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Post by Cyno on Feb 11, 2022 0:11:09 GMT -5
So have writers do anything but actually write and instead do things they aren't remotely qualified for? Okay then... It’s the writers jobs to help wrestlers with character and storylines. But what they really need is coordinators/assistants or something to help international wrestlers get acclimated to the company and for a home. So in that instance, writers is probably not the right term. You need like, actual training for ESL education (which is probably what he meant as opposed to American Sign Language). If anything, you don't have someone who is qualified to teach and you could end up doing more harm than good. Hire an actual teacher for that (seriously, they could use the money). Barring that, a full-time interpreter is probably more useful for day-to-day business.
Writers aren't also necessarily going to know the Jacksonville real estate market, either. They could be new to the area themselves or don't even live in the area because of a travel schedule. That's what a competent HR department would have or even have talent local to the area to hook them up with a real estate agent.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 11, 2022 0:51:47 GMT -5
It’s the writers jobs to help wrestlers with character and storylines. But what they really need is coordinators/assistants or something to help international wrestlers get acclimated to the company and for a home. So in that instance, writers is probably not the right term. You need like, actual training for ESL education (which is probably what he meant as opposed to American Sign Language). If anything, you don't have someone who is qualified to teach and you could end up doing more harm than good. Hire an actual teacher for that (seriously, they could use the money). Barring that, a full-time interpreter is probably more useful for day-to-day business.
Writers aren't also necessarily going to know the Jacksonville real estate market, either. They could be new to the area themselves or don't even live in the area because of a travel schedule. That's what a competent HR department would have or even have talent local to the area to hook them up with a real estate agent.
Even if not hiring a Japanese teacher, there's almost definitely English classes out there and Tony could simply enroll someone in those. Hell there may even be specifically-scheduled business sector classes with a school they could make arrangements with. A local real estate firm they tag to handle all their inbound stuff? Same deal. AEW has the money and they should be working with this, and I honestly think stuff like "oh yeah Nakazawa does that kind of thing" is not ideal. Nakazawa could I'm sure be helpful as a middleman for like at-show kind of stuff, and I know he has that role for stuff he's done for American wrestlers going to Japan for a spell, but really should have professionals there full time with the job title of "translator guy". They should have real classes and real front office people who aren't just wrestlers doing a task. I think a lot of that came from the Elite running All Out themselves and having that preferential framework to put on top of what Tony wanted to do, the whole thing all feels very lax and very 'we're making this together, wrestling guys', but the question of having writers and the question of having the framework to accommodate and smooth the transition over for international talents should be wholly separate statements and not really something we're putting together. They're issues with merits to discuss in parallel, but one is about the creation of a show and one is about peoples' living situations and the reality of doing business with talents from abroad long-term.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 11, 2022 2:12:15 GMT -5
I hope Tony reads this or someone close to him does and begins taking steps to rectify it. Obviously when Swole spoke about grievances it was when she was already out and that might've touched a sour nerve. Shida's an AEW lifer just about I'd say, and does shit behind the scenes. I feel like she only is putting this out there because she wants what's best for her fellow Joshi talents, and a push for it.
Again I really think signing people like Regal would really help your company internally, there's no doubt that he has a ton of connections in the Florida area due to his time in WWE too in terms of helping international talent, it's why I think those internal staffing releases WWE have made should be just as much a priority as the big on air talents. They really go a long way, and would go a long way in already making what seems to be a very chill and fun work environment, much easier to transition into for wrestlers like Emi and those who could come after her.
I agree with Mothman as well, the whole "Do they need writers?" aspect isn't really the main issue here, Swole talked of structure, Shida is talking about international talent being worked into the system easier.
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Post by Dub H on Feb 11, 2022 2:14:06 GMT -5
You need like, actual training for ESL education (which is probably what he meant as opposed to American Sign Language). If anything, you don't have someone who is qualified to teach and you could end up doing more harm than good. Hire an actual teacher for that (seriously, they could use the money). Barring that, a full-time interpreter is probably more useful for day-to-day business.
Writers aren't also necessarily going to know the Jacksonville real estate market, either. They could be new to the area themselves or don't even live in the area because of a travel schedule. That's what a competent HR department would have or even have talent local to the area to hook them up with a real estate agent.
Even if not hiring a Japanese teacher, there's almost definitely English classes out there and Tony could simply enroll someone in those. Hell there may even be specifically-scheduled business sector classes with a school they could make arrangements with. A local real estate firm they tag to handle all their inbound stuff? Same deal. AEW has the money and they should be working with this, and I honestly think stuff like "oh yeah Nakazawa does that kind of thing" is not ideal. Nakazawa could I'm sure be helpful as a middleman for like at-show kind of stuff, and I know he has that role for stuff he's done for American wrestlers going to Japan for a spell, but really should have professionals there full time with the job title of "translator guy". They should have real classes and real front office people who aren't just wrestlers doing a task. I think a lot of that came from the Elite running All Out themselves and having that preferential framework to put on top of what Tony wanted to do, the whole thing all feels very lax and very 'we're making this together, wrestling guys', but the question of having writers and the question of having the framework to accommodate and smooth the transition over for international talents should be wholly separate statements and not really something we're putting together. They're issues with merits to discuss in parallel, but one is about the creation of a show and one is about peoples' living situations and the reality of doing business with talents from abroad long-term. I'm just gonna put this right here: A Random English teacher wouldnt do much for a Japanese person with not much english knowledge. It is legit a world difference between the two languages and something Japan itself is always trying to find methods to make the learning easier Not saying they shouldnt get something, but it need to be with that in mind. There is likely Business-English Classes focused on that but they would also need something to help with the promo part
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2022 3:01:11 GMT -5
Fulham almost certainly have a full time ESL teacher ready to deliver lessons at a seconds notice. 11 out of their 26 man squad are ESL speakers. I imagine all top clubs do with the reliance of foreigners that UK football has. It shouldn't be too difficult to replicate with AEW.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 11, 2022 3:18:33 GMT -5
Even if not hiring a Japanese teacher, there's almost definitely English classes out there and Tony could simply enroll someone in those. Hell there may even be specifically-scheduled business sector classes with a school they could make arrangements with. A local real estate firm they tag to handle all their inbound stuff? Same deal. AEW has the money and they should be working with this, and I honestly think stuff like "oh yeah Nakazawa does that kind of thing" is not ideal. Nakazawa could I'm sure be helpful as a middleman for like at-show kind of stuff, and I know he has that role for stuff he's done for American wrestlers going to Japan for a spell, but really should have professionals there full time with the job title of "translator guy". They should have real classes and real front office people who aren't just wrestlers doing a task. I think a lot of that came from the Elite running All Out themselves and having that preferential framework to put on top of what Tony wanted to do, the whole thing all feels very lax and very 'we're making this together, wrestling guys', but the question of having writers and the question of having the framework to accommodate and smooth the transition over for international talents should be wholly separate statements and not really something we're putting together. They're issues with merits to discuss in parallel, but one is about the creation of a show and one is about peoples' living situations and the reality of doing business with talents from abroad long-term. I'm just gonna put this right here: A Random English teacher wouldnt do much for a Japanese person with not much english knowledge. It is legit a world difference between the two languages and something Japan itself is always trying to find methods to make the learning easier Not saying they shouldnt get something, but it need to be with that in mind. There is likely Business-English Classes focused on that but they would also need something to help with the promo part I never really said anything about the teacher not knowing Japanese though? ESL education is very typically set up and arranged by the language the teacher knows and can deal with the students in. Finding someone who knows Japanese and English is not a challenge. And as far as promo stuff goes, there's also acting coaches for people uncomfortable in a language or who can be hired to sharpen up the projection and confidence of someone who is speaking their second language. These are skillsets, and I am very much suggesting that the right people be hired to do this, not just random f***s. That's kind of the problem right now with "Oh Nakazwa does that". Nakazawa is not a teacher, not a professional translator, not an acting coach. He's a wrestler. He has value as a liaison for the Japanese talent, but a professional should be there to do the meatier work. Hell, hire an English teacher and then also hire a dialect coach.
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Post by stoptheclocks on Feb 11, 2022 3:19:47 GMT -5
Fulham almost certainly have a full time ESL teacher ready to deliver lessons at a seconds notice. 11 out of their 26 man squad are ESL speakers. I imagine all top clubs do with the reliance of foreigners that UK football has. It shouldn't be too difficult to replicate with AEW. It probably comes down to wanting to rather than being able to. As you say, Tony has significant experience with this exact thing. I daresay this is a bit of a monkey's paw thing, whereby more resources behind the scenes for talent will become a trade off for the freedom they're currently allowed. Because that's business.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 11, 2022 3:22:42 GMT -5
You need like, actual training for ESL education (which is probably what he meant as opposed to American Sign Language). If anything, you don't have someone who is qualified to teach and you could end up doing more harm than good. Hire an actual teacher for that (seriously, they could use the money). Barring that, a full-time interpreter is probably more useful for day-to-day business.
Writers aren't also necessarily going to know the Jacksonville real estate market, either. They could be new to the area themselves or don't even live in the area because of a travel schedule. That's what a competent HR department would have or even have talent local to the area to hook them up with a real estate agent.
Even if not hiring a Japanese teacher, there's almost definitely English classes out there and Tony could simply enroll someone in those. Hell there may even be specifically-scheduled business sector classes with a school they could make arrangements with. A local real estate firm they tag to handle all their inbound stuff? Same deal. AEW has the money and they should be working with this, and I honestly think stuff like "oh yeah Nakazawa does that kind of thing" is not ideal. Nakazawa could I'm sure be helpful as a middleman for like at-show kind of stuff, and I know he has that role for stuff he's done for American wrestlers going to Japan for a spell, but really should have professionals there full time with the job title of "translator guy". They should have real classes and real front office people who aren't just wrestlers doing a task. I think a lot of that came from the Elite running All Out themselves and having that preferential framework to put on top of what Tony wanted to do, the whole thing all feels very lax and very 'we're making this together, wrestling guys', but the question of having writers and the question of having the framework to accommodate and smooth the transition over for international talents should be wholly separate statements and not really something we're putting together. They're issues with merits to discuss in parallel, but one is about the creation of a show and one is about peoples' living situations and the reality of doing business with talents from abroad long-term. I think Shida just touched on a couple of distinct but related points, and different people in this thread are talking about different aspects of the situation. I don't think anyone believes that hiring writers will make it easier for people coming from overseas to find housing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2022 9:03:55 GMT -5
I mean...WWE isn't forcing their foreign talent to buy large houses. Like I said, they have a decent apartment complex that is low cost. And if the talent doesn't want to stay there, WWE will help the talent find a place to live. I can't find the source right now but I seem to remember either Cezar Bononi or Tay Conti saying that WWE tried to pressure them into buying a house. Could be wrong about that though. I do remember Bayley saying on Twitter that the IIconics were sleeping on her apartment floor for a while after they were signed by WWE, and even a domestic talent like Mox was, per his book, living in a literal crack den after he relocated to Florida. Not to mention the way WWE "encourages" signed international talent to stay on F1 visas, making them dependent on the company to be able to legally stay in the country, rather than trying to help them get B2 visas or green cards. Not that any of this excuses AEW's shortcomings, because it doesn't, but WWE's track record certainly isn't spotless either.
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Post by markymark on Feb 11, 2022 10:12:35 GMT -5
Just like Swole, Shida also calling out Fightful, and guess what the person who posted the info its the same one who only posted the AEW criticism from Swole podcast and not the positive stuff she talked about(the name is Jeremy Lambert)
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 11, 2022 10:22:20 GMT -5
There's going to be a few things that make the way AEW operates inherently different from the way WWE does; for example, while AEW may be "based out of Jacksonville", it's not the way that WWE is "based out of Orlando"; WWE's corporate offices are in Connecticut, but they have a full time training center in Orlando, which makes it very simple to build around bringing new signees to the area where they know they'll be working most of the time and getting them situated. AEW lacks that singular geographic location; their offices might be in Jacksonville, but outside of the pandemic stretch where every show was at Daly's Place it wouldn't make sense for the talent to just live in that city.
Could there still be more done? I'd guess so. I wouldn't be shocked if some of the way AEW approaches things could reflect the experiences gaijin like the Bucks had in New Japan: you have someone like Tiger Hattori or Rocky Romero act as your liaison, and they might even guide you around as needed for a stretch, with Hattori being capable of acting as a translator, but by and large there's not a ton of structure beyond that, at least not that I've heard of. Maybe it's different for guys like Zack Sabre when they actually relocate to Japan for the job, for all I know he had help getting set up with a place to stay (plus there's always the basic "you can crash at the dojo until you're set up" option), but otherwise it seems like a bit less structure.
That said, it can be a lot easier for an English speaker to get around Tokyo (though not most other major cities like Osaka) than it is for a Japanese speaker to get around, well, most of the United States, assuming that person lacks fluency. Given that fact, it does behoove AEW to think about expanding services for non-English speaking talent; like Shida said, I'm guessing that the pandemic and relative lack of travel options meant that wasn't going to get as much attention from the office, but it's likely a pretty easy fix they can start implementing, especially as travel restrictions begin easing as hopefully Omicron beginning to burn out marks a big step towards a more normal reality (knock on every wooden surface that there's no new, worse variant on deck).
As for the whole on-screen aspect of things, I guess there's a couple ways things can be taken: I'm down for them having a few more voices around who can act as pointmen/pointwomen for different parts of the roster and advocate for some talent that might not be comfortable advocating for themselves. I'm sure there's people on staff already doing that to some extent, but I'm also sure it can be tough when some of the bigger backstage voices (e.g. Omega, the Bucks, etc.) are also in-ring talent, themselves, so maybe a few more agents who can focus on a smaller group of people at a time could make for more focus on some segments of the roster.
That said, we also have to consider a couple of other factors here: one is that it's a little weird to hear how they "only focus on a few people" while at the same time I often see some minor complaints from others saying "they feature too many people and rotate them too much, there are weeks where I won't see my favorite". Like, just consider the last couple months of 2021 going without Omega, Moxley, Archer, now Kingston, etc., which means there's been more emphasis on Punk, MJF, Cole, etc...I can still get how it feels like some stories end up being dragged out for awhile, but ultimately they've got a huge roster with a lot of very, very over people in it, and that includes a good portion of the women's division.
Additionally, and more pertinent to the kind of booking they're going to pursue, they're firmly in the mode of "keep growing, get everything primed for TV rights negotiations in 2023". So long as how they're doing things is netting them strong ratings, demo numbers, ticket/merch sales, general buzz and interest, etc., that's what they're going to keep pursuing to net a deal that brings them closer to the levels of what WWE is pulling in from their broadcast partners. It can be very frustrating when there are names and talents on the roster I want to see featured more beyond the online platforms, but they're also setting themselves up for a huge windfall given the way they're building.
...And yeah, just also echoing that some of the issues with international talent has also been what kinds of visas have been available. I wanted to see so much more in-ring work from Mei Suruga, but the documents available for her basically made it impossible for her to be paid by a US employer for wrestling, which likely explains her just working one match since, I'd hope, they wouldn't be looking to have her work multiple matches without being properly compensated for them.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Feb 11, 2022 11:17:57 GMT -5
Jack Evans said the same thing as Shida/Swole a year or more ago about not being good at pitching ideas and being left out in the cold because of it.
I don't think they need writers as in someone to script every line of dialogue on the show but they could use writers (or bookers or whatever you want to call them) to come up with ideas/gimmicks/stories for people. Basically a good version of Vince Russo. Someone who's going to come up with stuff for everyone and not just a certain few.
Leaving it up to the wrestlers themselves means you're undoubtedly going to miss out on a lot of great talent. Undertaker didn't come up with his gimmick. It was given to him. In AEW's system he could have amounted to nothing or been a regular on Dark because he had no good ideas of his own. Bayley around 2019-20 said she had only just became comfortable pitching ideas and was too nervous to do so before. Imagine a world with no hugger Bayley and the classic feud with Sasha never happens just because she's a little introverted backstage. Her job is to wrestle. As far as I'm aware she's not being paid extra to be a writer/booker also. She can have input sure but it shouldn't be 100% on her. There should be people backstage whose specific job it is to help people with stuff like that and not like oh yeah Kenny Omega is running the women's division on the side while already being busy enough dealing with his own matches/injuries/EVP duties. TK and his dad are multi-billionaires, multitudes richer than even Vince, there's no need to skimp.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 11, 2022 11:25:03 GMT -5
I always forget just how much of a pain in the ass the visa system is in this country.
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Post by xCompackx on Feb 11, 2022 12:57:24 GMT -5
I feel like some of these things aren't AEW's fault; the pandemic f***ed over every aspect of life and especially when you throw a language barrier in the mix, I can't imagine how tough that can be.
But AEW could definitely benefit with a creative staff to just help talent who aren't the best at pitching their own things come up with something to bring to the table. You don't need strategy sessions or an AEW Performance Center, but encourage guys like Jericho, Punk, Danielson, bring in Regal to connect with guys and throw around some ideas. They likely do this already, but everyone has something to offer and across three shows, BTE, and social media, there's plenty of platform to try stuff.
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Post by eJm on Feb 11, 2022 13:02:04 GMT -5
I feel like some of these things aren't AEW's fault; the pandemic f***ed over every aspect of life and especially when you throw a language barrier in the mix, I can't imagine how tough that can be. But AEW could definitely benefit with a creative staff to just help talent who aren't the best at pitching their own things come up with something to bring to the table. You don't need strategy sessions or an AEW Performance Center, but encourage guys like Jericho, Punk, Danielson, bring in Regal to connect with guys and throw around some ideas. They likely do this already, but everyone has something to offer and across three shows, BTE, and social media, there's plenty of platform to try stuff. Yeah, I think some of the modern approaches of having agents plan stuff out in matches to an extent or even have people propose ideas for certain divisions (likely either people in those divisions or adjacent to them like Leva Bates for the women etc) wouldn't be the worst thing to do. Like, I don't think having repeat stuff that slips through is the biggest deal in the world but you want to find a way to iron out those creases as soon as and there's no real harm in that. EDIT: And it also helps AEW seems to be better utilizing its veterans in those types of roles than I'd say most big companies have. I couldn't imagine someone like Bryan Danielson training Jade Cargill, for example.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2022 13:24:21 GMT -5
It’s the writers jobs to help wrestlers with character and storylines. But what they really need is coordinators/assistants or something to help international wrestlers get acclimated to the company and for a home. So in that instance, writers is probably not the right term. You need like, actual training for ESL education (which is probably what he meant as opposed to American Sign Language). If anything, you don't have someone who is qualified to teach and you could end up doing more harm than good. Hire an actual teacher for that (seriously, they could use the money). Barring that, a full-time interpreter is probably more useful for day-to-day business.
Writers aren't also necessarily going to know the Jacksonville real estate market, either. They could be new to the area themselves or don't even live in the area because of a travel schedule. That's what a competent HR department would have or even have talent local to the area to hook them up with a real estate agent.
My point is that the writers tend to have direct access to the wrestlers, and could serve as intermediaries to upper management and human resources (wrestlers can also talk to management, but I feel like the chain of command favors those who work on the production side as opposed to the actual talent), who probably have the ability to explain things in greater detail than the wrestlers, since you're working with a bunch of talent and if they are struggling, then that's going to affect your job. That doesn't mean the writers have to literally learn other professions; it's just asking if AEW's top brass can find those people who can assist in those needs.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2022 15:13:15 GMT -5
I guess what frustrates me the most about Shida's point is that it inadvertently shows some of the major discrepancies in care and presentation between the women and the men, period.
Think about it this way: Pentagon does not speak English. Solution: Alex Abrahantes. He worked around the limitation. Same thing with Andrade.
It couldn't be that difficult to get a Nakazawa or whatever to act as the translator for the Joshi/Japanese talent.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 11, 2022 15:21:39 GMT -5
I guess what frustrates me the most about Shida's point is that it inadvertently shows some of the major discrepancies in care and presentation between the women and the men, period. Think about it this way: Pentagon does not speak English. Solution: Alex Abrahantes. He worked around the limitation. Same thing with Andrade. It couldn't be that difficult to get a Nakazawa or whatever to act as the translator for the Joshi/Japanese talent. Again, I'm pretty sure Nakazawa is back in Japan for DDT-Pro stuff. Where does that leave the Japanese talent when he's not there? I don't think there's any Japanese-Americans on the roster and Kenny Omega (only other person I know on the roster that's fluent in both Japanese and English) is injured. And Japanese isn't nearly as widely spoken, especially in the US, as Spanish is, where you have several people on the roster, doing in-house Spanish commentary, and behind the scenes that are bilingual and can fill in like Alex, Rosa, Dasha, etc.
That's why they need someone specifically on staff for this.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 11, 2022 18:44:48 GMT -5
Jack Evans said the same thing as Shida/Swole a year or more ago about not being good at pitching ideas and being left out in the cold because of it. I don't think they need writers as in someone to script every line of dialogue on the show but they could use writers (or bookers or whatever you want to call them) to come up with ideas/gimmicks/stories for people. Basically a good version of Vince Russo. Someone who's going to come up with stuff for everyone and not just a certain few. Leaving it up to the wrestlers themselves means you're undoubtedly going to miss out on a lot of great talent. Undertaker didn't come up with his gimmick. It was given to him. In AEW's system he could have amounted to nothing or been a regular on Dark because he had no good ideas of his own. Bayley around 2019-20 said she had only just became comfortable pitching ideas and was too nervous to do so before. Imagine a world with no hugger Bayley and the classic feud with Sasha never happens just because she's a little introverted backstage. Her job is to wrestle. As far as I'm aware she's not being paid extra to be a writer/booker also. She can have input sure but it shouldn't be 100% on her. There should be people backstage whose specific job it is to help people with stuff like that and not like oh yeah Kenny Omega is running the women's division on the side while already being busy enough dealing with his own matches/injuries/EVP duties. TK and his dad are multi-billionaires, multitudes richer than even Vince, there's no need to skimp. This is what seems would help these “lost” wrestlers the most. No reason not to put something like that in place moving forward.
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