XIII
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Post by XIII on Jun 18, 2022 13:01:48 GMT -5
Jericho talks in his book about how Vince thought he could take a UFC guy because he was short. And that guy was Frank Shamrock, IIRC. You know, the brother of the guy who was an employee that wasn't no slouch in MMA. For any MMA fans out there, how good was Frank? From what I recall he was pretty good during the early days of MMA, Ken was obviously much more successful though. Some notable wins for Frank were multiple over Minoru Suzuki and Bas Rutten once. A funny Frank Shamrock story goes that he was grappling someone (I can’t remember who offhand) and the guy took him down easily and was in mount but couldn’t do anything because Frank was hip bumping like crazy so the other guy had to keep working to hold him down to maintain his dominant position, the problem being that Frank had insane cardio and just kept hip bumping until the other guy tapped out in exhaustion. So not only was Frank a decent fighter but he was a cardio machine and Vince would get absolutely wrecked by him and any National/international level MMA fighter. Dude is a clown.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Jun 18, 2022 13:20:40 GMT -5
And that guy was Frank Shamrock, IIRC. You know, the brother of the guy who was an employee that wasn't no slouch in MMA. For any MMA fans out there, how good was Frank? From what I recall he was pretty good during the early days of MMA, Ken was obviously much more successful though. Some notable wins for Frank were multiple over Minoru Suzuki and Bas Rutten once. A funny Frank Shamrock story goes that he was grappling someone (I can’t remember who offhand) and the guy took him down easily and was in mount but couldn’t do anything because Frank was hip bumping like crazy so the other guy had to keep working to hold him down to maintain his dominant position, the problem being that Frank had insane cardio and just kept hip bumping until the other guy tapped out in exhaustion. So not only was Frank a decent fighter but he was a cardio machine and Vince would get absolutely wrecked by him and any National/international level MMA fighter. Dude is a clown. Vince, like any bully believes that size equals power and that if he's bigger than someone that automatically means he's stronger than them.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jun 18, 2022 13:25:02 GMT -5
From what I recall he was pretty good during the early days of MMA, Ken was obviously much more successful though. Some notable wins for Frank were multiple over Minoru Suzuki and Bas Rutten once. A funny Frank Shamrock story goes that he was grappling someone (I can’t remember who offhand) and the guy took him down easily and was in mount but couldn’t do anything because Frank was hip bumping like crazy so the other guy had to keep working to hold him down to maintain his dominant position, the problem being that Frank had insane cardio and just kept hip bumping until the other guy tapped out in exhaustion. So not only was Frank a decent fighter but he was a cardio machine and Vince would get absolutely wrecked by him and any National/international level MMA fighter. Dude is a clown. Vince, like any bully believes that size equals power and that if he's bigger than someone that automatically means he's stronger than them. That could have turned out very interesting if Vince had decided to try Danny Hodge.
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ToyfareMark
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Post by ToyfareMark on Jun 18, 2022 14:16:04 GMT -5
Pretty sure it came out that Race made up the part about Vince trying to take him down.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jun 18, 2022 14:38:45 GMT -5
Pretty sure it came out that Race made up the part about Vince trying to take him down. Possibly, but this is the first I’ve ever heard that.
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jun 18, 2022 14:42:51 GMT -5
Jericho talks in his book about how Vince thought he could take a UFC guy because he was short. And that guy was Frank Shamrock, IIRC. You know, the brother of the guy who was an employee that wasn't no slouch in MMA. For any MMA fans out there, how good was Frank? Not quite as good as Ken in my humble opinion, but he would tie Vince into a human balloon animal.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 18, 2022 14:54:57 GMT -5
Vince, like any bully believes that size equals power and that if he's bigger than someone that automatically means he's stronger than them. That could have turned out very interesting if Vince had decided to try Danny Hodge. We've seen what he could do to apples, imagine what he'd do to grapefruits.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2022 16:22:11 GMT -5
Jericho talks in his book about how Vince thought he could take a UFC guy because he was short. And that guy was Frank Shamrock, IIRC. You know, the brother of the guy who was an employee that wasn't no slouch in MMA. For any MMA fans out there, how good was Frank? The short answer is that Ken is probably the better submission grappler of the two, but Frank was a better all around fighter and athlete. Ken just got a bit more name recognition for getting on the UFC bandwagon earlier and being naturally larger than Frank. But, to put it this way: Minoru Suzuki holds 2 victories over Ken via kneebar. Frank made Suzuki tap both times they fought. So, yeah. Frank is a bad, bad dude.
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Jun 18, 2022 17:16:36 GMT -5
And that guy was Frank Shamrock, IIRC. You know, the brother of the guy who was an employee that wasn't no slouch in MMA. For any MMA fans out there, how good was Frank? From what I recall he was pretty good during the early days of MMA, Ken was obviously much more successful though. Some notable wins for Frank were multiple over Minoru Suzuki and Bas Rutten once. A funny Frank Shamrock story goes that he was grappling someone (I can’t remember who offhand) and the guy took him down easily and was in mount but couldn’t do anything because Frank was hip bumping like crazy so the other guy had to keep working to hold him down to maintain his dominant position, the problem being that Frank had insane cardio and just kept hip bumping until the other guy tapped out in exhaustion. So not only was Frank a decent fighter but he was a cardio machine and Vince would get absolutely wrecked by him and any National/international level MMA fighter. Dude is a clown. Frank Shamrock may have great cardio, but does his diet consist of steak + ketchup wraps and snowcones? Yeah, that's what I thought.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Jun 18, 2022 18:00:35 GMT -5
Harley Race might be my favorite wrestling personality of all time. I really wish I would have met him. He probably has the greatest quote ever, "If I hit a man with my left hand and he doesn't go down, I will walk around him to see what is holding him up." But yeah, Vince is, was, and forever will be batshit crazy. One of my all time favorite Harley Race lines is "Being the World's Heavyweight Champion means that I can walk down any street, anywhere in the world and say that I can beat any man there, and then by God, prove it that same night." It's honestly surprising how many people tried to take liberties with Harley, none more ridiculous perhaps than "Lawman" Don Slatton, who tried to steal the title in a double cross.
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King Devitt
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Post by King Devitt on Jun 18, 2022 21:08:18 GMT -5
It’s hilarious stories like these that make me have a smidgin of respect for Vince. Say what you want about the guy but he has some balls lol Nah, trying to get the jump on someone way tougher than him because he wouldn't do something unethical and immediately getting caught... takes away even more of mine, what a petulant child. This. Vince threw an actual tantrum because he's spoiled, and arrogant, and didn't get his way. There's no respect to be given there.
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tirtefaa
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Post by tirtefaa on Jun 18, 2022 21:44:37 GMT -5
Wow, Vince must've had a death wish.
When Harley excused himself to go to the bathroom, I was having Godfather vibes.
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Post by jason1980s on Jun 18, 2022 23:03:22 GMT -5
I kind of doubted the Vince story from Bret about taking the doomsday device but after this thread certainly not!
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Post by saneiac on Jun 19, 2022 1:24:24 GMT -5
Jericho talks in his book about how Vince thought he could take a UFC guy because he was short. And that guy was Frank Shamrock, IIRC. You know, the brother of the guy who was an employee that wasn't no slouch in MMA. For any MMA fans out there, how good was Frank? Frank is getting underestimated in this thread, I think. At the time Ken was in WWE, Frank was dominating in the UFC. What is dominating? Well - Frank won the UFC middleweight championship by beating Kevin Jackson, a former Olympic gold medalist in wrestling. The fight lasted 16 seconds. - In Frank's first title defense, he hit a double leg and slammed his opponent down so hard that it broke the man's collar bone and ended his career - Made future UFC superstar Tito Ortiz tap out, not to a submission, but simply to getting punched in the face too much - Frank retired from the UFC undefeated in that promotion. The Wrestling Observer named Frank Fighter of the Decade for the 1990s. After leaving the UFC, Frank continued to win championships in major promotions, becoming the WEC lightweight champion in 2003 and the Strikeforce middleweight champion in 2007.
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SmashTV
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Post by SmashTV on Jun 19, 2022 3:40:33 GMT -5
I only knew Race from his WWF stint, and while he looked like an ‘old man’ (though I’m now older than he was back then), he still looked like a badass you wouldn’t mess with.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jun 19, 2022 13:52:46 GMT -5
I tend to believe this happened in part BECAUSE it was Vince. If the story had been Jimmy Crockett, Paul Boesch, Don Owen, or Sam Muchnick, I would would have my doubts, and a lot of them.
There are some other old school promoters I would have found believable, namely Verne Gagne and Bill Watts, but I still think Vince is the most believable.
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Post by newbombturk on Jun 22, 2022 4:47:25 GMT -5
And that guy was Frank Shamrock, IIRC. You know, the brother of the guy who was an employee that wasn't no slouch in MMA. For any MMA fans out there, how good was Frank? Frank is getting underestimated in this thread, I think. At the time Ken was in WWE, Frank was dominating in the UFC. What is dominating? Well - Frank won the UFC middleweight championship by beating Kevin Jackson, a former Olympic gold medalist in wrestling. The fight lasted 16 seconds. - In Frank's first title defense, he hit a double leg and slammed his opponent down so hard that it broke the man's collar bone and ended his career - Made future UFC superstar Tito Ortiz tap out, not to a submission, but simply to getting punched in the face too much - Frank retired from the UFC undefeated in that promotion. The Wrestling Observer named Frank Fighter of the Decade for the 1990s. After leaving the UFC, Frank continued to win championships in major promotions, becoming the WEC lightweight champion in 2003 and the Strikeforce middleweight champion in 2007. Very much this. Ken was bigger and better known but I'd argue Frank was the better fighter overall.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Jun 22, 2022 16:42:56 GMT -5
Frank is getting underestimated in this thread, I think. At the time Ken was in WWE, Frank was dominating in the UFC. What is dominating? Well - Frank won the UFC middleweight championship by beating Kevin Jackson, a former Olympic gold medalist in wrestling. The fight lasted 16 seconds. - In Frank's first title defense, he hit a double leg and slammed his opponent down so hard that it broke the man's collar bone and ended his career - Made future UFC superstar Tito Ortiz tap out, not to a submission, but simply to getting punched in the face too much - Frank retired from the UFC undefeated in that promotion. The Wrestling Observer named Frank Fighter of the Decade for the 1990s. After leaving the UFC, Frank continued to win championships in major promotions, becoming the WEC lightweight champion in 2003 and the Strikeforce middleweight champion in 2007. Very much this. Ken was bigger and better known but I'd argue Frank was the better fighter overall. There was a period where Frank was the pound for pound best in mma.
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jun 22, 2022 16:54:26 GMT -5
Well, if nothing else, this thread has inspired me to go back and watch some Frank Shamrock fights to revise my opinion.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jun 24, 2022 17:26:12 GMT -5
Vince: wahhh, WCW is reading my tv results on tv
Also Vince: Imma double leg this bitch for having integrity
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