Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Dec 5, 2019 14:39:44 GMT -5
Maybe Big E will be hungrier....for more than just pancakes. and Becky's mom? She's got it going on
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 14:54:08 GMT -5
Like others have said (and in a better way than I could ever put it), why should I care about what a character goes through if they don't give a shit themselves? I think that's a big thing a lot of people just aren't understanding, right now with the story we're not really supposed to feel sorry about Kofi's loss to Brock per his own words. The guy had a clean loss that he understands so he can't make a case for it. It wasn't "face loses so he's out for revenge", it was "babyface lost clean" and regardless of how short the match was that's how the story was presented. He himself even promoted the Lesnar/Rey/Cain stuff and then they announcers made comments about Kofi getting "back on the road." But that's the thing with this company. It's conditioned people to think that unless they have a big segment, angle or something then it doesn't matter.
On the real, I don't think there's anything Kofi could have done and said after that Lesnar loss that would have been good for him. If so then we need to bring to the table something he could have said (that's within his own control) that doesn't make him look negative but the truth is nah, he's stuck no matter what he says. If he whined for a title match then he can't make a case for himself and he looks like a manchild, if he gets back on the road and starts from the bottom up you get people insulting him in this thread, if he says nothing people question why he's quiet. It's a no win scenario for Kofi.
The reality is they switched storylines after his loss, Xavier got injured and then he got another title. The "Cain/Rey factor" and Xavier's injury really switched things.
Nah, anything other than seemingly not giving a damn about losing the title that he repeatedly told us he grinded for would have been better received than not even mentioning it onscreen. The aftermath has been universally panned because a story that good deserved a better sense of closure. A five minute promo where he thanks the fans and promises to be back would have gone a long way. Hell, have the Revival (or whoever had the tag titles, I forget) or a singles heel come out to make fun of him. That way you can transition him right into his next feud without the weird "Why doesn't he care?" vibe hanging in the air.
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Post by Tenshigure on Dec 5, 2019 14:58:30 GMT -5
You're lying to yourself if you think the WWE were ever going to do anything other than send Kofi back down the card after that loss. Plans didn't "change," they were set in stone the moment they got Cain Velasquez to put pen to paper; Xavier's injury just gave them further justification behind ensuring he won't be back in that Main Event picture for the forseeable future, and the audience will have completely cooled off by the time Xavier returns to care.
The ONLY way I see him ever getting a shot again is if Big E gets his singles shot.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 15:03:19 GMT -5
Nah, anything other than seemingly not giving a damn about losing the title that he repeatedly told us he grinded for would have been better received than not even mentioning it onscreen. The aftermath has been universally panned because a story that good deserved a better sense of closure. A five minute promo where he thanks the fans and promises to be back would have gone a long way. Hell, have the Revival (or whoever had the tag titles, I forget) or a singles heel come out to make fun of him. That way you can transition him right into his next feud without the weird "Why doesn't he care?" vibe hanging in the air. Nah, I don't believe it. This goes back to my previous comment about what it'll take. You're saying he needs to cut a big segment apologizing and such? Does he need a few lines about it on screen? A SDL promo from him? That's what I'm not understanding. Exactly what does he need to do here that's within his own control? Like, the 5 minute promo and such are you talking about on SDL or just in general? As in if he cut a promo during this interview would that be fine or would it have to be on SDL because that's the only thing that matters?
Judging these comments I really think people would only be satisfied if he cut a promo on SDL directly after the loss which goes back to Kofi's comments about him not being the guy to write the stuff. Without that, no matter what he said here, there's nothing he could have done.
You're lying to yourself if you think the WWE were ever going to do anything other than send Kofi back down the card after that loss. Plans didn't "change," they were set in stone the moment they got Cain Velasquez to put pen to paper; Xavier's injury just gave them further justification behind ensuring he won't be back in that Main Event picture for the forseeable future, and the audience will have completely cooled off by the time Xavier returns to care. The ONLY way I see him ever getting a shot again is if Big E gets his singles shot. That's false and not true. That's just some fan belief because they've got their own preconceived notion about what happened and they can't fathom anything else. It's like the people who said Kofi would never be world champion nor get that WM match even though all the signs were pointing towards it. It took the company making the match in order for people to believe it. We know for a fact that this company changes things constantly down to when shows air. Hell, we legit saw Xavier and Big E teaming against guys New Day went against in that tag tournament directly after Kofi's Lesnar loss. It's pretty clear that was supposed to be Xavier's spot regardless if people dislike Kofi's position or not.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 15:15:39 GMT -5
Nah, anything other than seemingly not giving a damn about losing the title that he repeatedly told us he grinded for would have been better received than not even mentioning it onscreen. The aftermath has been universally panned because a story that good deserved a better sense of closure. A five minute promo where he thanks the fans and promises to be back would have gone a long way. Hell, have the Revival (or whoever had the tag titles, I forget) or a singles heel come out to make fun of him. That way you can transition him right into his next feud without the weird "Why doesn't he care?" vibe hanging in the air. Nah, I don't believe it. This goes back to my previous comment about what it'll take. You're saying he needs to cut a big segment apologizing and such? Does he need a few lines about it on screen? A SDL promo from him? That's what I'm not understanding. Exactly what does he need to do here that's within his own control? Like, the 5 minute promo and such are you talking about on SDL or just in general? As in if he cut a promo during this interview would that be fine or would it have to be on SDL because that's the only thing that matters?
Judging these comments I really think people would only be satisfied if he cut a promo on SDL directly after the loss which goes back to Kofi's comments about him not being the guy to write the stuff. Without that, no matter what he said here, there's nothing he could have done.
You think all the alternatives mentioned in the thread would've received the same level of vitriol as the nothingness that happened? Man, I don't know what to say other than I think you're dead wrong. Everything gets criticized to a degree, yes, but it just would not have been on this same level. 5 minutes. He admits that he wasn't properly prepared and he got caught. He thanks the fans, then charges up the babyface fire that he showed he's SO f***ing good at and vows to be back. Enter Revival/Drew McIntyre/whoever to start the next feud. There's some proper closure and the start of the next chapter. @ your last part.. Well, yeah. I'm criticizing the booking here if that wasn't clear. Shit left an awful taste in my mouth and took me from watching every now and then to catching a PPV if I'm burnt out on football that day.
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Post by Cela on Dec 5, 2019 15:27:31 GMT -5
These company man interviews are part of the reason I cancelled my sub.
Yes, a character can be happy go lucky, but title shot Kofi was significantly different from Pancake Kofi. Acknowledge the frikkin shift.
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Post by Tenshigure on Dec 5, 2019 15:33:08 GMT -5
That's false and not true. That's just some fan belief because they've got their own preconceived notion about what happened and they can't fathom anything else. Point to ANY proof that they were going to give Kofi a rematch against Lesnar. The man straight vanished after 'Dirty Dancing' jumped into Lesnar's arm to eat that F5 and L, then was gone as it IMMEDIATELY cut to the Cain & Rey show. There isn't a shred of evidence out there that the original intent was to give Kofi redemption, and the consolation of being sent back to the tag division is straight delusional. You're perfectly fine with the outcome of his loss and his "humble attitude towards it all", and that's okay. MANY of us are, myself included, are not okay with it. It's poor writing, and Kofi clearly doesn't have the fire and fight in him to push getting back into that position. I'll let Daniel Bryan take it from here: There's being humble but taking his loss with class, and then there's...whatever the hell Kofi is doing. More power to him, but I have severe doubts that he'll ever have the same kind of crowd backing ever again if this is the fallout of a defeat.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 15:47:07 GMT -5
Nah, I don't believe it. This goes back to my previous comment about what it'll take. You're saying he needs to cut a big segment apologizing and such? Does he need a few lines about it on screen? A SDL promo from him? That's what I'm not understanding. Exactly what does he need to do here that's within his own control? Like, the 5 minute promo and such are you talking about on SDL or just in general? As in if he cut a promo during this interview would that be fine or would it have to be on SDL because that's the only thing that matters?
Judging these comments I really think people would only be satisfied if he cut a promo on SDL directly after the loss which goes back to Kofi's comments about him not being the guy to write the stuff. Without that, no matter what he said here, there's nothing he could have done.
You think all the alternatives mentioned in the thread would've received the same level of vitriol as the nothingness that happened? Man, I don't know what to say other than I think you're dead wrong. Everything gets criticized to a degree, yes, but it just would not have been on this same level. 5 minutes. He admits that he wasn't properly prepared and he got caught. He thanks the fans, then charges up the babyface fire that he showed he's SO f***ing good at and vows to be back. Enter Revival/Drew McIntyre/whoever to start the next feud. There's some proper closure and the start of the next chapter. @ your last part.. Well, yeah. I'm criticizing the booking here if that wasn't clear. Shit left an awful taste in my mouth and took me from watching every now and then to catching a PPV if I'm burnt out on football that day. Yeah, I think people would shit on it regardless given people have been shitting on pretty much most of this Kofi rise since it started. Sans the WM win everything else has had people criticizing it. I'm just not going to believe that if they did this one thing it'll suddenly be ok with people because that's just not how most fans are when it comes to things they dislike. When it gets to a point where they're saying it completely invalidates a reign? Nah, I'm personally not going to take that seriously. To the 5 minutes thing that goes back to my previous comment. Kofi's mentioned his loss to Lesnar prior to this, it's not something that suddenly came out of nowhere with this interview. The issue is WWE's conditioned the fans to think if it doesn't happen through a live segment on SD, Raw or a PPV then it doesn't matter so yeah that goes back to Kofi's comment as him not being the one who writes the show. He's commented on the Lesnar loss and he basically did all the stuff you're saying he didn't do. So you're saying it doesn't matter unless it's on a segment which is what I'm getting at.
Point to ANY proof that they were going to give Kofi a rematch against Lesnar. The man straight vanished after 'Dirty Dancing' jumped into Lesnar's arm to eat that F5 and L, then was gone as it IMMEDIATELY cut to the Cain & Rey show. There isn't a shred of evidence out there that the original intent was to give Kofi redemption, and the consolation of being sent back to the tag division is straight delusional. You're perfectly fine with the outcome of his loss and his "humble attitude towards it all", and that's okay. MANY of us are, myself included, are not okay with it. It's poor writing, and Kofi clearly doesn't have the fire and fight in him to push getting back into that position. I'll let Daniel Bryan take it from here: There's being humble but taking his loss with class, and then there's...whatever the hell Kofi is doing. More power to him, but I have severe doubts that he'll ever have the same kind of crowd backing ever again if this is the fallout of a defeat. This is my entire point. You and many others are completely forgetting the entire storyline post-Lesnar. This is exactly what happened.
- October 4: Kofi loses to Lesnar. Cain shows up. - October 4: Kofi cuts a post-match interview about the Lesnar loss where he says he's not done with Lesnar, says he's he's got a lot of emotions bottled up, says he needs to get back on the path and recover like he always does, thanks his supporters, says he's interested in this Cain/Brock thing to see where it goes, says he's not surprised that Cain's after the title because it's the illustrious WWE Title, says he needs to figure out how to get back into the title picture and no matter what if he has to get to Cain to get the title he'll do that, says a lot. - October 11: Kofi and New Day beat Styles and The OC. All through the match the announcers are saying that Kofi's getting back on the road post-Lesnar loss. - October 18: New Day w/Heavy Machinery beat Revival w/Ziggler and Roode. Kofi's watching his boys wrestle. - October 21: Kofi's wrestling Orton (guy he feuded with prior to Lesnar) at the Sydney house show. Xavier's teaming with Woods against The Revival and Woods gets injured. - October 25: Kofi and Big E are wrestling Roode and Ziggler (the guys Woods and E were wrestling a week prior), Kofi's now taking Xavier's spot. - October 25: Post-loss, Kofi mentioned that a month ago he was WWE Champion and now Woods is hurt and they lost their match, he says it's hard, New Day says that they'll win that Crown Jewel tag cup.
If you seriously think they didn't change plans here, after they straight up posted a video saying Kofi isn't done with Lesnar as he's saying all he's said then I don't know what to tell you because that's just basic context clues. He's clearly been inserted into Xavier's spot after the injury.
This goes back to what I'm saying. All of this, people just aren't going to be satisfied because rather than putting it all together and realizing that plans changed they want a 5 minute segment laying it all out for them. If that's what they want then hey just go on and say it, nothing wrong with that but we can't be acting like everything is going to plan when things clearly aren't. That's just not paying attention to what's being presented to us.
Lastly to the Bryan thing...that's entirely Kofi's point and what I've been saying. His loss to Lesnar is not, I can't stress it enough, a cheap shot. Making this out to be some travesty or something completely vile as to how he lost just isn't the narrative compared to Bryan who was legit blindsided. We can't be comparing the way these 2 loss the title especially when one guy was a heel and the other's entire character has been built upon being positive and rising up from the bottom after taking an L.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 15:57:06 GMT -5
Champions don't "settle".
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 5, 2019 16:54:11 GMT -5
Poor guy put in a position to have to defend terrible writing. Shame.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Dec 5, 2019 17:15:17 GMT -5
I think worse than him not caring in kayfabe
Xavier and Big E did everything they could ,including a gruesome tag title gauntlet match,for Kofi.
And now he just brushs their efforts asid
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 17:55:31 GMT -5
You think all the alternatives mentioned in the thread would've received the same level of vitriol as the nothingness that happened? Man, I don't know what to say other than I think you're dead wrong. Everything gets criticized to a degree, yes, but it just would not have been on this same level. 5 minutes. He admits that he wasn't properly prepared and he got caught. He thanks the fans, then charges up the babyface fire that he showed he's SO f***ing good at and vows to be back. Enter Revival/Drew McIntyre/whoever to start the next feud. There's some proper closure and the start of the next chapter. @ your last part.. Well, yeah. I'm criticizing the booking here if that wasn't clear. Shit left an awful taste in my mouth and took me from watching every now and then to catching a PPV if I'm burnt out on football that day. Yeah, I think people would shit on it regardless given people have been shitting on pretty much most of this Kofi rise since it started. Sans the WM win everything else has had people criticizing it. I'm just not going to believe that if they did this one thing it'll suddenly be ok with people because that's just not how most fans are when it comes to things they dislike. When it gets to a point where they're saying it completely invalidates a reign? Nah, I'm personally not going to take that seriously. To the 5 minutes thing that goes back to my previous comment. Kofi's mentioned his loss to Lesnar prior to this, it's not something that suddenly came out of nowhere with this interview. The issue is WWE's conditioned the fans to think if it doesn't happen through a live segment on SD, Raw or a PPV then it doesn't matter so yeah that goes back to Kofi's comment as him not being the one who writes the show. He's commented on the Lesnar loss and he basically did all the stuff you're saying he didn't do. So you're saying it doesn't matter unless it's on a segment which is what I'm getting at.
Point to ANY proof that they were going to give Kofi a rematch against Lesnar. The man straight vanished after 'Dirty Dancing' jumped into Lesnar's arm to eat that F5 and L, then was gone as it IMMEDIATELY cut to the Cain & Rey show. There isn't a shred of evidence out there that the original intent was to give Kofi redemption, and the consolation of being sent back to the tag division is straight delusional. You're perfectly fine with the outcome of his loss and his "humble attitude towards it all", and that's okay. MANY of us are, myself included, are not okay with it. It's poor writing, and Kofi clearly doesn't have the fire and fight in him to push getting back into that position. I'll let Daniel Bryan take it from here: There's being humble but taking his loss with class, and then there's...whatever the hell Kofi is doing. More power to him, but I have severe doubts that he'll ever have the same kind of crowd backing ever again if this is the fallout of a defeat. This is my entire point. You and many others are completely forgetting the entire storyline post-Lesnar. This is exactly what happened.
- October 4: Kofi loses to Lesnar. Cain shows up. - October 4: Kofi cuts a post-match interview about the Lesnar loss where he says he's not done with Lesnar, says he's he's got a lot of emotions bottled up, says he needs to get back on the path and recover like he always does, thanks his supporters, says he's interested in this Cain/Brock thing to see where it goes, says he's not surprised that Cain's after the title because it's the illustrious WWE Title, says he needs to figure out how to get back into the title picture and no matter what if he has to get to Cain to get the title he'll do that, says a lot. - October 11: Kofi and New Day beat Styles and The OC. All through the match the announcers are saying that Kofi's getting back on the road post-Lesnar loss. - October 18: New Day w/Heavy Machinery beat Revival w/Ziggler and Roode. Kofi's watching his boys wrestle. - October 21: Kofi's wrestling Orton (guy he feuded with prior to Lesnar) at the Sydney house show. Xavier's teaming with Woods against The Revival and Woods gets injured. - October 25: Kofi and Big E are wrestling Roode and Ziggler (the guys Woods and E were wrestling a week prior), Kofi's now taking Xavier's spot. - October 25: Post-loss, Kofi mentioned that a month ago he was WWE Champion and now Woods is hurt and they lost their match, he says it's hard, New Day says that they'll win that Crown Jewel tag cup.
If you seriously think they didn't change plans here, after they straight up posted a video saying Kofi isn't done with Lesnar as he's saying all he's said then I don't know what to tell you because that's just basic context clues. He's clearly been inserted into Xavier's spot after the injury.
This goes back to what I'm saying. All of this, people just aren't going to be satisfied because rather than putting it all together and realizing that plans changed they want a 5 minute segment laying it all out for them. If that's what they want then hey just go on and say it, nothing wrong with that but we can't be acting like everything is going to plan when things clearly aren't. That's just not paying attention to what's being presented to us.
Lastly to the Bryan thing...that's entirely Kofi's point and what I've been saying. His loss to Lesnar is not, I can't stress it enough, a cheap shot. Making this out to be some travesty or something completely vile as to how he lost just isn't the narrative compared to Bryan who was legit blindsided. We can't be comparing the way these 2 loss the title especially when one guy was a heel and the other's entire character has been built upon being positive and rising up from the bottom after taking an L.
They booked Kofi to lose. They have complete control over who wins and loses and how they do so. If they wanted to protect Kofi in any way they could have in the match. If they wanted to give him a drive to get his title back they could have. They chose not to. They were not forced to put Kofi back in the tag title scene, Big E could easily be involved with a singles feud right now. You can say things like injuries forced their hand but that was a choice they made. Kofi going back to tag team wrestling instead of going after the main title or a singles feud was a decision they made and were not forced to do. Ultimately I think the disconnect between you and others in this thread stems from how differently you're approaching it vs others. You seem to be wondering what more could Kofi do now that this has happened and been booked, whereas other people are stating the booking could be changed to create a better story. You're going off the story already told. I also think it's disingenuous to state that people have complained since his title win and compare that to this reaction like they are equal or that this reaction was unavoidable. A minority got tired during his run and maybe a majority by the end felt it was time it was over but now the majority of people here are calling him a bitch. That is a major shift and not at all reflective of the reaction received when he won the title or his run during it. I believe they are stating his character is a bitch because the story they are telling is not a compelling or interesting one with him. Most people's responses here boil down to one major thing: they should have written and used him better after his title loss. You can state why this makes the most logical sense for his character but it's wrestling. It's neither logical nor can you expect people to be fully logical when Kofi's title reign was clearly a huge emotional deal to a good amount of members of this board. Not to mention that character shifts are generally interesting and should come after a catalyst like losing the major title in 8 seconds after working for it for over a decade. If this doesn't cause his character to change and adapt, then nothing will and all we are left with is the same character we've had for a decade with nothing lasting to show for having won the title. That sticks in people's craw and makes them bitter since they were invested in the story and they didn't get a satisfying end.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 18:26:24 GMT -5
Yeah, I think people would shit on it regardless given people have been shitting on pretty much most of this Kofi rise since it started. Sans the WM win everything else has had people criticizing it. I'm just not going to believe that if they did this one thing it'll suddenly be ok with people because that's just not how most fans are when it comes to things they dislike. When it gets to a point where they're saying it completely invalidates a reign? Nah, I'm personally not going to take that seriously. To the 5 minutes thing that goes back to my previous comment. Kofi's mentioned his loss to Lesnar prior to this, it's not something that suddenly came out of nowhere with this interview. The issue is WWE's conditioned the fans to think if it doesn't happen through a live segment on SD, Raw or a PPV then it doesn't matter so yeah that goes back to Kofi's comment as him not being the one who writes the show. He's commented on the Lesnar loss and he basically did all the stuff you're saying he didn't do. So you're saying it doesn't matter unless it's on a segment which is what I'm getting at.
This is my entire point. You and many others are completely forgetting the entire storyline post-Lesnar. This is exactly what happened.
- October 4: Kofi loses to Lesnar. Cain shows up. - October 4: Kofi cuts a post-match interview about the Lesnar loss where he says he's not done with Lesnar, says he's he's got a lot of emotions bottled up, says he needs to get back on the path and recover like he always does, thanks his supporters, says he's interested in this Cain/Brock thing to see where it goes, says he's not surprised that Cain's after the title because it's the illustrious WWE Title, says he needs to figure out how to get back into the title picture and no matter what if he has to get to Cain to get the title he'll do that, says a lot. - October 11: Kofi and New Day beat Styles and The OC. All through the match the announcers are saying that Kofi's getting back on the road post-Lesnar loss. - October 18: New Day w/Heavy Machinery beat Revival w/Ziggler and Roode. Kofi's watching his boys wrestle. - October 21: Kofi's wrestling Orton (guy he feuded with prior to Lesnar) at the Sydney house show. Xavier's teaming with Woods against The Revival and Woods gets injured. - October 25: Kofi and Big E are wrestling Roode and Ziggler (the guys Woods and E were wrestling a week prior), Kofi's now taking Xavier's spot. - October 25: Post-loss, Kofi mentioned that a month ago he was WWE Champion and now Woods is hurt and they lost their match, he says it's hard, New Day says that they'll win that Crown Jewel tag cup.
If you seriously think they didn't change plans here, after they straight up posted a video saying Kofi isn't done with Lesnar as he's saying all he's said then I don't know what to tell you because that's just basic context clues. He's clearly been inserted into Xavier's spot after the injury.
This goes back to what I'm saying. All of this, people just aren't going to be satisfied because rather than putting it all together and realizing that plans changed they want a 5 minute segment laying it all out for them. If that's what they want then hey just go on and say it, nothing wrong with that but we can't be acting like everything is going to plan when things clearly aren't. That's just not paying attention to what's being presented to us.
Lastly to the Bryan thing...that's entirely Kofi's point and what I've been saying. His loss to Lesnar is not, I can't stress it enough, a cheap shot. Making this out to be some travesty or something completely vile as to how he lost just isn't the narrative compared to Bryan who was legit blindsided. We can't be comparing the way these 2 loss the title especially when one guy was a heel and the other's entire character has been built upon being positive and rising up from the bottom after taking an L.
They booked Kofi to lose. They have complete control over who wins and loses and how they do so. If they wanted to protect Kofi in any way they could have in the match. If they wanted to give him a drive to get his title back they could have. They chose not to. They were not forced to put Kofi back in the tag title scene, Big E could easily be involved with a singles feud right now. You can say things like injuries forced their hand but that was a choice they made. Kofi going back to tag team wrestling instead of going after the main title or a singles feud was a decision they made and were not forced to do. Ultimately I think the disconnect between you and others in this thread stems from how differently you're approaching it vs others. You seem to be wondering what more could Kofi do now that this has happened and been booked, whereas other people are stating the booking could be changed to create a better story. You're going off the story already told.I also think it's disingenuous to state that people have complained since his title win and compare that to this reaction like they are equal or that this reaction was unavoidable. A minority got tired during his run and maybe a majority by the end felt it was time it was over but now the majority of people here are calling him a bitch. That is a major shift and not at all reflective of the reaction received when he won the title or his run during it. I believe they are stating his character is a bitch because the story they are telling is not a compelling or interesting one with him. Most people's responses here boil down to one major thing: they should have written and used him better after his title loss. You can state why this makes the most logical sense for his character but it's wrestling. It's neither logical nor can you expect people to be fully logical when Kofi's title reign was clearly a huge emotional deal to a good amount of members of this board. Not to mention that character shifts are generally interesting and should come after a catalyst like losing the major title in 8 seconds after working for it for over a decade. If this doesn't cause his character to change and adapt, then nothing will and all we are left with is the same character we've had for a decade with nothing lasting to show for having won the title. That sticks in people's craw and makes them bitter since they were invested in the story and they didn't get a satisfying end. Man I'm gonna be honest, I don't expect most fans to be logical when it comes to a lot of stuff these days when it comes to wrestling or at least remember everything that goes on given there's a lot. A lot of people online these days put too much of their feelings into debates and me I don't do that as it's not about how I feel, I'm speaking on facts. If people do that then hey that's you, that's not me. Kofi for example, a lot of what people wanted Kofi to do he actually did in that post-Lesnar match video aka the "damn I've got a lot of emotions bottled up, it sucks, I want the title again, if I gotta go through Cain to get it I'll do it, I gotta keep getting back on that horse" and etc. The issue is he didn't do it on SD which goes back to my initial point of what'll satisfy people and the truth is unless it's in a promo on SDL people wouldn't have been satisfied by it. When it's a random Daniel Bryan promo video that gets people hyped it's raved because it's a positive but when it's a Kofi video talking about his Lesnar loss and how he wants to get back into the title picture it's a different story even though that's clearly helping the aftermath for Kofi. At the end of the day if it'll be better for people if it happened on SD, if that's what it'll take people to believe it then say that's what I'll take but we can't act like he didn't at least do it in character because he did. Maybe people didn't see that post-Lesnar video and if they did see that video then hey, that's another discussion.
There's a difference between "I don't like this but it happened" and "that never happened regardless of my opinion of it." Me, it sucks he lost that way but I can see what they were laying down prior to Xavier's injuries because that's just standard A to B clues. If people don't see that then hey they just don't see it.
I can get people being bitter, believe me I'm a black man and seeing Kofi win was amazing given the color of his skin that a lot can't relate to but at the end of the day my feelings for that isn't going to suddenly override certain things like Kofi cutting a video saying he's still after the title and then all of a sudden it changes. At the end of the day sure, we can all wish things were different but that doesn't mean everything that doesn't go your way is automatically trash nor does that mean he didn't say something about his feelings for that title in character.
Lastly to the "they" stuff, Kofi summed it up better than me when he cut that interview. He doesn't control everything, he can only control what he's given and granted he did his best with it.
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Post by brettappedout (BLM) on Dec 5, 2019 18:40:33 GMT -5
I still believe Kofi had an awesome title reign and his winning at Wrestlemania 35 is a arguably a Top 10 moment in Wrestlemania history imo, but like I said early that answer just came off weak and I'll add it actually made me feel kind of sad. Dude should've pushed back harder. Again no Twitter rant or ripping Vince/creative, just something strong then it's not my character crap.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 19:04:21 GMT -5
For me the biggest crime was this was the big FOX debut with over 4million viewers, you should be making the current champion look like he belongs with Brock. And if you're not, you better have a good follow up to it. If I were a casual viewer and saw that, I'd be laughing about the fact that this guy was the WWE Champion. I feel bad for Kofi because it made him look a joke. Didn't Brock have a 20 minute match with Daniel Bryan last year? The only excuse for jobbing Kofi in 5 seconds was to have a story and they didn't.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Dec 5, 2019 19:14:37 GMT -5
My favourite part of Avengers: Endgame is when the superheroes simply accepted that Thanos was just too powerful to defeat, even after the moments when they gave it their best shot to beat the bad guy, and then didn't bother to undo Thanos' actions that caused intergalactic mass genocide.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 5, 2019 19:27:42 GMT -5
Common dedicated The Bitch in You to Kofi Kingston.
I see the bitch in you when you don't speak your mind The bitch in you, looking me in my eyes lyin I see the bitch in you, simply hard, you find The bitch in you but yo it's coming out
A ho told me you was her favorite wrestler So what? So I had to slap her.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Dec 5, 2019 19:40:30 GMT -5
I'm with Kofi in that after reading this thread I'm no clearer on whether people are angry at Kofi the man, the character or just WWE booking. WWE's booking I can get, Kofi's character is fictional and the real-life Kofi has no control over either of the other two. I'm just talking about him strictly as a character. The real life guy's obviously awesome. Like others have said (and in a better way than I could ever put it), why should I care about what a character goes through if they don't give a shit themselves? But that's where I'm confused... the character isn't real, so why is much of the criticism aimed at Kofi? It's the WWE who made all these decisions. Him saying that he turns up and plays a character is an entirely factual statement. Maybe I'm just misreading the thread, but it reads like people shitting on Kit Harrington because Jon Snow turned into a dolt. My own take would be that Kofi is far from the first person to drop the title and disappear from contention for several months. His was more abrupt than it should've been, because they hit the reset button with Brock for the Saudi show. But he's still been booked strongly with Big E, and I fully expect him to be challenging for world titles in the near future. Also, this continual describing of people as a bitch is cringeworthy.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 5, 2019 20:20:45 GMT -5
Sadly, it was pretty easy to see this was always going to be what they did with Kofi post loss. I haven't watched in over a year and called it just reading the results that night.
They can never take that reign away though.
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Post by Starshine on Dec 5, 2019 20:21:39 GMT -5
I'm just talking about him strictly as a character. The real life guy's obviously awesome. Like others have said (and in a better way than I could ever put it), why should I care about what a character goes through if they don't give a shit themselves? But that's where I'm confused... the character isn't real, so why is much of the criticism aimed at Kofi? It's the WWE who made all these decisions. Him saying that he turns up and plays a character is an entirely factual statement. Maybe I'm just misreading the thread, but it reads like people shitting on Kit Harrington because Jon Snow turned into a dolt. My own take would be that Kofi is far from the first person to drop the title and disappear from contention for several months. His was more abrupt than it should've been, because they hit the reset button with Brock for the Saudi show. But he's still been booked strongly with Big E, and I fully expect him to be challenging for world titles in the near future. Also, this continual describing of people as a bitch is cringeworthy. Because Kofi is the guy who gave the jumbled non-answer to the question. It's literally his words that we have the problem with, on-screen Kofi isn't rationalising the crappy writing. Also no, this has never happened to this degree, at least not in recent history. We've never seen a top face take such an embarrassing loss and fall into irrelevancy 7 days later. Usually this sort of loss is reserved for some sort of sharp gimmick change, new angle, or the like, not to just return things to the status quo. Had Kofi been half competitive, then it probably wouldn't feel like such a sting. But kayfabe wise, no one with any sort of competitive edge should be settled with such an embarrassing defeat, especially not following the most successful run in their life. It doesn't make any sense. While that's not Kofi's fault, he's also not helping with how he's defending it. Again, look at how John Cena has managed similarly difficult questions in the past. There are ways to be critical of your own company while also propping it up, and pushing yourself above it all at the same time. Maybe he's just not cut out for that side of the business.
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