MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Apr 19, 2020 20:49:20 GMT -5
Jordan was kind of a miserable bastard in general, but that doesn't take away from how incredible of a player he was. Doesn't help your GM was an even more miserable bastard who hated being ignored in public admiration. Yeah, I don't think kids are putting up Jerry Krause posters. Of course, back in the day, I was (and still am) a Pacers fan so it will be interesting to see when they get to the Eastern Conference Finals, not to mention Jalen Rose is doing post episode podcasts. It's a testament to Bird's genius and Reggie's ability to Never Say Die that their only team, besides the Knicks to push the Bulls to 7.
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MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Apr 19, 2020 20:58:43 GMT -5
The Biggest What If of the 90s NBA: Does Hakeem get a Ring if Jordan doesn't leave?
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Apr 19, 2020 21:00:33 GMT -5
The Biggest What If of the 90s NBA: Does Hakeem get a Ring if Jordan doesn't leave? I think he does.
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MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Apr 19, 2020 21:02:49 GMT -5
The Biggest What If of the 90s NBA: Does Hakeem get a Ring if Jordan doesn't leave? I think he does. I can see '94, but 1995...
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MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Apr 19, 2020 21:06:28 GMT -5
How the hell Pippen didn't win a Defensive Player of the Year Award?
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sfvega
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Post by sfvega on Apr 19, 2020 21:11:24 GMT -5
The Biggest What If of the 90s NBA: Does Hakeem get a Ring if Jordan doesn't leave? 50/50 that he gets one.
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Perd
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Post by Perd on Apr 19, 2020 21:23:13 GMT -5
I never knew about how criminally underpaid Scottie was.
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MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Apr 19, 2020 21:27:34 GMT -5
Jordan was kind of a miserable bastard in general, but that doesn't take away from how incredible of a player he was. Given how star-driven a sport basketball is, and considering how even though you have four teammates on the floor with you, the game can occasionally come down to isolation play, so the best players need to have that curmudgeonly side. Some of the all-timers have had it: Jordan, Bird, Isiah, Kobe, Shaq, just to name a few. They all had that edge to them to know when to say “get me the ball and get the f**k out of the way.” Magic had it. IIRC, he was made Captain of the Dream Team, he chewed them out harshly during practice.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 21:29:31 GMT -5
The Biggest What If of the 90s NBA: Does Hakeem get a Ring if Jordan doesn't leave? One at best, mainly because I don't know how probable it would have been for the Bulls to win 8 straight titles even with prime MJ. They definitely could have done it, and I'd put nothing past Jordan, but that would have been a very tall task. I think 50/50 Hakeem gets 1 is accurate. I only saw the last 10 minutes of this out of curiosity, as I want to watch the whole thing at once rather than in installments, but man, watching that you could see that Kobe was basically a cosplay of MJ. Not in terms of overall ability, but rather the mannerisms, the way he talked, style of play, etc, etc. It was like Kobe had to play MJ in a movie and just studied his every move. When Kobe was younger, my brother and I would always mention how he's trying to sound like MJ, but seeing younger MJ like that, it becomes more clear.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 19, 2020 21:30:19 GMT -5
I never knew about how criminally underpaid Scottie was. for reference I remember years ago they mentioned that Scottie was so resentful about the contract that he was lashing out.
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Post by AwamoriRock on Apr 19, 2020 21:43:48 GMT -5
This is superbly fascinating and a great insight into everything surrounding the GOAT.
But man the footage of basketball is case evidence against the “today’s players couldn’t hang back in the day” crowd. Whiteside might have a statue if he played back then.
It’s so great to learn more about the behind the scenes stuff. It’s been hinted at for ages but maybe the later eps will get dirty?
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MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Apr 19, 2020 21:47:21 GMT -5
Despite his brilliance, Jordan never beat Bird in the playoffs.
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mo
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Post by mo on Apr 19, 2020 21:49:52 GMT -5
These double OT scores looking like typical modern day scores.
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MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Apr 19, 2020 21:56:02 GMT -5
This is superbly fascinating and a great insight into everything surrounding the GOAT. But man the footage of basketball is case evidence against the “today’s players couldn’t hang back in the day” crowd. Whiteside might have a statue if he played back then. It’s so great to learn more about the behind the scenes stuff. It’s been hinted at for ages but maybe the later eps will get dirty? You can't hold down talent. Shaq and Wilt in their Prime would dominate any era, Hakeem would give any center fits, Magic would dazzle no matter the scene, Curry would shoot the lights out and who's stopping Kareem's Skyhook?
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sfvega
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Post by sfvega on Apr 19, 2020 21:59:28 GMT -5
Despite his brilliance, Jordan never beat Bird in the playoffs. Doesn't really say much. Bird fell apart in the early 90s when Jordan and the Bulls peaked, Bulls were no match in the 80s.
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MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Apr 19, 2020 22:00:43 GMT -5
Despite his brilliance, Jordan never beat Bird in the playoffs. Doesn't really say much. Bird fell apart in the early 90s when Jordan and the Bulls peaked, Bulls were no match in the 80s. True. It's a shame we never got battle with both sides at a comparable level.
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Post by AwamoriRock on Apr 19, 2020 22:03:15 GMT -5
This is superbly fascinating and a great insight into everything surrounding the GOAT. But man the footage of basketball is case evidence against the “today’s players couldn’t hang back in the day” crowd. Whiteside might have a statue if he played back then. It’s so great to learn more about the behind the scenes stuff. It’s been hinted at for ages but maybe the later eps will get dirty? You can't hold down talent. Shaq and Wilt in their Prime would dominate any era, Hakeem would give any center fits, Magic would dazzle no matter the scene, Curry would shoot the lights out and who's stopping Kareem's Skyhook? Oh I’m not denying any of THEIR talent, if anything they are under praised due to a lack of social media hype in their day. Those guys would dominate any era. If anything those guys would be more dominant today. I just find the narrative (usually pushes by old players turned commentators) that some guys today would somehow wither if a player was allowed to put a hand closer to their face etc
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sfvega
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Post by sfvega on Apr 19, 2020 22:05:32 GMT -5
Doesn't really say much. Bird fell apart in the early 90s when Jordan and the Bulls peaked, Bulls were no match in the 80s. True. It's a shame we never got battle with both sides at a comparable level. Yeah, it's weird the Pistons fell apart almost overnight as well. And Houston never seemed to be as good as as they were in the absent (or mostly absent) Jordan years. And the Lakers and Spurs popped up right after. As good as a lot of the teams like the Sonics and Knicks and Jazz were, they never had a team that stood toe-to-toe with them during that run.
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BRV
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Post by BRV on Apr 19, 2020 22:08:12 GMT -5
I see the potential that exists in the episodes to come, but dare I say the first two episodes of "The Last Dance" left me underwhelmed.
Again, there's still eight episodes to go, so I may end up eating my words, but this footage of the 1997-98 Bulls has been kept behind closed doors for 20-plus years. Only recently was it greenlit to be aired for public consumption. There's obviously a lot of phenomenal material in it that will have people talking for days, weeks, and months on end. Yet the majority of the first two episodes was footage and backstories from Michael Jordan's past that we've known about for decades.
Give me 20 minutes of that random must-win game in Anaheim against the Clippers where Jordan is rolling his eyes at his teammates on the floor, instead of another 20 minutes reliving his 63-point playoff game against the Celtics for the umpteenth time. Let's dive into greater detail on him chewing out Toni Kukoc and Ron Harper in practice rather than devoting more air time to him getting cut him his varsity basketball team in high school. I wanted to see what the Bulls' locker room was like after that early-season road losing streak rather than hearing more effusive praise about his tenure in Chapel Hill.
Again, the best feels like its yet to come, but the first two episodes just feel like two missed opportunities.
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sfvega
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Post by sfvega on Apr 19, 2020 22:14:36 GMT -5
It's hilarious that Krause does so much to build the team while also doing so, so much to undermine it. Jordan didn't like him, Pippen and Phil hated him. He repeatedly tried to get the latter out the door. It's like an architect seeing his giant building come to fruition and then repeatedly ramming his car into it. What a buffoon.
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