john84
Fry's dog Seymour
Proud Father of 3 :)
Posts: 23,957
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Post by john84 on Aug 29, 2020 13:29:30 GMT -5
I won't shit on it yet but I don't think heel Roman needs Heyman. He does for promos imo.
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john84
Fry's dog Seymour
Proud Father of 3 :)
Posts: 23,957
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Post by john84 on Aug 29, 2020 13:34:01 GMT -5
Roman and Braun going heel, bray going face. Bunch of bold moves being made Cotton, let’s see how this plays out. Semi relates but I have no idea how they can do the Fiend face. Funhouse Bray maybe?
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Shark
Hank Scorpio
The world's only Samurai Ninja Pirate
Posts: 7,045
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Post by Shark on Aug 29, 2020 14:25:27 GMT -5
The more I think about it, this is f***ing brilliant. Turn him heel while there’s no crowds to screw it up, and 9-12 months down the line when we theoretically have decent sized crowds again fans will be foaming at the mouth for him to turn face again and beat the shit outta Heyman. And after years of trying, they’ll finally have their Roman Reigns megaface. Granted, people have been saying the whole time that’s how you make Reigns a star on that level, but hey at least they finally caught on. Or, maybe he is so good as a heel and gets so over as a heel you just run with it for a few years. That’s also a possibility, but him becoming a super over babyface sooner rather then later seems more likely. My only nitpick, is I would’ve closed SummerSlam with the Heyman/Reigns reveal. Roman returning is a decent hook for SD, but you close SummerSlam with Heyman coming down and doing the Shield fist with Roman and then raising his arm with that evil, sleazy grin on his face and there’s no way in hell I’m missing Smackdown I think that was their goal, but as a way for us to watch Payback. Really, the interest in that show was near zero, but now with Heyman added into the mix and Roman being now more cemented as a heel, I think it's far more likely fans will watch now. I know I will.
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Matt
El Dandy
Posts: 8,727
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Post by Matt on Aug 29, 2020 16:15:52 GMT -5
Anyone else not really care about alignment? Yeah, heel vs. face is a core pro wrestling thing and most feuds will and probably should stay that way, but I definitely welcome more deviation. If the story is interesting I'll take 3 heels fighting, face vs. face, whatever. Even more if it's a long time without a lot or any fans, it doesn't really matter who is heel and who is face.
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Aug 29, 2020 20:48:17 GMT -5
I'm not convinced this is a thing yet. I can see Roman winning at Payback and immediately superman punching Heyman. But it's got my interest I'll give them that much.
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Post by ChitownKnight on Aug 30, 2020 4:40:43 GMT -5
I'm not convinced this is a thing yet. I can see Roman winning at Payback and immediately superman punching Heyman. But it's got my interest I'll give them that much. Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised. This could be a tease and maybe they try this when crowds come back
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Post by Pipe_Bomb2k13 on Aug 30, 2020 5:32:52 GMT -5
Heyman should recruit Rollins too, and they should all wear black tactical gear and do the three fists pose together, and act like they've always been a unit and any old photos you might see with a thinner, less-balding third guy are just a sign Paul hasn't aged well. Also have them walk through the crowds together lol. I'd lose my s**t if Heyman tries to do a Dirty Deeds or at least rebounding of the ropes thing that Moxley used to do as Ambrose. Or if he dives over the barricade like Seth use to do I'd losr mine.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2020 5:35:52 GMT -5
I’m not positive The Fiend is going face though because it seems Bliss is joining him. The team would work really well as a face unit and actually be something of a weakness for heels to exploit, but in Modern WWE I do not remember a face man and woman pairing, I don’t believe they think it works.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 30, 2020 6:53:30 GMT -5
Anyone else not really care about alignment? Yeah, heel vs. face is a core pro wrestling thing and most feuds will and probably should stay that way, but I definitely welcome more deviation. If the story is interesting I'll take 3 heels fighting, face vs. face, whatever. No. I care immensely as a viewer.. WWE has like *no* major babyfaces now, and they desperately need some. I’m fine with faces wrestling each other and even with heels clashing for a title, but deviation isn’t something I think helps them now. The audience needs heroes, and Roman post-leukemia scare could have been that perfect hero if they had just stuck with it. I’m sorry, but I think this Heyman thing and turn is a bad idea.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 30, 2020 6:58:41 GMT -5
It's so weird that when he was the super babyface, I felt like he needed to turn heel in the worse way. Now, that he's actually come back and has every reason to be a badass babyface who stands by himself, after fighting off another bout of cancer and actually doing the right thing for himself and taking himself off of TV during the pandemic, they decide he needs to be a heel and saddle him with Paul Heyman. Guys, am I the asshole here, or is it the WWE? I really need to know. It’s the WWE. Honestly, if there was ever a time for Roman to be the super face, it’s *now*. And NXT has a similar problem now that Keith Lee’s been called up. I really hope Balor and Cole are fit into those top face spots soon.
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Post by häšhtå.gdālėÿ on Aug 30, 2020 7:22:13 GMT -5
It's so weird that when he was the super babyface, I felt like he needed to turn heel in the worse way. Now, that he's actually come back and has every reason to be a badass babyface who stands by himself, after fighting off another bout of cancer and actually doing the right thing for himself and taking himself off of TV during the pandemic, they decide he needs to be a heel and saddle him with Paul Heyman. Guys, am I the asshole here, or is it the WWE? I really need to know. It’s the WWE. Honestly, if there was ever a time for Roman to be the super face, it’s *now*. And NXT has a similar problem now that Keith Lee’s been called up. I really hope Balor and Cole are fit into those top face spots soon. This is the best thing for Roman’s career. He’s going to be the face they’ve wanted him to be for 6 years once he turns back. It’s going to be legit WrestleMania Moment(tm) for the ages when he turns back after a hopefully long and dominant heel run to be unanimously accepted by the fans. And once again, the funniest thing about this is they have to try really hard to make him a dastardly heel because people will cheer this simple because it’s new for the Roman Reigns character.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 30, 2020 8:45:55 GMT -5
A heel turn will make Roman a bigger face
All the people who claim they don't want him on TV will turn around cause of the new character and just in general a hot heel turn run will lead to a bigger face run cause of the character
When he turns face again they will boo him tho, just because but you worry about that later
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Aug 30, 2020 8:46:47 GMT -5
I’m not positive The Fiend is going face though because it seems Bliss is joining him. The team would work really well as a face unit and actually be something of a weakness for heels to exploit, but in Modern WWE I do not remember a face man and woman pairing, I don’t believe they think it works.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 30, 2020 8:49:29 GMT -5
It’s the WWE. Honestly, if there was ever a time for Roman to be the super face, it’s *now*. And NXT has a similar problem now that Keith Lee’s been called up. I really hope Balor and Cole are fit into those top face spots soon. This is the best thing for Roman’s career. He’s going to be the face they’ve wanted him to be for 6 years once he turns back. It’s going to be legit WrestleMania Moment(tm) for the ages when he turns back after a hopefully long and dominant heel run to be unanimously accepted by the fans. And once again, the funniest thing about this is they have to try really hard to make him a dastardly heel because people will cheer this simple because it’s new for the Roman Reigns character. I disagree. We shouldn’t have to wait for Roman to have a dark phase for like six months or so before he becomes a true babyface hero. If WWE had just given him the title at Mania 31 as was planned and let him be a strong champion/face of the company like other champs before him (Hogan, Cena, Bret, etc.) instead of him playing a scrappy chaser who always came up short, over time he probably wouldn’t have been booed so hard by crowds to start with. He’d be in a *way* better position now with fans had they been more consistent with the push. I think it was the choking in big matches against Brock that hurt him, rather than any of his wins over the midcard. His aura following his return from treatment already felt like something new for him. Roman didn’t need to be “freshened up”, he needed a steadier run of success and time with the world title that proved in the kayfabe why he deserves to be called “Big Dog”. He needs to be positioned as WWE’s male Ace, right now, because the product is way too heel dominant at the moment and I think it’s turning a lot of casual fans off.
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Post by häšhtå.gdālėÿ on Aug 30, 2020 8:55:06 GMT -5
The 50/50 or worse POLARIZING crowd reaction was already returning pretty soon after Roman came back from his illness. He can’t be just straight up “IM THE SHIELD” Roman Reigns anymore, and hopefully this heel turn will lead to a new babyface character down the road. Shield face force Reigns will never work. And that’s all he ever was during his run.
I guess they could make him the top face now and pretend everything is going to plan since fans aren’t a thing anymore, but I doubt superface Roman would do anything for the ratings. I can’t see this being anything but great both for now and for down the road.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 30, 2020 8:57:11 GMT -5
This is the best thing for Roman’s career. He’s going to be the face they’ve wanted him to be for 6 years once he turns back. It’s going to be legit WrestleMania Moment(tm) for the ages when he turns back after a hopefully long and dominant heel run to be unanimously accepted by the fans. And once again, the funniest thing about this is they have to try really hard to make him a dastardly heel because people will cheer this simple because it’s new for the Roman Reigns character. I disagree. We shouldn’t have to wait for Roman to have a dark phase for like six months or so before he becomes a true babyface hero. If WWE had just given him the title at Mania 31 as was planned and let him be a strong champion/face of the company like other champs before him (Hogan, Cena, Bret, etc.) instead of him playing a scrappy chaser who always came up short, over time he probably wouldn’t have been booed so hard by crowds to start with. He’d be in a *way* better position now with fans had they been more consistent with the push. I think it was the choking in big matches against Brock that hurt him, rather than any of his wins over the midcard. His aura following his return from treatment already felt like something new for him. Roman didn’t need to be “freshened up”, he needed a steadier run of success and time with the world title that proved in the kayfabe why he deserves to be called “Big Dog”. He needs to be positioned as WWE’s male Ace, right now, because the product is way too heel dominant at the moment and I think it’s turning a lot of casual fans off. As a Roman fan, I don't think he needed to be freshened up but people are petty The man was always going to get booed, and you saw that as soon as he was back to going to the Universal title before the pandemic, they flipped on him WWE has a tendency to try to play both sides and pander. They should stuck to their guns like Gedo with Okada in saying f*** you, we are doing this but they didn't. They played both sides in trying to appease everyone so Roman came up short in moments he shouldn't have while his heat was transferred to others like Seth and Braun Fans hate the perceived chosen one. No matter what he was always going to get booed for whatever reason. This turn will help bring some of the fickle people back on board while keeping his same fans and making him a bigger star And just in general, while Roman overcoming cancer is great, they never leaned into it. He was never "Joe" like he should have been. He needs a fresh character, this is a wrestling show. Just like with DB this will light a fire under him as opposed to doing the same old thing he was doing before
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 30, 2020 9:12:42 GMT -5
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a “chosen one babyface” if that face is talented and charismatic. If they’re good at their job, they’ll keep selling merch, they’ll keep getting high ratings and loud reactions. Trying to make them edgier out of nowhere, or having them suddenly become weaker because they were winning a lot just to appease a handful of folks who hate them, is awful strategy.
Golden rule #23 of Pro Wrestling 101: It’s okay if the top face isn’t everyone’s favorite.
All wrestling companies should stick with their guns if a babyface is performing the way they want. Vince stuck with Cena as a strong champ despite some fans in the crowd liking Punk or Edge more, and he was overall a success. As you said, Gedo knew Okada had the tools and kept him as a strong champ despite fans liking Naito or Tanahashi more, and overall Okada’s been a success as well.
And back in the day, Hogan and Bret weren’t universally loved by every single fan either, and I know of tons of fans who couldn’t stand Austin or Rock, There’s tons of fan reports talking about this crowd booing Dusty and cheering Ric, that crowd booed face Hogan, and so on. No face has ever been embraced by all fans, because people aren’t monolithic- folks will like who they like, and that’s fine.
Roman’s issue wasn’t him being over pushed, it was him getting cut off at the knees. His treatment by the writers has been a lot closer to Made In The USA Lex Luger, a hyped up superface who was over for a period before Yokozuna kept outwitting him, and then the fans went back to Bret.
My main point is, if you stay consistent with a face star who has talent and charm, which Roman has, you don’t need to turn them heel. “Universally loved faces” are a myth.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2020 9:17:00 GMT -5
On SD, before this, Roman was being written the way he always should've been, so I didn't have much of a problem with him as a face anymore. Right now this is the most interesting he's ever been since The Shield split though, IMO.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 30, 2020 9:23:45 GMT -5
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a “chosen one babyface” if that face is talented and charismatic. If they’re good at their job, they’ll keep selling merch, they’ll keep getting high ratings and loud reactions. Trying to make them edgier out of nowhere, or having them suddenly become weaker because they were winning a lot just to appease a handful of folks who hate them, is awful strategy. Golden rule #23 of Pro Wrestling 101: It’s okay if the top face isn’t everyone’s favorite. All wrestling companies should stick with their guns if a babyface is performing the way they want. Vince stuck with Cena as a strong champ despite some fans in the crowd liking Punk or Edge more, and he was overall a success. As you said, Gedo knew Okada had the tools and kept him as a strong champ despite fans liking Naito or Tanahashi more, and overall Okada’s been a success as well. And back in the day, Hogan and Bret weren’t universally loved by every single fan either, and I know of tons of fans who couldn’t stand Austin or Rock, There’s tons of fan reports talking about this crowd booing Dusty and cheering Ric, that crowd booed face Hogan, and so on. No face has ever been embraced by all fans, because people aren’t monolithic- folks will like who they like, and that’s fine. Roman’s issue wasn’t him being over pushed, it was him getting cut off at the knees. His treatment by the writers has been a lot closer to Made In The USA Lex Luger, a hyped up superface who was over for a period before Yokozuna kept outwitting him, and then the fans went back to Bret. My main point is, if you stay consistent with a face star who has talent and charm, which Roman has, you don’t need to turn them heel. “Universally loved faces” are a myth. I agree However, as said no matter what you're going to have that portion who will just hate him no matter what and they want their voices to be heard the loudest This board alone should tell you how split it is on him. Responses like, I like Joe and wish him good health but don't want Roman on my TV has been seen plenty of times on here and is outside of that realm of wrestling you really can't do anything about I will keep repeating, fans are fickle. They hate the "vanilla" version of him but will change their tune with this potential heel turn. He will be a face again and hotter then he ever was. It launched Becky Lynch into a whole diff orbit. Steve Austin coming off the double turn. Rock getting his Nation and Corporate runs. He's still THE GUY whether he is a face or heel but the change in character will change perception at least for a little while. He will still be hated because he is a Vince favorite and not a "organic favorite"
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Aug 30, 2020 11:53:51 GMT -5
This is a huge move and has fans excited. If you think a heel Roman is a bad idea or wanna blame the fans for being fickle or whatever I don't even know what to say.
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