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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 18, 2021 9:46:50 GMT -5
I dislike Jericho more than most, but Jericho is a good performer, even old, and he's got a good mind for wrestling. He also seems like a good friend to have given how he helps out his peers with money and advice. It would be nice to be able to say he was no good for years, but it's not the case, life isn't just black and white, unfortunately, he's very much a shade of grey.
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Post by jason1980s on Jan 18, 2021 10:38:01 GMT -5
It's...it's called a heel turn dude. I get kayfabe but this isn't 1960s where he needs to protect his heel image like the Sheik. There's no reason to be a heel troll outside of the arena and off TV. I also get kayfabe but there's a difference between someone disrespecting a flag for kayfabe and someone doing it because they are a disgusting person (see Shawn Michaels/Canadian flag) and someone doing it because they are desperate to try and make their character work because their talent is so lacking. Jericho is a changed person from who he was in the 1990s and early 2000s and when I see him kicking a countries flag I see it not just as a desperate act of protecting the character but also very disturbing knowing 1990s and early 2000s Jericho was far too talented do that. I see it as someone who lost the original skills that brought them their popularity and has to resort to something very disrespectful.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 18, 2021 11:34:22 GMT -5
It's...it's called a heel turn dude. I get kayfabe but this isn't 1960s where he needs to protect his heel image like the Sheik. There's no reason to be a heel troll outside of the arena and off TV. I also get kayfabe but there's a difference between someone disrespecting a flag for kayfabe and someone doing it because they are a disgusting person (see Shawn Michaels/Canadian flag) and someone doing it because they are desperate to try and make their character work because their talent is so lacking. Jericho is a changed person from who he was in the 1990s and early 2000s and when I see him kicking a countries flag I see it not just as a desperate act of protecting the character but also very disturbing knowing 1990s and early 2000s Jericho was far too talented do that. I see it as someone who lost the original skills that brought them their popularity and has to resort to something very disrespectful. You seemed to be complaining about him “trolling fans on Raw” when he did the routine of coming out and not saying anything. That was his character.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2021 15:10:41 GMT -5
I think the last couple of posts highlight one of the most significant issues with a guy like Jericho still being active in 2021. We are in an era of professional wrestling where "kayfabe," as traditionally defined does not exist. So, while "The Cleaner" Kenny Omega and "The Tribal Chief" Roman Reigns are complete villains on television, off of television they are goofballs who run gaming YouTube channels and are really cool to fans, or cancer survivors who actively promote really good causes on their social media.
Jericho has the old-school mindset of pretty much always being "in character" (or whatever his perception of the character he's playing happens to be), so you get situations like those described above and people have a lot of trouble separating the performer from the guy. This has been happening with MJF too, as he never ever turns it off, even with fans and has drawn a lot of heat for it. His trolling fans on social media, and general rock star persona doesn't bother me in the slightest, because I don't think it's representative of who he is as a person and, as others have pointed out, he does actually have a track record of being a pretty good, well-adjusted, person, particularly for a wrestler who cut his teeth in the dog days of the Attitude Era and, well, kept the circle of friends that we know he kept.
That said, the issues with his podcast are legitimate and someone really needs to sit him down and advise him that it's not a good idea to be giving a platform to some of the more damaging and radical conspiracy theories that exist, particularly in light of recent events. And the fact that he, himself, seems to buy into some of these theories is doubly alarming. Although, like I've said in other posts, my perception of Jericho is that he does a pretty good job of disguising what he actually thinks about anything and fancies himself this Joe Rogan or Howard Stern-type who'll give anyone a platform in the name of "shock" and "entertainment." To me, he's never done anything so outright bigoted or awful that I am uncomfortable continuing to be a fan of his on that basis. I understand where others' mileage may vary on that, however.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 18, 2021 15:53:13 GMT -5
The "sloppy shop" line was heat of the moment because their world champion's wife got it from her employer's carelessness. It aged poorly because it's only inevitable that people in AEW were going to get it because Florida and just pure odds. To be frank, no one should be running shows right now with how bad the spread is and that's without considering this new strain that spreads even faster. But while AEW's protocols aren't perfect, WWE's approach to the pandemic was actively negligent. This is the uncomfortable truth about all of this, I think. The selfish fan in me does not want to navigate the pandemic without wrestling because now, more than ever, wrestling is an escape from the cruel reality of the world, but these companies really shouldn't be running shows at all right now, if we're being honest. And they wouldn't be, but for Florida being...well...Florida. I'm so glad other people are admitting this. Wrestling should not be happening. It's dangerous. I think Florida is crazy to let it keep going. But man, if I thought I lost my mind during this pandemic before already, without AEW...
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 18, 2021 17:19:39 GMT -5
As much as people are saying wrestling shouldn't be happening, wrestling isn't the only thing that's happening, every sport is happening right now, and it's not all in Florida as much as people wanna also blame Florida. There are Playoff Games happening right now in various states in the NFL and some of them have a lot of fans in their stadiums.
The "Wrestling shouldn't be happening, it's dangerous!" argument had more merit in like April, we're well past it shutting down, especially when WWE avoided it when they had the massive PC outbreak. They've tightened their ships and honestly controlled spread and incidents better than some current big sports have. That's saying something.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2021 19:18:20 GMT -5
As much as people are saying wrestling shouldn't be happening, wrestling isn't the only thing that's happening, every sport is happening right now, and it's not all in Florida as much as people wanna also blame Florida. There are Playoff Games happening right now in various states in the NFL and some of them have a lot of fans in their stadiums. The "Wrestling shouldn't be happening, it's dangerous!" argument had more merit in like April, we're well past it shutting down, especially when WWE avoided it when they had the massive PC outbreak. They've tightened their ships and honestly controlled spread and incidents better than some current big sports have. That's saying something. I don’t disagree with you at all, but I don’t really think the other sports should be running like they are either. Look at all the NCAAB teams that have only played like 3-4 games because of multiple covid outbreaks. The number of NBA games that are being postponed. To me it’s so dangerous that these athletes are being potentially exposed to a virus that no one really knows the long term effects of, but which it appears may cause long term heart issues. Keyontae Johnson’s on-court collapse should have been the end of it, in my eyes. The “right” move is to shut it down, get everyone vaccinated, and make sure that everyone is safe before moving forward on contact sporting events which, by their nature, are superspreaders. That said, like I admitted above, I can selfishly admit that AEW has been massively important in helping me keep my sanity for the last 9 months, and I am happy that if they’re going to do it, they at least seem to be doing it as safely as possible.
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Zone Was Wrong
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Jan 18, 2021 19:22:01 GMT -5
As much as people are saying wrestling shouldn't be happening, wrestling isn't the only thing that's happening, every sport is happening right now, and it's not all in Florida as much as people wanna also blame Florida. There are Playoff Games happening right now in various states in the NFL and some of them have a lot of fans in their stadiums. The "Wrestling shouldn't be happening, it's dangerous!" argument had more merit in like April, we're well past it shutting down, especially when WWE avoided it when they had the massive PC outbreak. They've tightened their ships and honestly controlled spread and incidents better than some current big sports have. That's saying something. I don’t disagree with you at all, but I don’t really think the other sports should be running like they are either. Look at all the NCAAB teams that have only played like 3-4 games because of multiple covid outbreaks. The number of NBA games that are being postponed. To me it’s so dangerous that these athletes are being potentially exposed to a virus that no one really knows the long term effects of, but which it appears may cause long term heart issues. Keyontae Johnson’s on-court collapse should have been the end of it, in my eyes. The “right” move is to shut it down, get everyone vaccinated, and make sure that everyone is safe before moving forward on contact sporting events which, by their nature, are superspreaders. That said, like I admitted above, I can selfishly admit that AEW has been massively important in helping me keep my sanity for the last 9 months, and I am happy that if they’re going to do it, they at least seem to be doing it as safely as possible. Yeah. I'm still sort of in the camp of "they should just do a month's worth shows in the can." But I'll admit that they've done a great job of avoiding outbreaks and such and it does seem like they've gone about it as well as can be expected.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 18, 2021 19:42:16 GMT -5
As much as people are saying wrestling shouldn't be happening, wrestling isn't the only thing that's happening, every sport is happening right now, and it's not all in Florida as much as people wanna also blame Florida. There are Playoff Games happening right now in various states in the NFL and some of them have a lot of fans in their stadiums. The "Wrestling shouldn't be happening, it's dangerous!" argument had more merit in like April, we're well past it shutting down, especially when WWE avoided it when they had the massive PC outbreak. They've tightened their ships and honestly controlled spread and incidents better than some current big sports have. That's saying something. I don’t disagree with you at all, but I don’t really think the other sports should be running like they are either. Look at all the NCAAB teams that have only played like 3-4 games because of multiple covid outbreaks. The number of NBA games that are being postponed. To me it’s so dangerous that these athletes are being potentially exposed to a virus that no one really knows the long term effects of, but which it appears may cause long term heart issues. Keyontae Johnson’s on-court collapse should have been the end of it, in my eyes. The “right” move is to shut it down, get everyone vaccinated, and make sure that everyone is safe before moving forward on contact sporting events which, by their nature, are superspreaders. That said, like I admitted above, I can selfishly admit that AEW has been massively important in helping me keep my sanity for the last 9 months, and I am happy that if they’re going to do it, they at least seem to be doing it as safely as possible. COVID is a case by case basis is the thing, it might cause problems in others and do nothing to others as well. It's as you said, no one is really going to know until later which can make people nervous as it is. But yeah, while they haven't been exempt from some of their workers getting it, AEW has really avoided massive outbreaks, and any serious incidents at Daily's Place and the bulk Georgia tapings alike, and it's been nice to see other wrestling companies getting their shit together after outbreaks as well. At the very least wrestling has adapted well, and I don't know if I expected it to be doing well after almost a year later of the pandemic still being here.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 19, 2021 9:30:14 GMT -5
Yea, no
Wrestling shouldn't be running. This carny sport has nothing on "legit sports" that's running. NBA went above and beyond to protect their players in the bubble and is the reason why fans are comfortable seeing the other sports in action. They aren't comparable
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Post by eJm on Jan 19, 2021 9:39:53 GMT -5
Yea, no Wrestling shouldn't be running. This carny sport has nothing on "legit sports" that's running. NBA went above and beyond to protect their players in the bubble and is the reason why fans are comfortable seeing the other sports in action. They aren't comparable I mean, in their defense, the NBA was the only legit sport doing that. As people have mentioned, the Premier League in the UK sucked at it, Baseball sucked at it, the NFL seems to suck at it and even the NBA now have more cases when they decided the bubble was something not to repeat for reasons that only they know (but probably has to do with $$$$$$$). To be blunt here, it's not even wrestling that shouldn't be running. Literally nothing should. The issue is that we've reached a point where even if wrestling wanted to stop running, the people in charge would go "Well, how about (insert live production here)? That's still running. You're still going" and the chance for that to have changed literally ended when Florida took their ball and went home.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 19, 2021 9:44:40 GMT -5
Yea, no Wrestling shouldn't be running. This carny sport has nothing on "legit sports" that's running. NBA went above and beyond to protect their players in the bubble and is the reason why fans are comfortable seeing the other sports in action. They aren't comparable I mean, in their defense, the NBA was the only legit sport doing that. As people have mentioned, the Premier League in the UK sucked at it, Baseball sucked at it, the NFL seems to suck at it and even the NBA now have more cases when they decided the bubble was something not to repeat for reasons that only they know (but probably has to do with $$$$$$$). To be blunt here, it's not even wrestling that shouldn't be running. Literally nothing should. The issue is that we've reached a point where even if wrestling wanted to stop running, the people in charge would go "Well, how about (insert live production here)? That's still running. You're still going" and the chance for that to have changed literally ended when Florida took their ball and went home. Players didn't want to do the bubble for a full season, the money wouldn't have mattered Also just the basic point I was making is when the NBA shut down, sports shut down. NCAAB cancelled March Madness. Baseball pushed back their season. NHL stopped. The only ones still running was the carnies in Dana in MMA and wrestling. There wasn't even a "rest period" in wrestling. Just a hope and a prayer to Satan this shit don't go left As I said from jump, wrestling has been playing fast and loose with this whole thing and is really lucky nothing has done real damage like God forbid someone dying after catching COVID on there watch
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Post by jason1980s on Jan 19, 2021 12:05:11 GMT -5
You seemed to be complaining about him “trolling fans on Raw” when he did the routine of coming out and not saying anything. That was his character. 1990s and early 2000s Jericho was extremely talented. He could have found someway to turn heel that night on Raw in 2011 besides standing there saying nothing. It wasn't even a cool way to get attention, to me it just seemed like his talent was gone. I had watched this guy for years and was a fan and loved how creative he could be. He created his character during the Attitude Era and in WCW while most guys relied on what "creative" had for them. I had just seen him at a book signing where he told a fan he would return but "it has to make sense" and to me nothing about the Raw return made sense. I stopped being a fan that night because I knew in a short period of time he had changed and I saw that changed over the next few years and now almost 10 years later. It's just disappointing.
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Lupin the Third
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Post by Lupin the Third on Jan 19, 2021 13:14:07 GMT -5
Yea, no Wrestling shouldn't be running. This carny sport has nothing on "legit sports" that's running. NBA went above and beyond to protect their players in the bubble and is the reason why fans are comfortable seeing the other sports in action. They aren't comparable I mean, in their defense, the NBA was the only legit sport doing that. As people have mentioned, the Premier League in the UK sucked at it, Baseball sucked at it, the NFL seems to suck at it and even the NBA now have more cases when they decided the bubble was something not to repeat for reasons that only they know (but probably has to do with $$$$$$$). To be blunt here, it's not even wrestling that shouldn't be running. Literally nothing should. The issue is that we've reached a point where even if wrestling wanted to stop running, the people in charge would go "Well, how about (insert live production here)? That's still running. You're still going" and the chance for that to have changed literally ended when Florida took their ball and went home. Actually, the NHL did a bubble for their playoffs. They're not doing one currently, but they did do a Bubble Playoff like the NBA. It's just the East Conference was all in one city and the West was all in another city.
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Post by Dub H on Jan 19, 2021 14:14:14 GMT -5
Nothing not essential should be running. That includes sports of any kind.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 19, 2021 14:21:28 GMT -5
I mean, in their defense, the NBA was the only legit sport doing that. As people have mentioned, the Premier League in the UK sucked at it, Baseball sucked at it, the NFL seems to suck at it and even the NBA now have more cases when they decided the bubble was something not to repeat for reasons that only they know (but probably has to do with $$$$$$$). To be blunt here, it's not even wrestling that shouldn't be running. Literally nothing should. The issue is that we've reached a point where even if wrestling wanted to stop running, the people in charge would go "Well, how about (insert live production here)? That's still running. You're still going" and the chance for that to have changed literally ended when Florida took their ball and went home. Players didn't want to do the bubble for a full season, the money wouldn't have mattered Also just the basic point I was making is when the NBA shut down, sports shut down. NCAAB cancelled March Madness. Baseball pushed back their season. NHL stopped. The only ones still running was the carnies in Dana in MMA and wrestling. There wasn't even a "rest period" in wrestling. Just a hope and a prayer to Satan this shit don't go left As I said from jump, wrestling has been playing fast and loose with this whole thing and is really lucky nothing has done real damage like God forbid someone dying after catching COVID on there watch In fairness, AEW did shut down for about a month very early in the pandemic after they marathoned through those tapings in Georgia. Impact also did block tapings and ROH and lot of indies were shut down entirely for months.
WWE's the only company that never really shut down in any capacity.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jan 19, 2021 14:23:11 GMT -5
I did not even know of this. God, Dana White is a scumbag. What's even more frustrating is that he's been going off on the media for doubting their ability to do cards during the pandemic. And most people were fine with them running at some point, they just wanted him to follow the proper protocols which they eventually did. He even made a video spread around by the UFC that specially names journalists who said they shouldn't be running in March which as we've seen, can put people in danger if the wrong person sees it. Doubted his ability? no Doubted his sanity? yes.
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