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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Mar 23, 2022 8:59:55 GMT -5
Hardcore holly is one of those guys like Martel where you swore he did hold it. I guess it was in the attitude era where everything was hot potatoed where everybody got a go with the belt you forget it was once a prestigious title. I'm surprised Holly didn't have a go during that time. He did get a heavyweight title match at Royal Rumble 2004 against Brock Lesnar ... for some reason
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Post by sungod2020 on Mar 23, 2022 9:07:11 GMT -5
Hercules? Snitsky? Seriously? And even as a kid I never believed a big, gimmicky guy like the Boss Man was ever going to win the title. I can get on board with Rick Martel, or maybe Paul Orndorff. Otherwise, the list of IC champions who shouldn't have won the title is longer than the list of guys who should have and didn't. Generally it's the champion who makes the belt, not the other way around. Adding another midcard title wouldn't have added much to expansion-era WWF as best I can tell. While it's true the first two decades of the belt was dominated by workhorse guys, their were guys who didn't exactly fit the IC title mold that elevated from the belt. Ultimate Warrior was as gimmicky as they get and he was roughly the same size as Hercules. He even looked good wearing it. I would've loved to see Snitsky win it at some point, most preferably during his three week mini-feud with Shelton Benjamin. It was also in the era where guys who didn't fit the IC title mold(Godfather, Rikishi, Kane, Albert etc) got a turn with the belt, so it wouldn't be a stretch to see someone like him win it, even if it was only for a little bit.
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petef3
Don Corleone
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Post by petef3 on Mar 23, 2022 9:10:00 GMT -5
I've grown to appreciate Herc in retrospect, but at the time he was exciting to me as watching grass grow. That's unfair, but he still wasn't in Warrior's league in terms of star power or charisma.
I don't get compounding a mistake IC title reign like Godfather's by booking more mistake title reigns.
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Post by chronocross on Mar 23, 2022 9:14:08 GMT -5
Brutus Beefcake X-Pac Paul Orndorff Rick Martel Savio Vega
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,050
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Mar 23, 2022 12:44:49 GMT -5
Hercules? Snitsky? Seriously? And even as a kid I never believed a big, gimmicky guy like the Boss Man was ever going to win the title. I can get on board with Rick Martel, or maybe Paul Orndorff. Otherwise, the list of IC champions who shouldn't have won the title is longer than the list of guys who should have and didn't. Generally it's the champion who makes the belt, not the other way around. Adding another midcard title wouldn't have added much to expansion-era WWF as best I can tell. While it's true the first two decades of the belt was dominated by workhorse guys, their were guys who didn't exactly fit the IC title mold that elevated from the belt. Ultimate Warrior was as gimmicky as they get and he was roughly the same size as Hercules. He even looked good wearing it. I would've loved to see Snitsky win it at some point, most preferably during his three week mini-feud with Shelton Benjamin. It was also in the era where guys who didn't fit the IC title mold(Godfather, Rikishi, Kane, Albert etc) got a turn with the belt, so it wouldn't be a stretch to see someone like him win it, even if it was only for a little bit. The longest reigning champion is the bloody Honky Tonk Man. I'd easily accept a Boss Man run, 90-92 you could see him getting better show by show. I'd call him one of the better big men in the business, him having a short reign during his feud with the Heenan Family, say win it at WM7, lose it a couple of months later due to Mountie interference and you still set up the Summerslam matches we had.
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Post by Jumpin' Jesse Walsh on Mar 23, 2022 13:51:10 GMT -5
I think a Hardcore Holly title reign would’ve been possible circa 1999.
Damn, that belt really went from Ken Shamrock to Val Venis to Road Dogg to Goldust to The Godfather to Jeff Jarrett in like 3 months.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Mar 23, 2022 14:00:11 GMT -5
While it's true the first two decades of the belt was dominated by workhorse guys, their were guys who didn't exactly fit the IC title mold that elevated from the belt. Ultimate Warrior was as gimmicky as they get and he was roughly the same size as Hercules. He even looked good wearing it. I would've loved to see Snitsky win it at some point, most preferably during his three week mini-feud with Shelton Benjamin. It was also in the era where guys who didn't fit the IC title mold(Godfather, Rikishi, Kane, Albert etc) got a turn with the belt, so it wouldn't be a stretch to see someone like him win it, even if it was only for a little bit. The longest reigning champion is the bloody Honky Tonk Man. Who stood out precisely because he broke the mold, not because he was one of a rash of gimmick guys all holding the title more or less in succession.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,050
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Mar 23, 2022 14:38:00 GMT -5
The longest reigning champion is the bloody Honky Tonk Man. Who stood out precisely because he broke the mold, not because he was one of a rash of gimmick guys all holding the title more or less in succession. Neither would Bossman have been. Some of the suggestions here I very much disagree with, but it's not like the IC belt was allergic to gimmicks. Even in the 80s, long as someone was credible and could work, go for it.
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Post by CubsFan71 on Mar 23, 2022 14:51:37 GMT -5
Tully would have been great as IC champ
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petef3
Don Corleone
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Post by petef3 on Mar 23, 2022 14:56:26 GMT -5
I think it would have taken away from Bret's title win for him to have won a hot potato of a title. With one brief interregnum, Perfect had dominated the IC title picture for 15 months.
That's the other thing--it's not just about who's "deserving." It's about the bigger booking picture and the opportunity for someone to have a reign.
Lots of worthy titleholders didn't get a title in this era. That's not a bug, that's a feature.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,050
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Mar 23, 2022 16:47:51 GMT -5
Well yeah lots of worth titleholders didn't get it, that's literally what this thread is about.
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petef3
Don Corleone
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Post by petef3 on Mar 23, 2022 16:52:15 GMT -5
Well yeah lots of worth titleholders didn't get it, that's literally what this thread is about. I don't see the thread title that way. There's a difference between "guys who were good enough to be IC Champion" and "guys who should have been IC Champion," which is what the subject line is. A semantic difference maybe, but still a difference. I'll concede Beefcake as another one, since it's generally accepted that he was going to win the title if not for the injury.
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Post by Cvslfc123 on Mar 23, 2022 17:00:36 GMT -5
Always surprised Matt Hardy never won it. I don’t ever recall him ever wrestling for it. I remember he had a feud in 2010 with Drew McIntyre who held the title that year, they probably had a match for it at some point.
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Post by sungod2020 on Mar 23, 2022 17:49:14 GMT -5
I've grown to appreciate Herc in retrospect, but at the time he was exciting to me as watching grass grow. That's unfair, but he still wasn't in Warrior's league in terms of star power or charisma. I don't get compounding a mistake IC title reign like Godfather's by booking more mistake title reigns. I don't get the argument that giving The Godfather an IC title run was a bad idea. I get that he wasn't a "workrate-type guy," but he was one of the most over acts in the Attitude Era. He's been with the company on-and-off for seven years dealing with failed gimmick after failed gimmick until he found something that clicked. To me, it came off as a "thank you" run for putting up with all the crap he was given all those years. Plus he looked "pimpin" wearing it too....
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petef3
Don Corleone
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Post by petef3 on Mar 23, 2022 18:58:29 GMT -5
I'm not much of a believer in "thank you" title reigns. Nor do I believe that over acts automatically deserve a title run. I'm also skeptical if the Godfather was over, or if his ladies were. Were fans ever actually emotionally invested in a Godfather win? Did his actual matches have heat? Would he be a ratings draw if put in a TV main event? Did people actually shell out money for tickets specifically to see him, or was he one attraction among several? There's a difference between getting a big crowd pop and being "over."
Put it this way: I think AEW putting a belt on Danhausen would be a major mistake, too. The NWA never put one of its myriad titles on Jimmy Valiant, and he *was* tangibly over in an emotional-investment, ticket-drawing way.
It wasn't a "bad idea" in the sense that it derailed a super-hot promotion, but I wouldn't call it a good one or a fruitful one, either.
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Mar 23, 2022 19:28:37 GMT -5
I feel like if Curt Hennig never went to the WWF or never existed, Rick Martel could have filled that spot. It wouldn’t have been the same, but Rick Martel would have been a great IC Champion.
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Post by dirtyoldman on Mar 24, 2022 4:03:34 GMT -5
Hardcore holly is one of those guys like Martel where you swore he did hold it. I guess it was in the attitude era where everything was hot potatoed where everybody got a go with the belt you forget it was once a prestigious title. I'm surprised Holly didn't have a go during that time. He did get a heavyweight title match at Royal Rumble 2004 against Brock Lesnar ... for some reason I had to think did you really mean Hardcore Holly or Benoit. I think I remember the real hardcore Holly in the title match.
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Post by Super Nintenjoe KBD on Mar 24, 2022 4:50:54 GMT -5
I can so clearly see Martel in my head with that belt, would have been perfect in another timeline.
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Bad Moon
Unicron
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Post by Bad Moon on Mar 24, 2022 4:51:20 GMT -5
In the golden age of the belt when the IC was just a notch below the WWF champion? Jake Roberts always stood out to me as THE GUY who never held it. Of course there are many reasons why he wouldn't, maybe even shouldn't have won it, but it's still a notable gap.
Post-Warrior when they started using the IC as a stepping stone/trial run belt for their future stars rather than for their top guys, I think it Vader and Mankind could have benefited from it, but with Vader that wasn't happening and Foley would prove he didn't need it.
Post-brand split who the f*** cares. The only IC champion I even remember from the last 20 years was Santino.
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Post by sungod2020 on Mar 24, 2022 7:08:20 GMT -5
I'm not much of a believer in "thank you" title reigns. Nor do I believe that over acts automatically deserve a title run. I'm also skeptical if the Godfather was over, or if his ladies were. Were fans ever actually emotionally invested in a Godfather win? Did his actual matches have heat? Would he be a ratings draw if put in a TV main event? Did people actually shell out money for tickets specifically to see him, or was he one attraction among several? There's a difference between getting a big crowd pop and being "over." Put it this way: I think AEW putting a belt on Danhausen would be a major mistake, too. The NWA never put one of its myriad titles on Jimmy Valiant, and he *was* tangibly over in an emotional-investment, ticket-drawing way. It wasn't a "bad idea" in the sense that it derailed a super-hot promotion, but I wouldn't call it a good one or a fruitful one, either. Well without you believing in "thank you" title reigns you got me there. I don't know if he was actually over or it was bringing out the ladies that gave him cheap pops, but without that one character, fans wouldn't remember him as fondly as they have. It's obviously his most memorable one and possibly kept him around longer than he should've. I don't know if that warrants a brief title run, but getting some sort of recognition from management isn't so bad. No, he was never meant to be a main eventer and fans wouldn't buy him as such, but holding a midcard title for a brief period at least adds a career note and never did any harm to what was a hot product at the time. Sadly, the only thing that most fans would remember about his run is having a scheduled match against Owen Hart(as The Blue Blazer) that never happened due to that tragic incident, but that's another story. I guess we'll just to have to agree to disagree.
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