Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 5, 2019 3:59:13 GMT -5
All I've gathered from this is that Kofi's character is super basic and bad. This guy just had an entire storyline about being tired of waiting around for opportunities, but after taking the most embarrassing loss of his career he's suddenly too positive to try and regain the belt that took him 10 years to get. It's such bad writing that I still struggle to believe that this isn't an elaborate storyline where Kofi realizes he's acting like a total clown. Yeah, like, I get that he might not have that hunger and chip on his shoulder anymore. He's been to the top, he achieved the dream. But, you would think he'd still have pride, and still have to wonder if he can beat Brock. Like, even if he feels like he has nothing to prove since he won the title, you'd think he'd also want this accolade. If it's just "Oh, I'm holding down the fort while Xavier's hurt", that's one thing, but even then, why can't Big E just do his own thing in the meantime? The whole build to Kofi's title win was Big E and Xavier saying how they'd do anything to make Kofi champion, so it's not like they'd hold it against him. Hell, I'd settle for "Kofi decides Big E deserves a chance, and wants to help him get a piece of Brock". It'd be a bit strange, but i could at least wrap my head around why he wouldn't push for a rematch when he wanted to pay the support Big E showed him back in kind, that their friendship transcended a need to pad his resume. But no, just right back to the status quo. It's shit writing.
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segaz
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Post by segaz on Dec 5, 2019 4:00:06 GMT -5
The sad thing is, they could easily explain Kofi not getting a title shot simply by way of no more automatic rematches, and further being locked out by Lesnar quitting Smackdown, making a rematch now impossible, but vowing to take down The Fiend if he gets the chance, while still being proud to represent the tag division in Woods's absence. Why go for such a midcarder for life response? It goes against everything Kofi Kingston is supposed to be is the worst part about this response. Your character for the past year has been grinding for opportunities and proving your worth to everyone after all this time. And after getting it and losing it your response is now... "Oh well, at least I got it right? No point in trying anymore" It's just... INSULTING, to hear that, especially for the people who pulled for you so much and wanted to see you succeed, this is like "Follow your dreams, keep fighting for them, and if you achieve them, and lose them, don't bother trying to attain them again, give up", like it's a really f***ed up way of thinking and that's what this situation really boils down to. Imagine a kid watching that, and kids DID watch that, that's such a shit thing to tell them whether you intended to or not. That's not insulting. That's life. Dreams change. Do you say the same about Olympic athletes who win gold once and then retire? They proved to themselves they could break the ceiling. Now it's time to move on, to a new challenge in their life. Unfortunately the WWE should have rammed the narrative down our throats. Or like maybe Big E guilt tripped him into trying to help New Day regain Tag Gold, or maybe he needed to regain perspective on things. There have been plenty of one and done WWE champions before. But to you, the storyline should be that he says 'revenge forever, until i become champion and never lose it'? I'm not saying that's a bad storyline. That's good in a vast number of situations. I'm saying this stance can also be a valid storyline. Hey I'd like to see a wrestler breakdown under the pressure of being champ and try to abdicate the title (by proxy the responsibilities). I'd like to see a terrorised wrestler afraid to wrestle in a tag match again because he hurt his partner. He could overcome his fear and rise above it, OR he could retire. Yes, kids CAN handle such narratives. If I were of a different ilk, I might ponder on the fact that some people here still feel Kofi needs to prove himself and work twice as hard as others.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 4:25:19 GMT -5
Yeah, that's trash.
You don't give us this long storyline about Kofi overcoming impossible obstacles and finally reaching the mountaintop after 11 years of grinding and not even have him acknowledge losing the title on the damn show (not YouTube). All you need is a promo thanking the fans, admitting he got caught but vowing to get back on top. It's that easy. Being positive doesn't equal "Oh well, it happens." It came off like he didn't care about losing what he spent months telling us meant so much to him. Like, who the f*** wants to see a pro wrestler -- especially after a story like this where he was a damn hero -- basically be like "Welp, it was fun while it lasted." A story as good as Kofi's deserved a better ending. Nah, it doesn't invalidate the reign, but it does put a stank on it.
Trash.
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Post by eJm on Dec 5, 2019 5:16:06 GMT -5
That's not insulting. That's life. But...it isn't real life. It's pro wrestling. And nobody here is expecting Kofi to be raging, kicking up a fuss, punching agents or crying tears in the middle of the ring. Just... something. Like, give me a reason why Kofi's suddenly in the tag division and not at least feeling bad about events. The literal thing we got was him crushing that pancake that one week. That was it. Have Big E say he'll team with him to cheer him up and it happens to lead them to the tag titles and Kofi slowly coming to terms with things. Or have Kofi not want to for a couple of weeks before saving E from a beatdown from The Revival, just.... anything. It's just after everything, all the fight he gave, the heartfelt promos, the Bryan counterpoints and every feud involving reminding Kofi where he was before...to suddenly just fall back to that level so willingly? As a viewer it's just...it doesn't make me want to root for anyone because it feels clearer that outside of, what, two people, people are just happy to be there and I feel that's sort of what WWE wants to an extent.
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Post by Tenshigure on Dec 5, 2019 5:29:42 GMT -5
That's not insulting. That's life. But...it isn't real life. It's pro wrestling. Equate the whole situation to a movie like Rocky III; that would've been one hell of a short movie if he just gave up after losing to Clubber Lang after the first fight. Rocky = Kofi Lang = Lesnar Eye of the Tiger = "Power of Positivity" Nope, gotta go back to being a bum at Mickey's Gym, that's how that story ended!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 5:53:58 GMT -5
But...it isn't real life. It's pro wrestling. Equate the whole situation to a movie like Rocky III; that would've been one hell of a short movie if he just gave up after losing to Clubber Lang after the first fight. Rocky = Kofi Lang = Lesnar Power of Positivity = Eye of the Tiger Nope, gotta go back to being a bum at Mickey's Gym, that's how that story ended! I want a football movie where the underdog team gets beat by 30 points and the end of the movie is the other team taking a knee. Roll credits.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Dec 5, 2019 6:15:10 GMT -5
I'm with Kofi in that after reading this thread I'm no clearer on whether people are angry at Kofi the man, the character or just WWE booking.
WWE's booking I can get, Kofi's character is fictional and the real-life Kofi has no control over either of the other two.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 10:38:33 GMT -5
I'm with Kofi in that after reading this thread I'm no clearer on whether people are angry at Kofi the man, the character or just WWE booking. WWE's booking I can get, Kofi's character is fictional and the real-life Kofi has no control over either of the other two. I'm just talking about him strictly as a character. The real life guy's obviously awesome. Like others have said (and in a better way than I could ever put it), why should I care about what a character goes through if they don't give a shit themselves?
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Post by chronocross on Dec 5, 2019 10:49:59 GMT -5
I'm surprised that Kofi's character didn't try to pursue a rematch and say "hey I got overzealous, it was the first Smackdown on Fox and rushed in without thinking and got beat but if I meet him again, I'll be more cautious and take the fight to Brock and beat him". I know it's hard now considering they're on different brands but I thought it would've been cool to see him at least try for the belt again and look better in a second encounter.
I watched the 24 special on Kofi and it felt like such a big deal and it looks weird for me to see him just kinda shrug his shoulders and say "ah well" and go back to tagging up again like it never happened.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 11:13:52 GMT -5
It goes against everything Kofi Kingston is supposed to be is the worst part about this response. Your character for the past year has been grinding for opportunities and proving your worth to everyone after all this time. And after getting it and losing it your response is now... "Oh well, at least I got it right? No point in trying anymore" It's just... INSULTING, to hear that, especially for the people who pulled for you so much and wanted to see you succeed, this is like "Follow your dreams, keep fighting for them, and if you achieve them, and lose them, don't bother trying to attain them again, give up", like it's a really f***ed up way of thinking and that's what this situation really boils down to. Imagine a kid watching that, and kids DID watch that, that's such a shit thing to tell them whether you intended to or not. If I were of a different ilk, I might ponder on the fact that some people here still feel Kofi needs to prove himself and work twice as hard as others. I mean, you say you aren't doing that but you're trying to passive aggressively bait people anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 13:09:41 GMT -5
Anyone who goes, "Oh darn, guess it was fun while it lasted" and immediately goes back to tossing pancakes like nothing happened is a bitch. Like, as much as I despise the New Day (and boy do I ever), it was something different and unique, and now we're just going to pretend like it doesn't matter anymore. Plus, they aren't helping the tag scene with their presence; if anything, it hurts an already weak division by making them the only focus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 13:11:20 GMT -5
Nope, can't agree with this. It made him look an idiot. The big debut on FOX and he looks like a loser who had no business being world champion who just went "Aw shucks" and carried on throwing pancakes.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 5, 2019 13:14:34 GMT -5
Anyone who goes, "Oh darn, guess it was fun while it lasted" and immediately goes back to tossing pancakes like nothing happened is a bitch. Like, as much as I despise the New Day (and boy do I ever), it was something different and unique, and now we're just going to pretend like it doesn't matter anymore. Plus, they aren't helping the tag scene with their presence; if anything, it hurts an already weak division by making them the only focus. I can’t buy him as a top guy anymore, he’s being happy about being demoted and that’s bullshit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 13:23:04 GMT -5
"Kofi's character is not going to jump up and down because he loss." That's all well and good. Kofi's character loses a title match and goes "Hey, I tried." Then moves on. It's such an integral part of Kofi's character... Wait, let's go back to Elimination Chamber. Kofi lost fair and square a WWE Title match. Then he moved on, right? Cause that's his character, right? Nah, he fought for a title match at Wrestlemania. Because he wasn't going to let a loss take away the chance to become WWE Champion. So what is Kofi's character? A man who doesn't let title losses affect him, so much that he doesn't even seek a rematch? Or does he keep fighting to reach that top status against unbelievable odds? And therein lies the problem, WWE doesn't have characters, they have moments occupied by whoever they want in them. Kofi's win at Mania is my favorite moment of the year, might be my favorite wrestling moment of the past decade, but this is shit storytelling. There is no character explanation for Kofi suddenly deciding to give up fighting for the gold he was willing to go through so much to attain. You're leaving out the fact that he fought so hard because he was cheated out of the opportunities thanks to Vince and DB working against him Brock called Kofi out, Kofi accepted the challenge and lost fairly. That was a clear and decisive lost that Kofi f***ed up on. He tried to jump Lesnar and got caught. It is not that he is giving up on the title but more so the fact he knows he has to go back to the drawing board "Going back to the drawing board" being "let's run with the tag belts in memory of our supposedly dead partner while doing the same shtick" while forgetting entirely about the main event. Like, no need to turn bitter & violent, but grow a set. He was at the top and he's happily accepting mediocrity, so why should I accept him if he wants to fight again? At least Jinder tried to fight for championships while they pushed him back down to the jobber/ 24/7 division.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 5, 2019 13:35:05 GMT -5
If I’m Vince and I hear the podcast, why give him any other opportunity to be the guy if he’s just happy to be there?
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Hypnosis
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Post by Hypnosis on Dec 5, 2019 13:43:49 GMT -5
Anyone who goes, "Oh darn, guess it was fun while it lasted" and immediately goes back to tossing pancakes like nothing happened is a bitch. Like, as much as I despise the New Day (and boy do I ever), it was something different and unique, and now we're just going to pretend like it doesn't matter anymore. Plus, they aren't helping the tag scene with their presence; if anything, it hurts an already weak division by making them the only focus. I can’t buy him as a top guy anymore, he’s being happy about being demoted and that’s bullshit. Maybe Big E will be hungrier....for more than just pancakes.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 13:47:14 GMT -5
I can’t buy him as a top guy anymore, he’s being happy about being demoted and that’s bullshit. Maybe Big E will be hungrier....for more than just pancakes. and Becky's mom?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 13:55:19 GMT -5
Like others have said (and in a better way than I could ever put it), why should I care about what a character goes through if they don't give a shit themselves? I think that's a big thing a lot of people just aren't understanding, right now with the story we're not really supposed to feel sorry about Kofi's loss to Brock per his own words. The guy had a clean loss that he understands so he can't make a case for it. It wasn't "face loses so he's out for revenge", it was "babyface lost clean" and regardless of how short the match was that's how the story was presented. He himself even promoted the Lesnar/Rey/Cain stuff and then they announcers made comments about Kofi getting "back on the road." But that's the thing with this company. It's conditioned people to think that unless they have a big segment, angle or something then it doesn't matter.
On the real, I don't think there's anything Kofi could have done and said after that Lesnar loss that would have been good for him. If so then we need to bring to the table something he could have said (that's within his own control) that doesn't make him look negative but the truth is nah, he's stuck no matter what he says. If he whined for a title match then he can't make a case for himself and he looks like a manchild, if he gets back on the road and starts from the bottom up you get people insulting him in this thread, if he says nothing people question why he's quiet. It's a no win scenario for Kofi.
The reality is they switched storylines after his loss, Xavier got injured and then he got another title. The "Cain/Rey factor" and Xavier's injury really switched things.
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Post by Ecks Ecks Ringout Ecks Ecks on Dec 5, 2019 14:12:21 GMT -5
"You show up for work and do what is asked of you."
"It's my character."
Love you, Kofi, but you can't divorce these two things. A character is largely defined by their actions and reactions, which are being written by a sheltered old madman who is increasingly losing his grip on how people behave, and what a modern audience finds satisfying. Fans are upset because they can't identify with such a shitty sequence of events--the beloved babyface who fought for a decade to win the big one is annihilated in seconds, then somehow doesn't give a shit?
That's not you. That's not fans making their own narrative. The problem, as always, is Vince.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Dec 5, 2019 14:37:02 GMT -5
If I’m Vince and I hear the podcast, why give him any other opportunity to be the guy if he’s just happy to be there? You don’t. Vince won’t.
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