fg
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Post by fg on Jan 26, 2022 18:14:55 GMT -5
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john84
Fry's dog Seymour
Proud Father of 3 :)
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Post by john84 on Jan 26, 2022 18:31:25 GMT -5
Didn't help that instead of pulling the trigger with him as quickly as he did with Hulk, he instead had him beat Yokozuna via countout Summer Slam instead of putting the belt on him.
But yeah, Bret's popularity was way bigger.
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Squirrel Master
Hank Scorpio
"Then the Squirrel Master came out of left field and told me I'm his bitch!"
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Post by Squirrel Master on Jan 27, 2022 0:53:32 GMT -5
They clearly had big things in store for Lex Luger initially.
Bret Hart had all of Lex’s strengths so Lex was only gonna go so far anyway. Perhaps Luger was wise to return to WCW.
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Post by eudypfohl on Jan 27, 2022 1:21:48 GMT -5
For the kind of build up they gave him, it's pretty shocking that he wasn't the champion for even one of those two or three week micro reigns. Yes Bret was more popular (and remember Bret was the Canadian, Lex the All American and Bret was STILL more popular in the states) but Lex was over enough and had sufficient momentum to at least put the belt on him and see how it goes
I understand the Mr. Perfect screwjob at WMX to set up the coming Hennig/Luger feud (which went bust anyway when Perfects back acted up) Really I think it would've been best to have Luger win the belt off of Yoko and then drop to Bret clean later that night. Instead Yoko retains yet again, and the big guy has to wrestle once more already blown up. Luger/Bret at MSG for the title would've been a better match.
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auph10imitated
Dennis Stamp
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Post by auph10imitated on Jan 27, 2022 11:31:51 GMT -5
I always wonder was it the fact that Bret was more over that hurt Luger, or was he just a bad babyface, and I have to go with the latter, he was just a natural heel. I mean he had a few hot babyface moments when pitted against a strong heel (Yoko in 1993 and Hollywood in 1997) but other than that, there was always more charismatic babyfaces around him. Hogan, Warrior and Savage were all a million times charismatic than Luger.
He was a great arrogant heel though and I think his WWF run would have been more successful had they kept him that way.
I feel like The New Generation (1993) all of the babyfaces were the old guard (Hart, Perfect, Savage, Undertaker etc) and all the incoming lot were heels (Yoko, Lex, Razor, Bam Bam etc) this is why they should have utilized the likes of Perfect and Savage to put these heels over more.
Lex should have been built as the heel champion and not Yoko, because Yoko already had that Andre style unique monster heel that didn't necessarily need to be a champion, just a killer heel.
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Post by Super Nintenjoe KBD on Jan 27, 2022 11:56:08 GMT -5
At least they got Steve Austin becoming champ correct! Just not in WCW.
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Post by jason1980s on Jan 27, 2022 11:57:01 GMT -5
Lex should have been built as the heel champion and not Yoko, because Yoko already had that Andre style unique monster heel that didn't necessarily need to be a champion, just a killer heel. Good point. If they had been able to use him as a wrestler just two months prior to the rumble he could have been built up as the main guy and win it. And then the next year or two go against the top good guys. I would think with his body, Vince would have wanted to turn him good at some point. That's a good guy body if there ever was one, to Vince. |
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tafkaga
Don Corleone
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Post by tafkaga on Jan 27, 2022 12:05:12 GMT -5
I always wonder was it the fact that Bret was more over that hurt Luger, or was he just a bad babyface, and I have to go with the latter, he was just a natural heel. I mean he had a few hot babyface moments when pitted against a strong heel (Yoko in 1993 and Hollywood in 1997) but other than that, there was always more charismatic babyfaces around him. Hogan, Warrior and Savage were all a million times charismatic than Luger. He was a great arrogant heel though and I think his WWF run would have been more successful had they kept him that way. I feel like The New Generation (1993) all of the babyfaces were the old guard (Hart, Perfect, Savage, Undertaker etc) and all the incoming lot were heels (Yoko, Lex, Razor, Bam Bam etc) this is why they should have utilized the likes of Perfect and Savage to put these heels over more. Lex should have been built as the heel champion and not Yoko, because Yoko already had that Andre style unique monster heel that didn't necessarily need to be a champion, just a killer heel. Yep yep yep. No disrespect to Yoko, but Lex as heel champ had so much more potential for elevating Bret and their other babyfaces. One of the great missed opportunities imo. I don't even think it's so much a charisma problem as it was a poor use of his strengths. He was a fish out of water as WWF's babyface caricature and it was obvious that he was just far more comfortable as a performer in WCW. |
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john84
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by john84 on Jan 27, 2022 12:25:58 GMT -5
They clearly had big things in store for Lex Luger initially. Bret Hart had all of Lex’s strengths so Lex was only gonna go so far anyway. Perhaps Luger was wise to return to WCW. He was totally wise to return to WCW IMO. He just seemed more at ease and fitted in more naturally there then he did at WWE. |
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john84
Fry's dog Seymour
Proud Father of 3 :)
Posts: 22,629
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Post by john84 on Jan 27, 2022 12:38:59 GMT -5
I always wonder was it the fact that Bret was more over that hurt Luger, or was he just a bad babyface, and I have to go with the latter, he was just a natural heel. I mean he had a few hot babyface moments when pitted against a strong heel (Yoko in 1993 and Hollywood in 1997) but other than that, there was always more charismatic babyfaces around him. Hogan, Warrior and Savage were all a million times charismatic than Luger. He was a great arrogant heel though and I think his WWF run would have been more successful had they kept him that way. I feel like The New Generation (1993) all of the babyfaces were the old guard (Hart, Perfect, Savage, Undertaker etc) and all the incoming lot were heels (Yoko, Lex, Razor, Bam Bam etc) this is why they should have utilized the likes of Perfect and Savage to put these heels over more. Lex should have been built as the heel champion and not Yoko, because Yoko already had that Andre style unique monster heel that didn't necessarily need to be a champion, just a killer heel. Luger v Hart would've been a better way to end Mania I agree. Having said that I believe personally that the damage to Lex was done at Summer Slam. I don't think his character ever recovered or even looked like recovering from that. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 27, 2022 13:45:20 GMT -5
Lex did the best he could really, he just wasn't at all a fit for that character and he was never a guy that was going to give you a great, or even compelling, promo.
That's more their fault than his for trying to force a square peg into a round hole. He could have been a decent main event guy for at least a while if they'd played to his strengths instead&stuck with something along the lines of his Narcissist character ala a Rick Rude kind of thing. Keep Heenan as his manager or Cornette or really anyone that could do most of his talking and you'd have a good heel champ.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 27, 2022 13:50:03 GMT -5
Hell, you could have him beat Yoko and then reveal his whole All Anerican shtick was a ruse to get a title shot and these idiot fans bought it and like that.
Have him fight some mid level faces like say Duggan and beat em handily, meanwhile Bret wins the Rumble and that's the Mania match and torch passed.
That way you get to Bret as the main guy that it was going toward anyway, and Lex is always a threat near the top of the card.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Jan 27, 2022 13:50:52 GMT -5
I do wonder if they weren't wanting to do so many title changes in one year with Yoko not having the Mania to SS reign. With Bret to essentially Hogan thorugh Yoko , to Yoko being done already and it cut down the time Yoko would be a dominate heel champ they got gun shy about it.
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Post by Aceorton on Jan 27, 2022 14:00:52 GMT -5
I always wonder was it the fact that Bret was more over that hurt Luger, or was he just a bad babyface, and I have to go with the latter, he was just a natural heel. I mean he had a few hot babyface moments when pitted against a strong heel (Yoko in 1993 and Hollywood in 1997) but other than that, there was always more charismatic babyfaces around him. Hogan, Warrior and Savage were all a million times charismatic than Luger. He was a great arrogant heel though and I think his WWF run would have been more successful had they kept him that way. I feel like The New Generation (1993) all of the babyfaces were the old guard (Hart, Perfect, Savage, Undertaker etc) and all the incoming lot were heels (Yoko, Lex, Razor, Bam Bam etc) this is why they should have utilized the likes of Perfect and Savage to put these heels over more. Lex should have been built as the heel champion and not Yoko, because Yoko already had that Andre style unique monster heel that didn't necessarily need to be a champion, just a killer heel. Yep yep yep. No disrespect to Yoko, but Lex as heel champ had so much more potential for elevating Bret and their other babyfaces. One of the great missed opportunities imo. I don't even think it's so much a charisma problem as it was a poor use of his strengths. He was a fish out of water as WWF's babyface caricature and it was obvious that he was just far more comfortable as a performer in WCW. The dumb initial gimmick idea ("The Narcissist") was their first screw-up. If Luger had come in as the same ol' normal, arrogant Lex Luger he'd been for years in NWA/WCW, he would have had loads more credibility as a main-event heel from Moment 1. Instead, he had more of an upper midcard feel, even when he was working with Perfect and Bret. It wasn't like when Flair arrived in '91 and everybody went, "Oh, dammmmmn. Flair is here," knowing he'd soon be feuding with Hogan. Mistake 2 was using him as the babyface stopgap when Hogan left, but even that was salvageable. All they really needed to do was have Lex start gradually behaving like a dick again after failing to win the belt at SummerSlam. The Rumble ends up being his one loophole to getting another title shot against Yoko, but then Bret messes up the plan with the co-winner thing and the WM10 triumph. Lex flips out on Bret the night after WrestleMania, and we have the old Lex back. The timing would have complicated the Bret-Owen feud but also could have provided a nice wrinkle where Owen's interference causes Bret to lose the belt to Luger, perhaps at KOTR '94, the same night Owen wins the tournament. Now the Hart vs. Hart feud is as much about Bret wanting payback against his jackass brother for screwing him out of the title as it is about Owen trying to prove he's better. |
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Jan 27, 2022 14:16:07 GMT -5
Didn't help that instead of pulling the trigger with him as quickly as he did with Hulk, he instead had him beat Yokozuna via countout Summer Slam instead of putting the belt on him. But yeah, Bret's popularity was way bigger. If you put the belt on Luger at all, you'd basically have Diesel's run a couple of years early, with Bret being more popular and the bigger draw than the actual champion. |
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john84
Fry's dog Seymour
Proud Father of 3 :)
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Post by john84 on Jan 27, 2022 14:25:39 GMT -5
Didn't help that instead of pulling the trigger with him as quickly as he did with Hulk, he instead had him beat Yokozuna via countout Summer Slam instead of putting the belt on him. But yeah, Bret's popularity was way bigger. If you put the belt on Luger at all, you'd basically have Diesel's run a couple of years early, with Bret being more popular and the bigger draw than the actual champion. If ever there was a time to put the belt on Lex it was Summer Slam because that was when he was his most over at the WWE IMO. Yes, obviously Bret was far more popular but if Lex was going to ever have any chance of being taken seriously as a top guy he needed to win the belt against Yoko at Summer Slam. But for whatever reason they didn't pull the trigger at Slam and that killed Luger's momentum IMO  I'm not even a Luger fan  |
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tafkaga
Don Corleone
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Post by tafkaga on Jan 27, 2022 14:44:29 GMT -5
Didn't help that instead of pulling the trigger with him as quickly as he did with Hulk, he instead had him beat Yokozuna via countout Summer Slam instead of putting the belt on him. But yeah, Bret's popularity was way bigger. If you put the belt on Luger at all, you'd basically have Diesel's run a couple of years early, with Bret being more popular and the bigger draw than the actual champion. I don't know about a Luger title run being the same as a Diesel run. Luger had been a big name in wrestling for years before he came to the WWF, a main eventer, the longest reigning US Champion, and a World champion. Diesel's career had been a series of wrestlecrap characters, and he was only about a year into a push when he won the belt. He was still making a name for himself, whereas Luger was one of the biggest names in American wrestling before stepping foot in the WWF. Not saying Luger would have been a bigger draw than Bret, but most of the excitement of "omg Lex Luger is in the WWF" was castrated the moment he was introduced by Heenan as "Narcissus" and stepped out wearing frilly shorts. |
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Post by nickcave on Jan 27, 2022 15:03:39 GMT -5
Lex was only as good as his heel foil and he just didn't have any, that's why he was one of the most over wrestlers in the world up against Hogan in 97 but a dud most other times
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Wieners=$$$
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Post by Wieners=$$$ on Jan 27, 2022 15:17:27 GMT -5
Fixed it haha  |
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hassanchop
Grimlock
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Post by hassanchop on Jan 27, 2022 20:02:34 GMT -5
It was kinda right about Austin at least we’ll after he left for WWF
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