had they not announced the match at all then he wouldn't have been fighting for it as he wasn't the one who brought up the match in the first place, the company as a whole did hence the video I just linked. Nobody in this thread can literally give a legit case for Kofi challenging Brock again after that loss which is the entire point of his comment.
Kofi's character is the modern mindset of any basketball, football, real life sports star in 2019. What he said here is literally no different than what Lebron, or Steph would say after they take an L. Just listen to any post-game interviews and you'll hear the same thing. The difference is that this isn't like wrestling as, with my second post, wrestling has conditioned fans to think you're supposed to be mad and want to immediately go back against said person.
Again, not every person is that same "well lemme try again against em surely I'll get it done trust me, gimme one more match" type of person and that applies to real life.
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Post by Tenshigure on Dec 4, 2019 21:05:43 GMT -5
...I mean, yes? Your on-screen character SHOULD be pissed off after jumping through all those hoops to gain the opportunity, to overcome the odds repeatedly with numerous gauntlet matches and get a championship opportunity at WrestleMania, to become a World Champion
...what's the conundrum exactly? You should be PISSED that the thing you fought over a decade for was taken from you in an instant moment of misjudgement. You should be riled up and eager to get back at the guy who took what mattered the most to you, get up and fight back.
The only conundrum I see here is that you got put back into the place where the company has always wanted you to be, and the only thing you can do is be the same corporate Yes man you've been since you were hired by the company. Congrats on the 1,000+ tag team title reign, I guess...but you've completely lost me on how this could be a complex thing.
***
Kofi Kingston is 2019's Jinder Mahal. The only difference is Jinder actually fought for a rematch and got more than 8 seconds to try to regain it. Those who are perfectly content with the direction his character has gone in the aftermath of his loss to Lesnar, you're just expressing the very reason why the WWE will never give him another shot at the belt.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 21:12:37 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean Kofi's moment at WM is still great, but he lost me here.
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Post by brettappedout (BLM) on Dec 4, 2019 21:36:13 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean Kofi's moment at WM is still great, but he lost me here. Yep. Just comes off as a yes man. He didn't need to throw a fit on Twitter or anything, but showing something would've nice.
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Post by Nobody Likes King Devitt on Dec 4, 2019 21:36:40 GMT -5
For me this isn't about needing him to get an actual shot at the title. But this is about basically assassinating his character. His entire motivation this year has been grinding and pushing forward toward that title not letting anything get in his way...that took 11yrs for him to finally achieve. He then lost it in 8 seconds....and then nothing , no reaction , no mention no nothing there is no excuse for that other than absoloute shitty f***ing writing and characterization and it makes him look like a bitch in that he lost and he immediately wanted nothing to do with Lesnar and the title after. He does not care so neither will anyone else. 100% this.
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Facetious
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Post by Facetious on Dec 4, 2019 21:40:22 GMT -5
Sounds to me like Kofi's in character defending it, but it just reinforces why you shouldn't give two shits about anyone on Raw and SD. If you don't care, why should anyone.
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Rican
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Post by Rican on Dec 4, 2019 22:19:44 GMT -5
That's super lame but I mean, I don't know what else he could say really.
Also nice to see how rebellious and dangerous Corey's podcast is lol
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