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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 1:26:44 GMT -5
The dress code thing doesn't seem like a direct WWE jab. It's just corporate fluff... which goes in line with Tony Khan describing the Dark Order as an evil corporation. To me it mostly seems like a WWE jab just because everything else thus far has been and it's still a very easy connection to make.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Apr 9, 2020 2:00:17 GMT -5
The dress code thing doesn't seem like a direct WWE jab. It's just corporate fluff... which goes in line with Tony Khan describing the Dark Order as an evil corporation. To me it mostly seems like a WWE jab just because everything else thus far has been and it's still a very easy connection to make. Literally because he made a big reference the first day now everything must be. People are just connecting things that there isnt because one segment. At this point it tells more about what people think of Vince than the segments itself.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 3:11:29 GMT -5
To me it mostly seems like a WWE jab just because everything else thus far has been and it's still a very easy connection to make. Literally because he made a big reference the first day now everything must be. People are just connecting things that there isnt because one segment. At this point it tells more about what people think of Vince than the segments itself. The, "Old man who doubted me," was a WWE refernece. The Sister Abigail tease was a WWE reference. The sneezing thing was a WWE reference. The eating in front of people while refusing to let them do the same was a WWE reference. The freaking out over someone showing they're tired was a WWE reference. The Mr. thing was more than likely a WWE reference. Why is it a stretch of logic to believe the tie thing was as well, when there's a direct well known thing WWE did that can be directly tied to it? If it doesn't bother you or whatever then cool, fine, but it's not like the people bringing this up are pulling something out of thin air here. Pretty much everything Brodie's done can be directly traced back to WWE, it's not like you have to look very hard to make the connections.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 9, 2020 3:13:16 GMT -5
I'm still digging the vignettes. I don't want to throw them under the bus as TNA tactic, as I think they do absolutely stand on their own merits and make for an interesting and (so far) consistent character. "Consistent" is a good word for it. The vignettes take a character type that we have seen in wrestling - a stable leader who brutally punishes failure - and explore what it's like to be around that person outside of a wrestling ring. Right. They are Vince-isms, but they totally fit the context of the character pretty perfectly. Cults crush peoples' wills, and I liked the detail of him granting favor to the one who wore a tie, since you're getting the carrot as well as the stick.
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Apr 9, 2020 4:32:57 GMT -5
At this point I just kinda feel bad for Evil Uno and Tiny Kratos.
Right now The Dark Order is nothing more than the Vince Parody Hour.
Uno should've just been the de factor leader.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Apr 9, 2020 5:29:27 GMT -5
The Vince references are personal preference, but even if they removed the McTropes entirely, I'd want his character to stay an unhinged and abusive leader. I think it's scarier and more in line with his past gimmick ideas, and it'd be kinda lame (and very TNA) if they made him a dollar store Bray Wyatt. I don't want him spouting vague creepy platitudes and having his minions under a spell, I want him ruling through power and fear. It's a cult based in wrestling, and anyone who joins would likely be attracted by a show of strength. Once they're on the inside, it may dawn on them just how deranged Brodie is, but by that point they're in too deep. I dig the fact that he wears a suit for the vignettes and wilder gear for his ring appearances. It's very secret-society-ish, having a corporate front for PR purposes and then putting on weird attire for the Wednesday night ritual murders. Surely in the context of pro-wrestling, the bits in the ring are the ones everyone sees? So he has the corporate front behind closed doors, and is a f***ing lunatic in public.
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Post by KofiMania on Apr 9, 2020 5:58:58 GMT -5
Literally because he made a big reference the first day now everything must be. People are just connecting things that there isnt because one segment. At this point it tells more about what people think of Vince than the segments itself. The, "Old man who doubted me," was a WWE refernece. The Sister Abigail tease was a WWE reference. The sneezing thing was a WWE reference. The eating in front of people while refusing to let them do the same was a WWE reference. The freaking out over someone showing they're tired was a WWE reference. The Mr. thing was more than likely a WWE reference. Why is it a stretch of logic to believe the tie thing was as well, when there's a direct well known thing WWE did that can be directly tied to it? If it doesn't bother you or whatever then cool, fine, but it's not like the people bringing this up are pulling something out of thin air here. Pretty much everything Brodie's done can be directly traced back to WWE, it's not like you have to look very hard to make the connections. Yeah people saying it’s only the sneezing are fooling themselves. He’s also wearing broken suits (different color jacket and pants) which Vince seems to always wear nowadays.
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Post by rajaah on Apr 9, 2020 7:22:31 GMT -5
So, wait, is Evil Uno Kevin Dunn? I've had a theory for a bit now that Evil Uno is Kevin Dunn, Stu Grayson is Brock Lesnar(compare their movesets), and the rest of the DO is the WWE Main Roster who get treated poorly compared to Brock.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 9, 2020 7:31:39 GMT -5
I said it in the the Mania thread and I'll say it here
If Bray Wyatt can literally have a Satan Vince Puppet that says "This is such good shit!", then I really don't see the issue with Brodie Lee having trace amounts of Vince McMahon in his character to exencuate being a megalomaniacal cult leader, and once again I must stress, doing so in a positive way to get the character over, in the midst of a push.
This isn't a "Haha f*** Vince" character, he's taking things that have been said and are using them to his advantage to MAKE a compelling character based off of that and more which he has experienced or heard from in his life.
I'm kinda getting tired of coming in this thread and seeing "The Vince McMahon parody hour", like the point has been missed grandly if that's what we're calling Dark Order now. I get if it's not everyone's thing, but acting like it's detrimental to the character or that "He's Vince and nothing else" is downright ridiculous.
Are wrestlers not supposed to take inspiration from movies when they make characters? Were wrestlers just not supposed to take inspiration from various performers and speakers like Muhammad Ali for their own character inspirations, promos, and variations? Why is it all of the sudden an issue when someone is taking from a well that is so damn deep it is SO EASY to make a character inspired off of his mannerisms in Vince McMahon? Especially when his own company now with Wyatt is doing the exact same thing and doing it in a way that takes the piss to him instead of Brodie's way where he's literally just building a legit character he WANTS TO GET OVER off of the mannerisms outside of the opening promo shot.
I don't know, I just don't get it, in the end I just don't think there is going to be pleasing some people and this will be "AEW being petty" or it just not working in their opinions or whatever, but it truly is tiring to see how people are just taking the boots to this and acting like it is "ALL VINCE" and 'The Dark Order are absolutely ruined" and I just can't look at it any other way than severe hyperbole at this point.
But hey, it's nice to see not everyone hates it, it's just been really weird to see it such a major talking point here, of all things.
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FinalGwen
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Post by FinalGwen on Apr 9, 2020 7:36:59 GMT -5
I didn't really notice much of a parallel with Vince this time round. Seemed more in line with the outward-facing cult idea, the thing we've seen from the beginning that they're promising to make you a better version of yourself, and if they don't look like the best then it counters that branding.
I would like to see a bit more of their sinister side, and we'd probably have had a bit more of that if Uno and Stu were available to do the tapings, but I think there's more to this than just Vince.
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Post by Yamashita Enforcement Division on Apr 9, 2020 8:33:55 GMT -5
The trick of it is, Brodie Lee has just spent literal years stuck and being slowly disillusioned by a cult that refused to let him leave, he has been very close to the source material he (and the other people helping work on the Dark Order) has available to him, and is clearly cutting close to the bone on the experience he just left. Which is why you can see so much WWE in the gimmick of corporate cult, that and wrestling as an industry is more open to the fans of wrestling than other corporate cults, which I'm sure some cult podcast listener would have a field day with these cult practices and have a dozen other jumping on points.
We see it because we can look inside, but wrestling is not as unique as we like to pretend.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Apr 9, 2020 9:33:45 GMT -5
I'd be more inclined to think that this is a straight Vince parody if Brodie was shouting "dammit" and calling people "pal", as well as saying "no chance in hell" at every turn... which he isn't doing thankfully.
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Post by markymark on Apr 9, 2020 9:52:12 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 9:53:32 GMT -5
I thought the sneeze part was a clever joke, haven't really seen anything else that just resemblances Vinny. Just a T-Rex among smaller carnivores. In cool costumes and sci-fi/dark settings. And man truck squashes.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 9, 2020 9:53:57 GMT -5
Literally because he made a big reference the first day now everything must be. People are just connecting things that there isnt because one segment. At this point it tells more about what people think of Vince than the segments itself. The, "Old man who doubted me," was a WWE refernece. The Sister Abigail tease was a WWE reference. The sneezing thing was a WWE reference. The eating in front of people while refusing to let them do the same was a WWE reference. The freaking out over someone showing they're tired was a WWE reference. The Mr. thing was more than likely a WWE reference. Why is it a stretch of logic to believe the tie thing was as well, when there's a direct well known thing WWE did that can be directly tied to it? Jericho had former WWE ref Marty Elias on TiJ last week and he claims he got fired for arriving to the arena in a KISS t-shirt which was a dress code violation. That being said, I felt this weeks vignette was a significant improvement over the past few. Even tho it still had the Vince thing, it felt a lot easier to take seriously. Still feels like a disconnect between what’s being presented in ring and what’s being presented backstage tho
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Post by Yamashita Enforcement Division on Apr 9, 2020 10:49:51 GMT -5
The only way to square that circle with Brodie Lee would be for him to wrestle in a suit, which I am all for.
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Apr 9, 2020 10:59:47 GMT -5
At this point I just kinda feel bad for Evil Uno and Tiny Kratos. Right now The Dark Order is nothing more than the Vince Parody Hour. Uno should've just been the de factor leader. I'm going to agree, even though I wasn't a fan of the DO before this. It seems like whatever plan the DO had before have been thrown out because someone decided to poke fun at McMahon. Once they finish with this, will the DO be able to get back on track for what they wanted, or will they become the next Blue World Order and become 'parody-of-the-week' fodder?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 11:37:03 GMT -5
The only way to square that circle with Brodie Lee would be for him to wrestle in a suit, which I am all for. He should challenge Mayor Kane in Bra & Panties Suit Off Match!
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Apr 9, 2020 12:10:27 GMT -5
Literally because he made a big reference the first day now everything must be. People are just connecting things that there isnt because one segment. At this point it tells more about what people think of Vince than the segments itself. The, "Old man who doubted me," was a WWE refernece. The Sister Abigail tease was a WWE reference. The sneezing thing was a WWE reference. The eating in front of people while refusing to let them do the same was a WWE reference. The freaking out over someone showing they're tired was a WWE reference. The Mr. thing was more than likely a WWE reference. Why is it a stretch of logic to believe the tie thing was as well, when there's a direct well known thing WWE did that can be directly tied to it? If it doesn't bother you or whatever then cool, fine, but it's not like the people bringing this up are pulling something out of thin air here. Pretty much everything Brodie's done can be directly traced back to WWE, it's not like you have to look very hard to make the connections. See this is the issue that shows it is people being paranoid because of the first day. Wow x,he wears suits,he wants to be called Mr Brodie,one of the biggest cliches of power moves. He doesnt want people to act out of his way of what proper is , classic power moves. He rewards people for following his exact orders ,like any cult leader. people are being paranoid because of the first day which clearlt had inspirations
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Apr 9, 2020 12:11:30 GMT -5
At this point I just kinda feel bad for Evil Uno and Tiny Kratos. Right now The Dark Order is nothing more than the Vince Parody Hour. Uno should've just been the de factor leader. I'm going to agree, even though I wasn't a fan of the DO before this. It seems like whatever plan the DO had before have been thrown out because someone decided to poke fun at McMahon. Once they finish with this, will the DO be able to get back on track for what they wanted, or will they become the next Blue World Order and become 'parody-of-the-week' fodder? Except it is hardly a full Bince character or a joke. Brodie is a serious evil character that has none of Vince famous wacky and crazy outgoing personality.
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