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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 19, 2020 2:04:23 GMT -5
It's like when Stephen King was once asked about what Hollywood did to his books, and he answered they didn't do anything, his books are right there on his shelf. John Carpenter has a similar attitude when asked about how Hollywood ruins his movies by remaking them: "Here's what happens when I read in the trades that one of my movies is getting remade: I look up at my shelf and see the original is still there, then I open my hand and a giant check lands in it. It's wonderful, I love it."
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Post by Mr Mario Mario on Dec 19, 2020 3:49:23 GMT -5
Batman Forever which is just terrible and boring This is an opinion I cannot agree with in the slightest. It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact Jack! No wait, you’re right it is an opinion. It’s very easy to get them confused these days I stand by it though, I loved the film the first time I saw it and then watched it a few years ago and oooooffttt (In my fact....no wait opinion dammit)
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Post by thechase on Dec 19, 2020 4:51:42 GMT -5
Forever actually gets better with age. It knows what it is and doesn't apologise for it.
..But...BUT...Tommy Lee, for heaven's sake, dial it back, you made Carrey look legit!
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Bad Moon
Unicron
for reasons known only to the goblins that live in my brain
Posts: 3,091
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Post by Bad Moon on Dec 19, 2020 4:55:54 GMT -5
I have Star Wars on my mind a lot cause of the Mandalorian, so here's my take on prequel apologists: No. They're not underrated, making fun of them is not just a meme, they're genuinely awful movies. It's just that the newer Star Wars movies are so bad it makes them look better in comparison, but it doesn't stop them from being awful or make them underappreciated in retrospect. Bad things don't magically become good if something else even worse exists to compare them to. I see the same thing happening with f***ing Twilight right now as well because of 50 Shades and the Hunger Games and it annoys me to no end.
On the topic of Forever, I think it's worse than Batman and Robin. At least Batman and Robin is funny, Forever is just bland.
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Post by thechase on Dec 19, 2020 5:08:35 GMT -5
I have Star Wars on my mind a lot cause of the Mandalorian, so here's my take on prequel apologists: No. They're not underrated, making fun of them is not just a meme, they're genuinely awful movies. It's just that the newer Star Wars movies are so bad it makes them look better in comparison, but it doesn't stop them from being awful or make them underappreciated in retrospect. Bad things don't magically become good if something else even worse exists to compare them to. Yes, thankyou. I'll never be convinced people like the prequels in any other way than on a purely ironic level. I like the politics and whatnot just fine, but trying to convey them on screen was always so sloppily handed on Lucas' part. The Clone Wars cartoons handed it much better and in a manner that treated the kids watching like they were just as smart as the people who made the show. And yeah, Batman and Robin is fine. The Alfred sub-plot has a lot of genuine heart to it, Arnie's lines are legendary, and O'Donnel's the best thing in it.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 19, 2020 13:30:28 GMT -5
I have Star Wars on my mind a lot cause of the Mandalorian, so here's my take on prequel apologists: No. They're not underrated, making fun of them is not just a meme, they're genuinely awful movies. It's just that the newer Star Wars movies are so bad it makes them look better in comparison, but it doesn't stop them from being awful or make them underappreciated in retrospect. Bad things don't magically become good if something else even worse exists to compare them to. I see the same thing happening with f***ing Twilight right now as well because of 50 Shades and the Hunger Games and it annoys me to no end.
On the topic of Forever, I think it's worse than Batman and Robin. At least Batman and Robin is funny, Forever is just bland.
I think it's less about meme or ironic enjoyment of the prequels and more of the target audience. The prequels were millions of children's "Star Wars." And now they're all adults and many of them now have an internet presence. In 15-20 or so years we'll probably see a similar surge of appreciation of the Sequel Trilogy from people who had those movies as "their Star Wars" when they were children.
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Post by dirtyoldman on Dec 19, 2020 15:02:52 GMT -5
"<Insert band/singer here> were better when they were on drugs". No, no they werent. This isnt just some "drugs are bad" thing, but the drugs didnt give them any musical ability, if anything, the fact that they were strung out probably made it harder to be in the right mind to record music. The weird thing is that this statement only applies to music. I mean, (I hope) nobody says stuff like "Robert Downey Jr was a better actor when he was on drugs". There was a line in the show 'Peep Show' where I think the character Jeremy was quiting drugs and says something like "who made good music on drugs...well there was Bowie and the stones...but think how much quicker they would have made it if they weren't on drugs"
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Dec 19, 2020 17:21:00 GMT -5
I have Star Wars on my mind a lot cause of the Mandalorian, so here's my take on prequel apologists: No. They're not underrated, making fun of them is not just a meme, they're genuinely awful movies. It's just that the newer Star Wars movies are so bad it makes them look better in comparison, but it doesn't stop them from being awful or make them underappreciated in retrospect. Bad things don't magically become good if something else even worse exists to compare them to. I see the same thing happening with f***ing Twilight right now as well because of 50 Shades and the Hunger Games and it annoys me to no end. On the topic of Forever, I think it's worse than Batman and Robin. At least Batman and Robin is funny, Forever is just bland.
I think it's less about meme or ironic enjoyment of the prequels and more of the target audience. The prequels were millions of children's "Star Wars." And now they're all adults and many of them now have an internet presence. In 15-20 or so years we'll probably see a similar surge of appreciation of the Sequel Trilogy from people who had those movies as "their Star Wars" when they were children. The funny thing is that I've seen this take before and the sequel detractors are absolutely adamant that they'll never be liked or fondly remembered. it's like they have no idea how fandom works.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 19, 2020 17:39:00 GMT -5
The funny thing is that I've seen this take before and the sequel detractors are absolutely adamant that they'll never be liked or fondly remembered. it's like they have no idea how fandom works. The detractors are pretty good at overlooking the fact that there's already millions of people who genuinely love the sequels, or if they do they pull out the old "Well, they're not true fans" cliche.
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Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,717
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Post by Glitch on Dec 19, 2020 17:39:54 GMT -5
On the topic of the Star Wars prequels and sequels. I really hate seeing the rebuttal that people only hate the sequels because they are too similar to the original trilogy or that they hate the prequels because they are too different. No, you nitwit. I don't like them because I think they are terribly written. I don't care if they are too similar or too different. I just want a well written movie.
This is an extremely dishonest straw-man argument, and you should be ashamed of yourself if you use it. We can rightfully argue the merits of the writing, but going this route is super lazy.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,959
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 19, 2020 17:44:58 GMT -5
"<Insert band/singer here> were better when they were on drugs". No, no they werent. This isnt just some "drugs are bad" thing, but the drugs didnt give them any musical ability, if anything, the fact that they were strung out probably made it harder to be in the right mind to record music. The weird thing is that this statement only applies to music. I mean, (I hope) nobody says stuff like "Robert Downey Jr was a better actor when he was on drugs". By their own admission, by the time they did Toys in the Attic and Rocks, Aerosmith could afford better drugs and the music reflected that. Also, by their own admission “We used to be musicians dabbling in drugs, by Draw the Line, we were drug addicts dabbling in music”. So for a while, it worked, until it didn’t. Such is the case with drugs almost always.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 19, 2020 19:00:56 GMT -5
I think it's less about meme or ironic enjoyment of the prequels and more of the target audience. The prequels were millions of children's "Star Wars." And now they're all adults and many of them now have an internet presence. In 15-20 or so years we'll probably see a similar surge of appreciation of the Sequel Trilogy from people who had those movies as "their Star Wars" when they were children. The funny thing is that I've seen this take before and the sequel detractors are absolutely adamant that they'll never be liked or fondly remembered. it's like they have no idea how fandom works. The best thing is the most vocal prequel detractors said the same exact thing in 2005 and 2006.
Fandom is not a hive mind. The people who hated the prequels back then, I'm willing to bet the vast majority of them still hate the prequels now. As far as the movies go, it's OT or bust (with maybe some love for Rogue One or Solo). The more positive attitude towards the prequels is from lots of new voices entering the fandom who genuinely love those movies. Someone who was say, 7 years old when Revenge of the Sith came out is 22 now.
Star Wars is one of the most popular fictional franchises ever. The amount of attempted gatekeeping by these so-called "true fans" is pathetic.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 19, 2020 19:16:05 GMT -5
Kinda weird how this just turned into one big Star Wars discussion. I’m not angry about it or anything, it’s just funny.
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Post by Malibu Stacy on Dec 19, 2020 19:26:32 GMT -5
The show Friends was mentioned before, so here's one I'm tired of: that people who dislike Ross do so because of the "we were on a break!". NOPE! Heck, everyone I knew hated Ross before and after, but were ALL firmly on his side in that particular situation.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 19, 2020 22:44:50 GMT -5
The show Friends was mentioned before, so here's one I'm tired of: that people who dislike Ross do so because of the "we were on a break!". NOPE! Heck, everyone I knew hated Ross before and after, but were ALL firmly on his side in that particular situation. I never liked Ross until the later seasons, but I was on his side for that, too. Being on a break means "being broken up with maybe a possibility of getting back together." Combine that with thinking Rachel had already moved on with that other guy, and he thought their relationship was irreconcilable.
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,513
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Dec 21, 2020 13:54:33 GMT -5
Porn had no impact on Betamax vs VHS.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Dec 21, 2020 14:22:00 GMT -5
I’ve never heard a human being say “nobody watched Friends”. Everyone watched that trash pile of a TV show. Now why anyone watched it or how they found it funny, that I ask all the time. I can answer one of those questions: It was always on TV and there usually nothing else to watch. As for why people think it's funny? Only God knows. Any Brits here will remember the T4 slot on Channel 4, and E4 on digital/satellite/cable seemingly consisting almost entirely of repeats of Friends at one time. It's one of the multitude of reasons why I hate Friends. On balance I think it's probably the non-factual television programme I loathe the most.
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Post by wildojinx on Dec 21, 2020 23:53:44 GMT -5
Another thing about remakes is that it may cause interest in the originals. Let's say some kid watches all of She-Ra on Netflix, and wants more, then goes onto youtube, searches She-Ra, sees the entire 80s series on there for free, and then the kid has a whole new (to him/her at least) She-Ra series to watch. That's how I discovered the 40s Superman cartoons, I watched Superfriends and loved it, then saw a video of Superman cartoons which happened to be the Fleischer ones and I became a fan of that series as well.
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