BorneAgain
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Post by BorneAgain on Jun 27, 2022 18:07:47 GMT -5
Jar Jar is an interesting case of the funny sidekick going completely wrong. The accent, the early CGI nature of him, his role in the plot, basically the entire character got so much of the execution off that he's still the standout exemplication of what not to do with a humourous figure. At the heart of the problem is that while comedy is always relative, the comedic relief still needs to be critical in the story and there's actually two constrasting examples which help illustrate how to pull the idea off better.
First off is Radagast the Brown from the Hobbit Trilogy. While he definitely had his share of critics, never got nearly the amount of hate Jar Jar got and there's severual reasons. First, Sylvester McCoy is a very experienced actor that simply knows how to give presence to seemingly silly characters, but more importantly the wizard is introduced as and demonstrated as competent, skilled in ways, aware of real danger, and genuinely helpful to the protagonists. His role in the first film is maybe 15 minutes total screen time and yet he basically proves to be more useful in that than the infamous Gungan is the entire Phantom Menace movie; all that in spite of being a guy with bird s*** in his hair.
Secondly is Bad Ape from War of the Planet of the Apes. On paper, he's someone that could have been another Binks; the one lighthearted figure in a serious story, a bit clumsy, and a bit scatterbrained. But 18 years of progress with CGI expressions, actual function in the plot/themes, having a performer like Steve Zahn that can do comedy or drama, and scenes that do explore the depth and tragic backstory of the character effecitvely make him what Jar Jar could have been with better writing and direction.
In a sense, Jar Jar was the Neelix of Star Wars; a potentially strong character undermined by an overrleliance on weak comedy and because of that, a failure to properly achieve their hypotehtical purpose in the narrative.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jun 27, 2022 20:53:26 GMT -5
He stole my girl.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 27, 2022 21:09:07 GMT -5
The Neimodians dress like Qing Dynasty Mandarins and have incredibly stereotypical Japanese accents. Honestly, it's hard to add an accent to a fictional world and not hit some stereotype. The Empire dressed like Nazis and spoke with the received pronunciation of Imperial England (as it would have been too on the nose to dress and speak like Nazis). The Twi'Leks speak in a French accent. All clones of Jango Fett speak in a Kiwi accent (the original actors in AotC both used their natural accent). Many of the alien languages you hear are legitimate real Earth languages. It's impossible to avoid any real accent unless you speak like Peter Cook in The Princess Bride, but that also would be problematic AF because then people would accuse you of mocking people instead of using stereotypes. Yeah but there's a difference between using actors that naturally speak in those accents and the actors doing a science fantasy version of Charlie Chan. Neimoidians were the latter. Twi'leks also have a variety of accents. Hera Syndulla speaks with an American accent for instance.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Jun 27, 2022 22:21:11 GMT -5
Cause he is unfunny and annoying let alone a weird racist take on the Jamaican patois
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Post by darthobiwan on Jun 27, 2022 22:58:39 GMT -5
Other than the over the top annoyances and idiotic nature, he also did not grow as a character nor even contributed anything positive for the story/republic. There was a rumor that Lucas would have had Jar Jar "turn evil/end up evil all along" by episode 2 or 3. And I also remember about 7 years ago, right before Force Awakens came out, there was a huge Star Wars fan theory that Jar Jar was not only evil but also "the true Sith mastermind or Snoke himself", and the main person that came up with the theory gave a scene by scene breakdown on how he was playing everyone all along. Admittingly it sounds a lot better idea for Snoke then what ended up happening (talk about a huge letdown for a villian).
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Jun 27, 2022 23:17:48 GMT -5
Multifaceted. 1. Fans built up Star Wars as something greater than it was which was Lucas' homage to the science fantasy serials of his youth mixed with a healthy bit of Kurosawa. So where a comic relief character would fit in well in that environment, they didn't once fans considered Star Wars to be serious art. 2. TPM suffered from to much relief and not enough tension. We knew which characters had to survive because we knew where the story was going. It's hard to build dramatic tension when that's the case & a bumbling idiot who fails upwards being a prominent side character didn't help. 3. Both the Gungans, and the Trade Federation came off as horrible racial stereotypes. I found them to be embarrassing the first time I saw the movie. Because of that I could never accept or have any affection for the characters. Yes, I think there is a valid point to be said that George didn't realize that many of his fans were now adults and try to make a movie toward that audience. Jar Jar is just way too over the top. It's like Poe Dameron did that "Yo mama" joke" at the beginning of The Last Jedi. It just feels odd for Star Wars. Like low brow humor shouldn't be in it. Slapstick is okay, but Jar Jar reacting to animal farts doesn't work with the rise of this classic evil villain. RedLetterMedia became famous for their reviews of the prequels so they do a much better job of covering the issues.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Jun 27, 2022 23:19:23 GMT -5
Maz Kamata is worse. Why did they decide curry turd color skin and anus eyes was a good choice?
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jun 28, 2022 0:37:16 GMT -5
Honestly, it's hard to add an accent to a fictional world and not hit some stereotype. The Empire dressed like Nazis and spoke with the received pronunciation of Imperial England (as it would have been too on the nose to dress and speak like Nazis). The Twi'Leks speak in a French accent. All clones of Jango Fett speak in a Kiwi accent (the original actors in AotC both used their natural accent). Many of the alien languages you hear are legitimate real Earth languages. It's impossible to avoid any real accent unless you speak like Peter Cook in The Princess Bride, but that also would be problematic AF because then people would accuse you of mocking people instead of using stereotypes. Yeah but there's a difference between using actors that naturally speak in those accents and the actors doing a science fantasy version of Charlie Chan. Neimoidians were the latter. Twi'leks also have a variety of accents. Hera Syndulla speaks with an American accent for instance. Hera Syndulla normally speaks in a non-native accent but her appearance on The Bad Batch as well as her fights with her dad shows her reverting to the French accent.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jun 28, 2022 4:31:48 GMT -5
He was unfunny, slightly racist and EVERYWHERE. Lucas thought he was going to sell massive amounts of merch featuring his wacky new kid friendly character, and he probably did on the backs of speculators, but that was more the strngth of the brand than the character.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 28, 2022 4:53:15 GMT -5
The Neimodians dress like Qing Dynasty Mandarins and have incredibly stereotypical Japanese accents. Honestly, it's hard to add an accent to a fictional world and not hit some stereotype. The Empire dressed like Nazis and spoke with the received pronunciation of Imperial England (as it would have been too on the nose to dress and speak like Nazis). The Twi'Leks speak in a French accent. All clones of Jango Fett speak in a Kiwi accent (the original actors in AotC both used their natural accent). Many of the alien languages you hear are legitimate real Earth languages. It's impossible to avoid any real accent unless you speak like Peter Cook in The Princess Bride, but that also would be problematic AF because then people would accuse you of mocking people instead of using stereotypes. It can be accidental sure, and people will draw, even just subconsciously from things in the world, but when they start adding up.... Like Jar Jar, it's not 1 element, it's the body language and voice like a 1910s minstral character, and the visual choices, the ears looking a bit like dreads, wearing saggy jeans so he looks influenced by rasta culture. You could change any of those elements, of as people have suggested, make him a different, smarter character. Then there's Watto, as pointed out, taking a LOT of negative Jewish stereotypes, the Neimoidians in vaguely east Asian outfits, with those voices and their eyeballs not having pupils but lines making them look slitty. Once would be questionable, 3 new alien races all doing the same thing with different cultures in 1 movie, that's beyond suspicious. If you're taking Earth cultures, you could take a bit from one, a bit from another, mix things up, take something that's a stereotype and use it creatively, challenge it.
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Post by Hurbster on Jun 28, 2022 5:21:53 GMT -5
He knows what he did.
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Jun 28, 2022 6:50:14 GMT -5
Trade jar jar for more darth maul
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jun 28, 2022 8:28:07 GMT -5
Honestly, it's hard to add an accent to a fictional world and not hit some stereotype. The Empire dressed like Nazis and spoke with the received pronunciation of Imperial England (as it would have been too on the nose to dress and speak like Nazis). The Twi'Leks speak in a French accent. All clones of Jango Fett speak in a Kiwi accent (the original actors in AotC both used their natural accent). Many of the alien languages you hear are legitimate real Earth languages. It's impossible to avoid any real accent unless you speak like Peter Cook in The Princess Bride, but that also would be problematic AF because then people would accuse you of mocking people instead of using stereotypes. It can be accidental sure, and people will draw, even just subconsciously from things in the world, but when they start adding up.... Like Jar Jar, it's not 1 element, it's the body language and voice like a 1910s minstral character, and the visual choices, the ears looking a bit like dreads, wearing saggy jeans so he looks influenced by rasta culture. You could change any of those elements, of as people have suggested, make him a different, smarter character. Then there's Watto, as pointed out, taking a LOT of negative Jewish stereotypes, the Neimoidians in vaguely east Asian outfits, with those voices and their eyeballs not having pupils but lines making them look slitty. Once would be questionable, 3 new alien races all doing the same thing with different cultures in 1 movie, that's beyond suspicious. If you're taking Earth cultures, you could take a bit from one, a bit from another, mix things up, take something that's a stereotype and use it creatively, challenge it. I don't have a problem with Watto's design itself and there are examples of his species being absolute paragons of awesomeness (well, until Savage Opress murders them). I do think that a different vocal pattern would have been preferable. Keep the look and personality but have him speak in a way reminiscent of a South African accent or something distinctly not from Eastern Europe, Israel, etc., and those complaints would likely not exist. Honestly, considering that he is on a Hutt planet where many people speak Huttese (including non-Hutts), they should have made his accent influenced by the Quechuan language of South America.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Jun 28, 2022 8:29:44 GMT -5
Why the f*** was Episode 1 so into racist stereotypes
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Jun 28, 2022 8:40:51 GMT -5
Honestly, it's hard to add an accent to a fictional world and not hit some stereotype. The Empire dressed like Nazis and spoke with the received pronunciation of Imperial England (as it would have been too on the nose to dress and speak like Nazis). The Twi'Leks speak in a French accent. All clones of Jango Fett speak in a Kiwi accent (the original actors in AotC both used their natural accent). Many of the alien languages you hear are legitimate real Earth languages. It's impossible to avoid any real accent unless you speak like Peter Cook in The Princess Bride, but that also would be problematic AF because then people would accuse you of mocking people instead of using stereotypes. It can be accidental sure, and people will draw, even just subconsciously from things in the world, but when they start adding up.... Like Jar Jar, it's not 1 element, it's the body language and voice like a 1910s minstral character, and the visual choices, the ears looking a bit like dreads, wearing saggy jeans so he looks influenced by rasta culture. You could change any of those elements, of as people have suggested, make him a different, smarter character. Then there's Watto, as pointed out, taking a LOT of negative Jewish stereotypes, the Neimoidians in vaguely east Asian outfits, with those voices and their eyeballs not having pupils but lines making them look slitty. Once would be questionable, 3 new alien races all doing the same thing with different cultures in 1 movie, that's beyond suspicious. If you're taking Earth cultures, you could take a bit from one, a bit from another, mix things up, take something that's a stereotype and use it creatively, challenge it. I immediately thought of the Ferengi. Once I read that they were accused of being Jewish stereotypes, damn I couldn't unsee that.
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ToyfareMark
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Post by ToyfareMark on Jun 28, 2022 9:28:57 GMT -5
Trade jar jar for more darth maul But not movie Maul cause he's nothing more than a Bond villain henchman. Clone Wars/Rebels Maul is a different story, because he's a completely different character. But movie Maul just straight up sucks.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jun 28, 2022 9:35:19 GMT -5
He was just annoying as shit.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 28, 2022 10:19:46 GMT -5
It can be accidental sure, and people will draw, even just subconsciously from things in the world, but when they start adding up.... Like Jar Jar, it's not 1 element, it's the body language and voice like a 1910s minstral character, and the visual choices, the ears looking a bit like dreads, wearing saggy jeans so he looks influenced by rasta culture. You could change any of those elements, of as people have suggested, make him a different, smarter character. Then there's Watto, as pointed out, taking a LOT of negative Jewish stereotypes, the Neimoidians in vaguely east Asian outfits, with those voices and their eyeballs not having pupils but lines making them look slitty. Once would be questionable, 3 new alien races all doing the same thing with different cultures in 1 movie, that's beyond suspicious. If you're taking Earth cultures, you could take a bit from one, a bit from another, mix things up, take something that's a stereotype and use it creatively, challenge it. I immediately thought of the Ferengi. Once I read that they were accused of being Jewish stereotypes, damn I couldn't unsee that. Oh yeah, Star Trek generally is decent at avoiding that but daaaaaaamn
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Jun 29, 2022 1:56:46 GMT -5
Because Jar Jar actually being a Sith Lord is a real thing.
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Post by mrtuesday on Jun 29, 2022 4:40:02 GMT -5
People forget that the Ewoks got similar hate from older Star Wars fans in the 80's, while they were loved by the younger fans.
Those same younger fans that grew up and hated Jar Jar. Who existed for the same reason the Ewoks did, to appeal to children.
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