chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,670
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Post by chrom on Apr 15, 2020 11:29:46 GMT -5
Resigning Hogan and giving him total control of booking.
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domrep
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,461
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Post by domrep on Apr 15, 2020 12:04:37 GMT -5
Sting should have won clean at Starrcade and would have had ready made contenders in Flair, Bret, DDP, etc.
They could have still gone through the NWO split with black and white vs. red and black.
They still could have done the Goldberg push as normal.
That would have held them over for at least another year or so.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,049
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Apr 15, 2020 12:22:07 GMT -5
One that some people don't mention often is Buff Bagwell after his injury. They had a ready made babyface on their hands as fans were concerned and wanted to see him back as a face, instead they did some stupid heel-face-heel turn every other week with Scott Steiner. Then after a year or so, they turn him face in 99 after the fact and no one cared. That's been said a lot over the years, and I'm not sure I'm 100% on board with it. You get the big return angle, a feud, then what? Bagwell just came off as such a douche, even when trying to be a face, that keeping him that way wouldn't have worked for long either. Maybe the turn came a bit too soon, but it was his natural role and character, having him sucker people into giving him sympathy to gain an advantage is pretty much what should have done.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 12:28:23 GMT -5
Can I say something up front; I enjoy 1998 Bret Hart, and how he was an nWo flunky. The "I don't care about anything" attitude he presented and willingness to turn and then turn again on a moment's notice was brilliant.
But, WCW had something white hot, and then turned him into just another overpaid performer was just another example of WCW being WCW.
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Post by chronocross on Apr 15, 2020 13:08:29 GMT -5
One that some people don't mention often is Buff Bagwell after his injury. They had a ready made babyface on their hands as fans were concerned and wanted to see him back as a face, instead they did some stupid heel-face-heel turn every other week with Scott Steiner. Then after a year or so, they turn him face in 99 after the fact and no one cared. That's been said a lot over the years, and I'm not sure I'm 100% on board with it. You get the big return angle, a feud, then what? Bagwell just came off as such a douche, even when trying to be a face, that keeping him that way wouldn't have worked for long either. Maybe the turn came a bit too soon, but it was his natural role and character, having him sucker people into giving him sympathy to gain an advantage is pretty much what should have done. Perhaps, but I always felt like they could have done something more than have him go back and forth teasing the turn and never doing anything with it. Not saying he would have set the world on fire but it would have been one less nWo cronie around.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,049
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Apr 15, 2020 13:19:48 GMT -5
That's been said a lot over the years, and I'm not sure I'm 100% on board with it. You get the big return angle, a feud, then what? Bagwell just came off as such a douche, even when trying to be a face, that keeping him that way wouldn't have worked for long either. Maybe the turn came a bit too soon, but it was his natural role and character, having him sucker people into giving him sympathy to gain an advantage is pretty much what should have done. Perhaps, but I always felt like they could have done something more than have him go back and forth teasing the turn and never doing anything with it. Not saying he would have set the world on fire but it would have been one less nWo cronie around. He was one of the guys I felt actually benefited from it, going from bland babyface, him as an annoying chickenshit heel, especially his pairing with Scott Steiner really brought him out, I'd have been happy with those 2 staying heel just splitting off.
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Post by evilone on Apr 15, 2020 18:43:24 GMT -5
All of these had the same cause: Hogan's contract
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Post by somsta on Apr 15, 2020 21:04:35 GMT -5
Bischoff’s bizarre vendetta against Ric Flair through the entire year is up there as well.
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Post by bmfjules on Apr 16, 2020 11:43:22 GMT -5
All of these had the same cause: Hogan's contract This is where Vince McMahon (pre going senile) always defeats Eric Bischoff in any promotional war replayed 1000 times over. McMahon is a born promoter, booker and a hands-on general.
No one ever talks about Bischoff getting them to agree to stuff they were originally opposed to via "jedi mind tricks" like Vince did and still does occasionally... From all reports, Bischoff was a hands off middle management type who tried to fix everything with more money, less dates, and more creative control offered to big stars creating a giant mess. It's like fighting a war where one side has a regular sized army with Julius Caesar in charge and the other side has legions upon legions but it's up to a former errand boy that no one respects or will listen to attempting to order the soldiers around.
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segaz
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,381
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Post by segaz on Apr 17, 2020 4:56:26 GMT -5
One that some people don't mention often is Buff Bagwell after his injury. They had a ready made babyface on their hands as fans were concerned and wanted to see him back as a face, instead they did some stupid heel-face-heel turn every other week with Scott Steiner. Then after a year or so, they turn him face in 99 after the fact and no one cared. Pairing him with scott Steiner really built him up. That's what made him big. Early 99 he gets as much pops as Poppa Pump when they come out together. The only true failure I can see from the poll is misuse of Bret Hart. While it WAS stupid to give Hogan and Goldberg away for free on Nitro, TNT cared more about tv ratings than ppv buys. Building conflict on Nitro and then having the payoff at the ppv makes story sense. Sting joining the NWO Wolfpac was fine, the failure comes from both him and savage not feeling betrayed and retaliating on the NWO Elite in early 99.
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Post by johnnyk9 on Apr 17, 2020 10:13:02 GMT -5
Definitely ruining Bret Hart
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repomark
Unicron
For Mash Get Smash
Posts: 3,049
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Post by repomark on Apr 18, 2020 7:41:23 GMT -5
As has been said, it is all three to an extent. They derailed the three hottest babyfaces they had for reasons I can’t begin to understand.
I think it’s also true that they botched the Warrior too - he could still draw if booked correctly - but Bret Hart, Sting and Goldberg were the three biggest opportunities missed. The obsession with the NWO was their issue and being reluctant to let someone finally kill it off.
It all stems from failing to book Starrcade 97 correctly (or execute it correctly). The concept they had was almost fine with a few tweaks. Keep Bret off television entirely before Starrcade and have Hogan lock the Scorpion death lock on Sting - have Bischoff at ringside audibly yell “ring the bell”, then have Bret come out to flatten everyone, restart the match and Sting wins with the Scorpion Death Lock.
Then you have a ready made feud between Bret and the NWO, building to the Hogan match, in 98. He could even partner with Sting as part of the feud - planting the seeds of the eventual pay off of Hart v Sting, Sharpshooter v Scorpion Deathlock.
Goldberg’s streak would be ongoing in the background and he could be Sting and Hart’s secret weapon in the final match against the NWO - where if the NWO lose they must disband. Do the match exactly the same way as the Hogan third man reveal, only its Goldberg who is revealed as the third man to help Sting and Hart finally finish off the NWO.
Nash could then form the Wolfpac (with no NWO affiliation just a new faction).
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 18, 2020 11:02:52 GMT -5
Bret Hart was the hottest talent in the industry, yes, but he was also a low-drawing champion up to that point and a terrible fit for WCW as it was then. I'm not sure that ever really had a chance.
Goldberg still had years of juice left, and they killed him. He could have drawn so much more money. They stopped making money at all, what, three months after that?
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Post by thegame415 on Apr 18, 2020 11:13:57 GMT -5
Goldberg.
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