Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,299
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Post by Fade on Jun 14, 2021 13:53:11 GMT -5
Going off a "saw the T-shirt in the wild" standard CM Punk around the time of the pipebomb was the biggest thing since Austin 3:16 and until Bullet Club However, I will add that I also lived in Chicago at the time so that may have skewed things. I'd say that it holds up outside of Chicago. I saw my fair share of Punk shirts just around, in a way I actually can't remember ever seeing Cena shirts (which you'd think I'd have noticed at some point, given how bright most of them were). To give the devil his due, while I worked at Disneyland between 2011-2014 all WWE merchandise I saw were Cena shirts. Mainly on kids.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 14, 2021 13:58:44 GMT -5
I've seen tons of Cena shirts in the wild.
a lot of them on kids, but some on teens, and the darker colored shirts (especially the NES Wrestling parody) on adults.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jun 14, 2021 13:58:47 GMT -5
I'd say that it holds up outside of Chicago. I saw my fair share of Punk shirts just around, in a way I actually can't remember ever seeing Cena shirts (which you'd think I'd have noticed at some point, given how bright most of them were). To give the devil his due, while I worked at Disneyland between 2011-2014 all WWE merchandise I saw were Cena shirts. Mainly on kids. Thank you for adding that, I wondered how much my lack of seeing random children contributed to the impression.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jun 14, 2021 14:40:09 GMT -5
Where I live nobody wears wrestling shirts. Guess it's too dorky.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 14:48:27 GMT -5
I don't think him "embarrassing" himself in UFC or being a shitty friend to Colt Cabana really diminishes his legacy in the grand scheme of things. If he returned tomorrow no one would care about that stuff and he'd get a great reaction.
Doing the whole UFC thing in the first place definitely hurts his whole voice of the voiceless shtick though I think. You can't complain for years about part-timers coming in and taking main event spots on big shows, pushing hard working full-time guys aside, then go and do that exact same thing in MMA.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 14, 2021 14:54:51 GMT -5
If Hulk Hogan's legacy mostly survived intact doing some of the really shitty things he did, I think Punk's legacy can survive a joke of an MMA career and being an asshole to Colt Cabana.
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Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
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Post by Blade on Jun 14, 2021 16:28:37 GMT -5
People are misunderstanding some of what I meant about the multifaceted affect UFC had on his legacy. It's also because he cut however many promos complaining about lack of opportunity for hard working wrestlers, like himself, with main event spots taken by the undeserving famous people. And how exactly did Punk get a UFC contract? Like, it was his dream and they paid him. He would be an idiot to say no to the offer. I don't judge Phil Brooks, the person, for taking that chance. But he was a guy who cut shoot promos as a huge part of his gimmick. Promos about people doing in wrestling exactly what he did in UFC. It undermines what the character stands for. And this is exactly why I said everyone forgets that he acknowledged he was wrong about the Rock. He changed his mind. When he was still an active wrestler. Because he saw evidence that contradicted his previous viewpoint (and, it should be noted, he later worked with Rock). Then he accepted UFC's offer to be a special attraction and drew money for them. There is no contradiction here unless you conflate his wrestling character with himself as a human being. Like, you say you don't judge Phil Brooks for taking the offer but if you don't.... then what's the problem exactly? Does Brock Lesnar undermine his character if he stands in a line to buy groceries?
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jun 14, 2021 18:01:56 GMT -5
Going off a "saw the T-shirt in the wild" standard CM Punk around the time of the pipebomb was the biggest thing since Austin 3:16 and until Bullet Club However, I will add that I also lived in Chicago at the time so that may have skewed things. I'd say that it holds up outside of Chicago. I saw my fair share of Punk shirts just around, in a way I actually can't remember ever seeing Cena shirts (which you'd think I'd have noticed at some point, given how bright most of them were). I've seen plenty and I'll still see people with Cena shirts here and there, many of them adult (possibly because they grew up watching him, who knows). I live in the midwest though, and Chicago aside I know he's always had a strong pull with the center of the country.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,204
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 14, 2021 18:47:42 GMT -5
Where I live nobody wears wrestling shirts. Guess it's too dorky. Seen a few, obviously not getting out a lot lately, but seen some Bullet Club shirts at the mall, or YES YES YES Bryan ones.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Jun 14, 2021 18:55:39 GMT -5
Where I live nobody wears wrestling shirts. Guess it's too dorky. The majority of them suck...that’s the problem. Back in the day you could find enough guys wearing DX and nWo shirts to have a dance battle in a Pizza Hut parking lot.
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Post by joeiscool on Jun 14, 2021 21:46:43 GMT -5
Even if you look at it that way cm punk wasn't the only one. Daniel Bryan has been in the wwe just as long. Aj styles wasn't in the wwe as long but he's def been one of the bests as well. I won't say cm punk wasn't good. I think his greatness is more being the right place right time.. Punk had been in the WWE system for years and had held the WHC and ECW titles before Bryan's run, if I remember correctly. It's easy to go 'right place, right time', but they signed plenty of other Indie guys prior to Punk's success and none of them had his level of success. We saw how it went with Cabsna, Low Ki, Bryan in his first run, Jamie Noble, Kid Kash, Frankie Kazarian, Paul London, Bryan Kendrick... Hell, they only wanted AJ as a developmental cruiserweight... There was a glass ceiling for 'Indie' guys, most signed ended up rotting as cruiserweights, Punk broke through because he impressed in the ring amd on the mic, and others followed, and that was because of his hard work and that made things easier for others to get their chance. What you are specifically describing is an incredibly nuanced thing. What a lot would consider an indy wrestler has largely only existed since 2001 cm punk came to wwe tv in 2006. So we're largely talking about a 5 year period of not knowing if "indy wrestlers" would succeed in the wwe. Looking back now at the current landscape it's basically when it would have happened vs if. Before 2001 there was wcw, and ecw. If the person wrestled for a promotion that was not those 2 it basically didn't matter.
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Post by joeiscool on Jun 14, 2021 22:00:01 GMT -5
Punk had been in the WWE system for years and had held the WHC and ECW titles before Bryan's run, if I remember correctly. It's easy to go 'right place, right time', but they signed plenty of other Indie guys prior to Punk's success and none of them had his level of success. We saw how it went with Cabsna, Low Ki, Bryan in his first run, Jamie Noble, Kid Kash, Frankie Kazarian, Paul London, Bryan Kendrick... Hell, they only wanted AJ as a developmental cruiserweight... There was a glass ceiling for 'Indie' guys, most signed ended up rotting as cruiserweights, Punk broke through because he impressed in the ring amd on the mic, and others followed, and that was because of his hard work and that made things easier for others to get their chance. What you are specifically describing is an incredibly nuanced thing. What a lot would consider an indy wrestler has largely only existed since 2001 cm punk came to wwe tv in 2006. So we're largely talking about a 5 year period of not knowing if "indy wrestlers" would succeed in the wwe. Looking back now at the current landscape it's basically when it would have happened vs if. Before 2001 there was wcw, and ecw. If the person wrestled for a promotion that was not those 2 it basically didn't matter. continued So wrestlers like Rey Mysterio, RVD, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho and Eddie Guerrero would have almost certainly had been considered indy wrestlers had there not been Wcw or Ecw.... I would also venture to say they all had better careers than cm punk.
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adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Jun 14, 2021 22:20:46 GMT -5
His MMA skills did more damage than WWE ever could have dragging his name through the mud
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adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Jun 14, 2021 22:28:06 GMT -5
I’ll raise you one
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jun 15, 2021 3:02:16 GMT -5
What you are specifically describing is an incredibly nuanced thing. What a lot would consider an indy wrestler has largely only existed since 2001 cm punk came to wwe tv in 2006. So we're largely talking about a 5 year period of not knowing if "indy wrestlers" would succeed in the wwe. Looking back now at the current landscape it's basically when it would have happened vs if. Before 2001 there was wcw, and ecw. If the person wrestled for a promotion that was not those 2 it basically didn't matter. continued So wrestlers like Rey Mysterio, RVD, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho and Eddie Guerrero would have almost certainly had been considered indy wrestlers had there not been Wcw or Ecw.... I would also venture to say they all had better careers than cm punk. All of those guys were pushed by major promotions, had exposure to an international audience, none of them would have gotten the push they'd gotten if other major promotions hadn't already made them into stars, there was no WCW or ECW for the 2000s indie talent. What there was, was a very real degree of snobbery against them, short or skinny guys with no psychology, suitable only for cruiserweight matches and getting squashed by Snitskys. They signed indie talent from the same scene, the same promotions as Punk, but he was the one who proved they had more value than just cruiserweight job guys and he absolutely deserves credit for that, for succeeding in an environment that wanted a certain look and style. Seriously, look at the main eventers, they wanted a certain type of athlete that Punk certainly was not, even Eddie, Rey, Benoit and Angle were jacked to the gills compared to Punk.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jun 15, 2021 6:04:53 GMT -5
CM Punk, to me, is a guy forever tarnished by the fact that he got humiliated in the UFC, especially by a guy widely considered a tomato can. Yes, all WWE entertainers would get destroyed in the UFC, but that's why they stay away, and we never have to see that. In Punk's case, we saw it. And I will never ever be able to take him seriously as a wrestler again. As far as I'm concerned, he should just stay away. Also, he is a massive whiner and seems like an idiot, so I don't miss him. I remember checking the ratings during his title reign back in the day, and people would change the channel when he was on. Multiple times. Punk was never as over as people make him out to be; the arena reactions are never the whole story in modern day WWE. He was a good talker, a very good talker. That's about it. He was always sloppy and botch prone in the ring, he seemed to never really be able to figure out what his style was, or what he represented. He had great chemistry with a few guys, namely John Cena, but it was Cena carrying Punk to those classics, not the other way around. John Cena, the most underrated wrestler in history. Punk has his place in history, he was a pretty cool character and definitely one of the better promos in the post-Rock and Austin era, but he was not the guy, and he was never going to be the guy. While I never felt Punk was bad in the ring or needed to be carried, I do believe that Cena in some respects still hasn’t gotten the credit for how much he contributed to the success of their matches/programs. Some Punk fans paint Cena as this warm body Punk just bounced off of, or just a generic company figurehead, as if any fool could have played that role. Not true in the slightest. John had the storytelling ability and panache on interviews to make that feud must-see. The promo he cut with Vince where he demanded Punk get the match doesn’t get enough love.
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Post by cornettesracket on Jun 15, 2021 6:09:24 GMT -5
It’s amazing to think it’s coming up on the tenth anniversary of the pipebomb promo and the summer of punk. I don’t know if there’s an consensus start point for the summer of punk the promo with vince in the ring surely has to be up there. And there’s MITB 2011 in Chicago which is utterly brilliant.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,756
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Post by lucas_lee on Jun 15, 2021 6:53:14 GMT -5
Hes an ATG in the industry. His mic skills were God-tier and his wrestling wasn't bad either. And I wouldn't hold his mma career against if we did, we'd be clowning Yuji Nagata, Shibata, Alberto Del Rio, Lashley, and others
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Jun 15, 2021 12:38:04 GMT -5
continued So wrestlers like Rey Mysterio, RVD, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho and Eddie Guerrero would have almost certainly had been considered indy wrestlers had there not been Wcw or Ecw.... I would also venture to say they all had better careers than cm punk. All of those guys were pushed by major promotions, had exposure to an international audience, none of them would have gotten the push they'd gotten if other major promotions hadn't already made them into stars, there was no WCW or ECW for the 2000s indie talent. What there was, was a very real degree of snobbery against them, short or skinny guys with no psychology, suitable only for cruiserweight matches and getting squashed by Snitskys. They signed indie talent from the same scene, the same promotions as Punk, but he was the one who proved they had more value than just cruiserweight job guys and he absolutely deserves credit for that, for succeeding in an environment that wanted a certain look and style. Seriously, look at the main eventers, they wanted a certain type of athlete that Punk certainly was not, even Eddie, Rey, Benoit and Angle were jacked to the gills compared to Punk. Punk looked like someone who never stepped inside a gym. Wrestling is based on looks as much as in-ring and promo ability. None of the Shield members are jacked to the gills, and neither is Daniel Bryan but they all look well-built, tough and athletic, and they are a similar size to Punk. It wouldn't have hurt Punk to pile on some natural muscle mass, but its a moot point given his success in wrestling.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jun 15, 2021 13:57:29 GMT -5
All of those guys were pushed by major promotions, had exposure to an international audience, none of them would have gotten the push they'd gotten if other major promotions hadn't already made them into stars, there was no WCW or ECW for the 2000s indie talent. What there was, was a very real degree of snobbery against them, short or skinny guys with no psychology, suitable only for cruiserweight matches and getting squashed by Snitskys. They signed indie talent from the same scene, the same promotions as Punk, but he was the one who proved they had more value than just cruiserweight job guys and he absolutely deserves credit for that, for succeeding in an environment that wanted a certain look and style. Seriously, look at the main eventers, they wanted a certain type of athlete that Punk certainly was not, even Eddie, Rey, Benoit and Angle were jacked to the gills compared to Punk. Punk looked like someone who never stepped inside a gym. Wrestling is based on looks as much as in-ring and promo ability. None of the Shield members are jacked to the gills, and neither is Daniel Bryan but they all look well-built, tough and athletic, and they are a similar size to Punk. It wouldn't have hurt Punk to pile on some natural muscle mass, but its a moot point given his success in wrestling. I mean Jake Roberts was never in the greatest shape either and nobody ever complains about that.
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