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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Oct 7, 2021 7:11:09 GMT -5
I honestly try to be open minded with gimmicks that I actively dislike. I've never enjoyed this Alexa stuff. But it's over in some ways (especially when she's not using magic) so I'll at least tolerate it and respect it. The problem for Gacy right now is that he's getting almost no reaction for these promos. Nothing. It's one thing to have a gimmick I find to be in bad taste. It's another thing to have that and not be over. And I don't think giving it more time will fix the problem. What would the appropriate reaction even be? He's clearly supposed to be a heel, but all his heeling consists of saying things that either are uncontroversially good or a very large proportion of the audience thinks is good. Bemusement is the only reasonable reaction to seeing a guy saying "Doesn't it just make you hate me that I think people should solve their disagreements without using violence??" You need to bring a sign that says "I am booing your insincerity! Not your message!"
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
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Post by FinalGwen on Oct 7, 2021 7:33:57 GMT -5
Remember that one guy who posted here and said he was going to personally get ride of the Jack Swagger/Zeb militant tea party gimmick because he was a WWE shareholder? And responded to every single mention of the character with "it's going bye-bye?" Man, that was a weird time for the board. We got too attached to that gimmick.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 22,896
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Post by Legion on Oct 7, 2021 7:40:21 GMT -5
I think commentary sold me on the gimmick tonight, or at least give me a reason to think 'Ok, I'll see where this goes' just because Beth and Barrett literally reminded me of this thread and the people on either side of what the gimmick could be I missed it; what'd they say? You had Barrett trying to sell it as legit and genuine, while Beth was saying it was dumb and false and he was just trolling people badly. Commentary on NXT give 0 shits, they just rip in to people and make all sorts of dirty sex jokes too
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Dan Royal
AC Slater
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Posts: 212
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Post by Dan Royal on Oct 7, 2021 7:55:28 GMT -5
For me, the gimmick so far falls flat. I'd be all for a self-righteous, slaktivist, preachy SJW character. But Joe Gacy just seems like a dumbed-down, generic version of one. Whether it's the writing or his delivery, it's just off.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Oct 7, 2021 8:15:34 GMT -5
A strawman character gets the reaction you'd expect if they'd put a man made of straw out there. Shocking.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
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I ❤ Aniki
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Post by Dub H on Oct 7, 2021 8:47:42 GMT -5
For me, the gimmick so far falls flat. I'd be all for a self-righteous, slaktivist, preachy SJW character. But Joe Gacy just seems like a dumbed-down, generic version of one. Whether it's the writing or his delivery, it's just off. Yeh the issue isnt anl "" SJW "" character,look at PC Principal from South Park,it can work. WWE very likely cant make a good.one
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Post by mrtuesday on Oct 7, 2021 9:29:52 GMT -5
For me, the gimmick so far falls flat. I'd be all for a self-righteous, slaktivist, preachy SJW character. But Joe Gacy just seems like a dumbed-down, generic version of one. Whether it's the writing or his delivery, it's just off. Yeh the issue isnt anl "" SJW "" character,look at PC Principal from South Park,it can work. WWE very likely cant make a good.one It requires subtlety. Something WWE has never been good at.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Oct 7, 2021 12:51:05 GMT -5
What would the appropriate reaction even be? He's clearly supposed to be a heel, but all his heeling consists of saying things that either are uncontroversially good or a very large proportion of the audience thinks is good. Bemusement is the only reasonable reaction to seeing a guy saying "Doesn't it just make you hate me that I think people should solve their disagreements without using violence??" You need to bring a sign that says "I am booing your insincerity! Not your message!" But he's NOT INSINCERE. I'm a little mystified by everyone saying "The key is, he's an insincere hypocrite," when he's been out there for weeks trying to be a heel and not doing anything hypocritical or insincere! Like, it's just very apparent that the SJWness is the heelness. He might ALSO turn out to be a hypocrite, but that is absolutely not the heel heat they've been going for so far. Also, ugh, PC Principal is many steps up from Joe Gacy, but when that's everyone's go-to for a nuanced satirical take on these issues, it's showing how truly hard this is to do. Honestly, the only good comedic take-downs I've seen have been from people who are clearly sympathetic to social justice themselves, because they know enough about it to make a point that has any depth to it or has enough detail to ring at all true or feels current. Like, Bojack Horseman has some great stuff there, skewering certain perspectives brutally, and it works because it's specific and lived-in.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
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Post by Chiral on Oct 7, 2021 15:07:22 GMT -5
INT. BACKSTAGE AT CWC
Bron Breakker is walking around. Joe Gacy approaches him holding a flower, a subtle way of cluing in the WWE UNIVERSE™ of his inherent weakness as a human being.
JOE GACY Hello. I'd like to talk to you about INCLUSIVITY!
[PAUSE FOR BOOS]
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,806
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Post by hassanchop on Oct 7, 2021 19:55:06 GMT -5
He should go full Ludvig Borga and talk about pollution and go to some rundown building in some undisclosed location and tell the crowd how it's crumbling like America is crumbling.
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Oct 7, 2021 20:24:31 GMT -5
For me, the gimmick so far falls flat. I'd be all for a self-righteous, slaktivist, preachy SJW character. But Joe Gacy just seems like a dumbed-down, generic version of one. Whether it's the writing or his delivery, it's just off. They should make it into a faction like the RTC.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,200
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Oct 7, 2021 20:27:47 GMT -5
You need to bring a sign that says "I am booing your insincerity! Not your message!" But he's NOT INSINCERE. I'm a little mystified by everyone saying "The key is, he's an insincere hypocrite," when he's been out there for weeks trying to be a heel and not doing anything hypocritical or insincere! Like, it's just very apparent that the SJWness is the heelness. He might ALSO turn out to be a hypocrite, but that is absolutely not the heel heat they've been going for so far. Also, ugh, PC Principal is many steps up from Joe Gacy, but when that's everyone's go-to for a nuanced satirical take on these issues, it's showing how truly hard this is to do. Honestly, the only good comedic take-downs I've seen have been from people who are clearly sympathetic to social justice themselves, because they know enough about it to make a point that has any depth to it or has enough detail to ring at all true or feels current. Like, Bojack Horseman has some great stuff there, skewering certain perspectives brutally, and it works because it's specific and lived-in. And this is where Vince and his yes-men fall flat. If they want Gacy to actually come off as scummy, he has to be presented as using his public persona to put down people who did nothing to deserve it, to slip away from his message when it would benefit him, etc. He hasn't really done that, so far. The Writers just expect the audience to find him obnoxious as he is. And it takes more than that.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 7, 2021 20:34:48 GMT -5
You need to bring a sign that says "I am booing your insincerity! Not your message!" But he's NOT INSINCERE. I'm a little mystified by everyone saying "The key is, he's an insincere hypocrite," when he's been out there for weeks trying to be a heel and not doing anything hypocritical or insincere! Like, it's just very apparent that the SJWness is the heelness. He might ALSO turn out to be a hypocrite, but that is absolutely not the heel heat they've been going for so far. Also, ugh, PC Principal is many steps up from Joe Gacy, but when that's everyone's go-to for a nuanced satirical take on these issues, it's showing how truly hard this is to do. Honestly, the only good comedic take-downs I've seen have been from people who are clearly sympathetic to social justice themselves, because they know enough about it to make a point that has any depth to it or has enough detail to ring at all true or feels current. Like, Bojack Horseman has some great stuff there, skewering certain perspectives brutally, and it works because it's specific and lived-in. Yeah, I'm not expecting the same creative minds who gave us Retribution to give us an SJW heel gimmick where the reason they're a heel is the insincerity.
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Post by Starshine on Oct 7, 2021 20:42:31 GMT -5
But he's NOT INSINCERE. I'm a little mystified by everyone saying "The key is, he's an insincere hypocrite," when he's been out there for weeks trying to be a heel and not doing anything hypocritical or insincere! Like, it's just very apparent that the SJWness is the heelness. He might ALSO turn out to be a hypocrite, but that is absolutely not the heel heat they've been going for so far. Also, ugh, PC Principal is many steps up from Joe Gacy, but when that's everyone's go-to for a nuanced satirical take on these issues, it's showing how truly hard this is to do. Honestly, the only good comedic take-downs I've seen have been from people who are clearly sympathetic to social justice themselves, because they know enough about it to make a point that has any depth to it or has enough detail to ring at all true or feels current. Like, Bojack Horseman has some great stuff there, skewering certain perspectives brutally, and it works because it's specific and lived-in. And this is where Vince and his yes-men fall flat. If they want Gacy to actually come off as scummy, he has to be presented as using his public persona to put down people who did nothing to deserve it, to slip away from his message when it would benefit him, etc. He hasn't really done that, so far. The Writers just expect the audience to find him obnoxious as he is. And it takes more than that. Well considering the current median NXT age, making the woke guy a heel is totally on brand for that general TV audience. I just don't know how they expect to appeal to the youth by pushing gimmicks like this.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Oct 7, 2021 21:04:59 GMT -5
Remember that one guy who posted here and said he was going to personally get ride of the Jack Swagger/Zeb militant tea party gimmick because he was a WWE shareholder? And responded to every single mention of the character with "it's going bye-bye?" Man, that was a weird time for the board. We got too attached to that gimmick. Oh my god the shareholder. I literally haven't thought of that in years.
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Post by zero744 on Oct 7, 2021 21:28:18 GMT -5
I remember when he was “sloppy Joe”
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Post by polarbearpete on Oct 7, 2021 23:03:01 GMT -5
You need to bring a sign that says "I am booing your insincerity! Not your message!" But he's NOT INSINCERE. I'm a little mystified by everyone saying "The key is, he's an insincere hypocrite," when he's been out there for weeks trying to be a heel and not doing anything hypocritical or insincere! Like, it's just very apparent that the SJWness is the heelness. He might ALSO turn out to be a hypocrite, but that is absolutely not the heel heat they've been going for so far. Also, ugh, PC Principal is many steps up from Joe Gacy, but when that's everyone's go-to for a nuanced satirical take on these issues, it's showing how truly hard this is to do. Honestly, the only good comedic take-downs I've seen have been from people who are clearly sympathetic to social justice themselves, because they know enough about it to make a point that has any depth to it or has enough detail to ring at all true or feels current. Like, Bojack Horseman has some great stuff there, skewering certain perspectives brutally, and it works because it's specific and lived-in. Him being insincere was the story that the face commentator Beth was putting over on commentary this week.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Oct 7, 2021 23:34:36 GMT -5
But he's NOT INSINCERE. I'm a little mystified by everyone saying "The key is, he's an insincere hypocrite," when he's been out there for weeks trying to be a heel and not doing anything hypocritical or insincere! Like, it's just very apparent that the SJWness is the heelness. He might ALSO turn out to be a hypocrite, but that is absolutely not the heel heat they've been going for so far. Also, ugh, PC Principal is many steps up from Joe Gacy, but when that's everyone's go-to for a nuanced satirical take on these issues, it's showing how truly hard this is to do. Honestly, the only good comedic take-downs I've seen have been from people who are clearly sympathetic to social justice themselves, because they know enough about it to make a point that has any depth to it or has enough detail to ring at all true or feels current. Like, Bojack Horseman has some great stuff there, skewering certain perspectives brutally, and it works because it's specific and lived-in. Him being insincere was the story that the face commentator Beth was putting over on commentary this week. This is actually really interesting, like, sociologically. The SJWness is there to be booed. In fact, they might think that if they go too hard on him being insincere, then it'd make him just another generic heel, and it'd lose the main point (and they run the risk of suggesting SJWness is actually good if it's sincere). But they can't have the face commentator say "Ugh, what an annoying jerk talking about horrible things like inclusivity," because that's obviously not what a face would say. So they have to put him out there to say this stuff straight, trying to get booed, while meanwhile the face announcer tells-not-shows us about the unrelated reason why we should boo him.
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Post by polarbearpete on Oct 8, 2021 6:36:41 GMT -5
Him being insincere was the story that the face commentator Beth was putting over on commentary this week. This is actually really interesting, like, sociologically. The SJWness is there to be booed. In fact, they might think that if they go too hard on him being insincere, then it'd make him just another generic heel, and it'd lose the main point (and they run the risk of suggesting SJWness is actually good if it's sincere). But they can't have the face commentator say "Ugh, what an annoying jerk talking about horrible things like inclusivity," because that's obviously not what a face would say. So they have to put him out there to say this stuff straight, trying to get booed, while meanwhile the face announcer tells-not-shows us about the unrelated reason why we should boo him. I’m not sure it’s that deep. I just think the character is that he’s insincere. You said he’s there playing it straight but his delivery and tone is done in a way that he seems insincere and a little deranged, like a Waylon Mercy type delivery.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Oct 8, 2021 9:41:22 GMT -5
I usually don't feed traffic up to WWE's official channel, but I had to see him for myself, pulled up a video from last week, and yeah I'm really not seeing the hard derangement insincerity either. Dude sounds like he's a WWE heel cutting a promo using those words, there's so little in the cadence that doesn't feel like a bog standard "you people" promo. What I did see are tons of comments from people who are absolutely living for WWE's pushback against the woke forces of pro wrestling, including one comment insisting his use of the word impact is to slag off the presumably SJW-driven Impact Wrestling. I'm really not seeing the insincerity here, I'm seeing a bad political cartoon bloviating around with a bunch of terms the writers don't understand, strung together with little clear direction. We're not seeing him say 95% of the right stuff and then have that weird moment where that breaks. These are just halting heel promos.
That also still doesn't even solve the issue of like. Is the heelness being insincere with good things, or is it being insincere with these things? Because there's no cracks, there's no people he's pressing his bad intentions onto, there aren't even really any bad intentions with what he's saying being expressed. This gimmick is indistinguishable right now from a strawman of these beliefs, and it continues to play oddly well and come across as suspiciously genuine to people who have a reason to want to boo a character like this.
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