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Post by ragecutter on May 17, 2022 18:12:47 GMT -5
All I know of are NJPW and AJPW. What are the top promotions? Where do they rank? How do they compare with each other? Responses are very much appreciated.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 17, 2022 21:15:42 GMT -5
Quick response, but NJPW is the biggest promotion in Japan. It has a history of emphasizing "strong style", an approach to pro wrestling that tries to emphasize real life strikes and submissions, but in recent years they've adapted a style closer to vintage AJPW.
AJPW is still going and has had a minor resurgence the last few years. They're not one of the top promotions in the country right now, but they've done a solid job rebuilding after a bumpy stretch of time since the early 2000s.
DDT is the second biggest promotion; it isn't afraid to go balls to the wall weird and deep into comedy, but is plenty capable of taking some of their craziness and turning it into strong melodrama in their top feuds and title matches. Their parent company now also owns Pro Wrestling NOAH, which had a hell of a time trying to survive after a Yakuza-related scandal and the death of founder Mitsuharu Misawa, but under their new ownership has gotten some stability again. NOAH tends to lean a bit too heavily on older wrestlers, but there's no denying how hard hitting and intense the in-ring work there is.
There's also a nice range of joshi promotions getting better exposure nowadays. NJPW's parent company also bought STARDOM, which has seen more growth this year than any other promotion basically anywhere. DDT/NOAH's parent company also owns Tokyo Joshi Pro Wrestling, which, again, is more character and often comedy driven than STARDOM but can still deliver some damn good matches. Also recommended are Ice Ribbon, Sendai Girls, and GATOH Move (their ChocoPro shows are some of the best examples of pro wrestling as a free expression art form in the most minimalist of settings).
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 18, 2022 12:20:56 GMT -5
While we're at it, could someone give a better description of King's Road than just "everyone dropping everyone else on their head as hard as they can"?
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on May 18, 2022 12:37:57 GMT -5
While we're at it, could someone give a better description of King's Road than just "everyone dropping everyone else on their head as hard as they can"? King's Road is defined by characterization, continuity, and limb work. (At least, it was initially, the head dropping was the result of DBZ-esque power level escalation.) It's a style optimized for some of the conditions of AJPW's marketing: big live gate based business, uncut or lightly edited VHS releases of 30-plus minute main event matches, and a limited main event roster of about five core native heavyweight main-eventers and three or four reliable gaijin monsters. There was a heavy emphasis on callbacks to previous matches, as well as character growth from match to match, and rivalries playing out over the course of years. It also had a stronger traditional American wrestling vibe (in terms of moves and rest holds especially) than Strong Style of the 90's. The head drops came from the fact that you can only escalate and develop so long with the same wrestlers (and with no gimmick matches) before things start getting completely out of hand.
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Post by tafkaga on May 18, 2022 12:38:19 GMT -5
While we're at it, could someone give a better description of King's Road than just "everyone dropping everyone else on their head as hard as they can"? King's Road's emphasis is on epic story telling, with longer, more theatrical matches, and powerful finishing moves. It's much closer to American style wrestling than Strong Style.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on May 18, 2022 13:16:54 GMT -5
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Post by chazraps on May 18, 2022 13:22:25 GMT -5
The way that I always suggest people get into Japanese Wrestling is through looking up the Japanese work of wrestlers they already like and seeing which of their opponents pop out at them. IVP Video has an amazing very affordable selection of compilations for dvd/blu or download, and their monthly Patreon and mystery boxes are both a fabulous bang for your buck - ivpvideos.com/
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 18, 2022 13:28:47 GMT -5
The old-schoool NJPW during its big run in the 1990s is best exemplified by a lot of Shinya Hashimoto matches, where he was billed as a tough guy who went through these wars of attrition. You still sometimes see that still in a lot of modern strike exchanges and in Suzuki and Ishii fights (and especially Shibata’s stuff pre-headbutt).
The “Inokiism” period people refer to is when Antonio Inoki tried to counter MMA’s rising popularity in the 2000’s by adding in shoots for his established wrestlers and pushing pro fighters as wrestling entertainers, to mixed-bad results.
But if you look at a lot of Okada (especially) Naito matches, there is more of a gradual buildup to the deadliest move in one’s arsenal similar to the 1990s AJPW style during the Misawa/Kobashi heyday.
From what I’ve watched of older All Japan, Baba patterned the style closer to what NWA was doing at the time.
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on May 18, 2022 13:38:28 GMT -5
From what I’ve watched of older All Japan, Baba patterned the style closer to what NWA was doing at the time. Agreed, which is a major reason that Ric Flair vs. Kenta Kobashi circa 1993 is my theoretical best match that could have happened but never did. AJPW and King's Road is almost like a divergent evolution from US wrestling as of 1989. It's definitely of a kind with Flair's matches with Steamboat and Windham as of Misawa's rise in 1990, but then starts moving in directions that made sense for the continuation of the territory-era business. US wrestling moved in a television-focused direction, which meant that shorter matches and higher variation in action via gimmicks and run-ins became the norm; the live event-based business of AJPW favored those longer matches, because that's the sort of thing that plays way better to a sold-out arena. I imagine US wrestling would probably have looked a lot more like it if the incentives had lined up that way, and I think that's a big reason why ROH leaned heavily into AJPW influences for a promotion based on live events and home video releases.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 18, 2022 16:38:12 GMT -5
From what I’ve watched of older All Japan, Baba patterned the style closer to what NWA was doing at the time. Agreed, which is a major reason that Ric Flair vs. Kenta Kobashi circa 1993 is my theoretical best match that could have happened but never did. AJPW and King's Road is almost like a divergent evolution from US wrestling as of 1989. It's definitely of a kind with Flair's matches with Steamboat and Windham as of Misawa's rise in 1990, but then starts moving in directions that made sense for the continuation of the territory-era business. US wrestling moved in a television-focused direction, which meant that shorter matches and higher variation in action via gimmicks and run-ins became the norm; the live event-based business of AJPW favored those longer matches, because that's the sort of thing that plays way better to a sold-out arena. I imagine US wrestling would probably have looked a lot more like it if the incentives had lined up that way, and I think that's a big reason why ROH leaned heavily into AJPW influences for a promotion based on live events and home video releases. That's a big reason why I was getting back into ROH circa 2020 or so: the other main US promotions are very TV-based, and ROH was the only one that still seemed, at least during that point, to put on a style that felt more like they were designed for live event gate-drawing and all that involves. It should also be noted that if you want to get into puro, be prepared to not be following weekly TV formatted shows. Most companies revolve around live event tours, usually starting in small venues with lower stakes matches (undercard talent and main eventers in tag matches) and culminating in a bigger, more significant card where the top talent gets featured and the main belts defended/main feuds settled. This can lead to a couple weeks with little to no new content, but then a barrage of shows day after day that can be tough to keep up with depending on your schedule and viewing habits. It can be an absolute blast, though, when many of these promotions do an annual round robin tournament (e.g NJPW's G1 tournament or Best of the Super Juniors, or NOAH's N-1 Victory tournament, or AJPW's Champions' Carnival). You just get day after day of bangers for 2-3 weeks, typically with some really good character work thrown in as each participant usually has a goal or aim during the tournament.
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Post by ragecutter on May 19, 2022 7:09:00 GMT -5
Where does Dragongate fit in the pecking order?
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salz4life
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Post by salz4life on May 19, 2022 8:39:26 GMT -5
All Japan was part of the NWA wasn't it?
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Post by Fundertaker on May 19, 2022 8:56:30 GMT -5
Where does Dragongate fit in the pecking order? They're basically on their own island (being based in Kobe instead of Tokyo like the other promotions), but I'd say they, DDT and STARDOM fluctuate enough that you could make a case about any of them being the number 2 promotion at any point in the last years. Also, their style although still based on the old 90's lucharesu (basically, integrating lucha libre into regular wrestling), they went into a more "overkill" mode match wise for a while, kinda taking both the good and the bad from american indy wrestling at the time, but have calmed down a bit from what little I've seen of it recently. Other than that, there's a bunch of other feds. From Big Japan and FREEDOMS that focus both on regular and deathmatch wrestling, GLEAT that has both a pro-wrestling and a shoot-style wrestling parts, ZERO1 still existing, Michinoku Pro is its own thing in the Sendai region, etc. So, there's a lot of things to discover, so tip your toe into each, circle the ones you actually like and follow that.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on May 19, 2022 11:39:52 GMT -5
Is there a fed with a sillier name than SEAdLINNNG?
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Post by MrElijah on May 19, 2022 11:44:15 GMT -5
All Japan was part of the NWA wasn't it? Yes it was, as was New Japan. Baba was pretty respected in wrestling, so much that his promotion, All Japan, had the last major Champion vs. Champion bout of the territory era, when NWA World Champion Ric Flair took on AWA World Champion Rick Martel.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 11:56:02 GMT -5
I recently stumbled upon a Youtube series "Walking the King's Road" which is going through the history of the rise of AJPW/the Kings Road style through the 90s. Touching on Misawa, Tsuruta, Kawada, Taue and the other players. I highly recommend it as I knew very little of it's history, and it has given me such an appreciation about it. He recently got past the famous 6/3/94 which is touted as one of if the not best match of all time.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on May 19, 2022 12:26:27 GMT -5
In ring wise, the mid 90's AJPW stuff can't really be beat. Misawa and Kobashi are on a whole different level. Add in Kawada, Taue, and gaijins like Hansen and Dr. Death and even Johnny Ace, & its damn near perfect.
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on May 20, 2022 0:05:18 GMT -5
The way that I always suggest people get into Japanese Wrestling is through looking up the Japanese work of wrestlers they already like and seeing which of their opponents pop out at them. IVP Video has an amazing very affordable selection of compilations for dvd/blu or download, and their monthly Patreon and mystery boxes are both a fabulous bang for your buck - ivpvideos.com/I've been doing IVP's monthly Patreon since the beginning and love it. It's random but it's a TON of video for cheap.
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Post by nobody on May 21, 2022 2:34:45 GMT -5
Just jumping into this thread to throw in another for IVP Videos. The Patreon is amazing value for money and the mystery boxes have usually got something fun to look forward to that I wouldn’t normally think about purchasing myself.
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Post by Starshine on May 21, 2022 10:01:10 GMT -5
Where does Dragongate fit in the pecking order? Second to New Japan.
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