Would you have pushed Goldberg differently in WCW?

[Deleted]

If you were Eric Bischoff around 1997, waging war with the WWF at the time, and saw Bill Goldberg for the first time, would you book him any differently than what is in reality?

I asked this because the man had the look and charisma, but was greener than Mongo McMichael(no disrespect for him in light of recent news).

I feel that Goldberg could have been a better wrestler and he would seem to open to improve.

It is tough though, as we are expecting him to be a no selling badass that finish matches under 15 minutes. We all know the Regal match, but I sincerely doubt he was out there to make Goldberg look bad.

At the same time, WCW needed new stars fast. There had to be a middle ground.

[Feyrhausen]

I dont know WCWs house show situation at the time. But if they had a decent schedule then I would have had Goldberg doing longer matches with mid and higher card talent. Let him get some good experience there. Keep him squashing left and right on TV until he is ready to be a proper main eventer.

[tafkaga]

Goldberg was catching lightning in a bottle. All they had to do was start his music, have him walk out and stand in the pyro, then murder some poor jobber, and the crowd devoured it. When you consider how much work they put into getting so many talents over, only for them to only get a fraction of the enthusiasm that Goldberg did, it would have been pretty silly to not just run with it. So, no I wouldn't have pushed him differently.

Where they f'd up with Goldberg was how they used him after he won the belt. Starrcade '98, the heel turn, etc. The Bret Hart feud was really good, and a model for what they should have done with him after he entered the main event picture. Imagine how much mileage they could have gotten out of a feud with Sting, if only they had not just thrown that match away on random Nitro.

[nakedmideon]

WCW gets a lot of stick and rightfully so for some of their booking decisions but Goldberg 97 shouldn't be one of them.i think they used him perfectly given his skill set.Goldbergs booking in later years may have been poor but his streak was well done.
I do get your point about giving him more training though but i think what they got out of Goldberg was worth the early push

[Deleted]

Jul 12, 2022 11:14:22 GMT -5 nakedmideon said:

WCW gets a lot of stick and rightfully so for some of their booking decisions but Goldberg 97 shouldn't be one of them.i think they used him perfectly given his skill set.Goldbergs booking in later years may have been poor but his streak was well done.
I do get your point about giving him more training though but i think what they got out of Goldberg was worth the early push

I guess it also depends on whether Goldberg is going to stick around wrestling in the long term. Yeah, he was in the WWE 2003-2004, but I doubt he was thinking he'll be over there around 1998.

I remember when Jim Cornette was talking about Dave Batista, as Cornette believed that his career projectory of that going to Hollywood 5 years after his run. His reasoning was that Batista was in his mid 30s and had no prior wrestling experience. In addition, he was limited to doing power moves vs mat wrestling or high flying moves.

[Jindrak Mark]

They booked him perfectly until he won the title. It was all downhill after that though, even including the actual title reign. He was playing second fiddle to Hogan most of the time. His matches at BATB and Road Wild felt like midcard stuff, he didn't even have matches at Fall Brawl or WW3, Hogan/Warrior was the most pushed match at Halloween Havoc and Goldberg/DDP were screwed by whoever was time-managing the  show when the PPV went off the air during their entrance. The Starrcade match with Nash was the first time his story was booked as the top thing in the company, largely because Hogan took a month or two off and wasn't around.

Even after the streak ended they had opportunities to run with him as the marquee guy and fans would have went with it. He might never have been mid-1998 over ever again but few wrestlers in history ever have been. He was still far and away their biggest star and best hope but they didn't do anything with him. It's insanity the fact that he never held the world title from 1999-2001. He rarely even main evented PPVs. In 1999 he main evented 2 out of his 9 PPV matches. In 2000 he main evented 1 of 6. He was constantly dicking around doing unimportant stuff while old timers or less over people got the main events. His last match in the company summed the whole thing up. By that point he should have spent much of 2000-01 as the dominant world champion face of the company. It might not have been enough to save the company but it would have been a hell of a lot better than Russo or Arquette or Jarrett multiple times. Instead he's involved in a months long feud with a barely mobile Lex Luger, is teaming with f***ing Dwayne Bruce and gets pinned by Buff Bagwell.

[Wieners=$$$]

Jul 12, 2022 12:18:02 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

They booked him perfectly until he won the title. It was all downhill after that though, even including the actual title reign. He was playing second fiddle to Hogan most of the time. His matches at BATB and Road Wild felt like midcard stuff, he didn't even have matches at Fall Brawl or WW3, Hogan/Warrior was the most pushed match at Halloween Havoc and Goldberg/DDP were screwed by whoever was time-managing the  show when the PPV went off the air during their entrance. The Starrcade match with Nash was the first time his story was booked as the top thing in the company, largely because Hogan took a month or two off and wasn't around.

Even after the streak ended they had opportunities to run with him as the marquee guy and fans would have went with it. He might never have been mid-1998 over ever again but few wrestlers in history ever have been. He was still far and away their biggest star and best hope but they didn't do anything with him. It's insanity the fact that he never held the world title from 1999-2001. He rarely even main evented PPVs. In 1999 he main evented 2 out of his 9 PPV matches. In 2000 he main evented 1 of 6. He was constantly dicking around doing unimportant stuff while old timers or less over people got the main events. His last match in the company summed the whole thing up. By that point he should have spent much of 2000-01 as the dominant world champion face of the company. It might not have been enough to save the company but it would have been a hell of a lot better than Russo or Arquette or Jarrett multiple times. Instead he's involved in a months long feud with a barely mobile Lex Luger, is teaming with f***ing Dwayne Bruce and gets pinned by Buff Bagwell.

Agreed. Goldberg's main event push was always going to be an uphill battle with Hogan's influence backstage. Goldberg's performance issues aside, Hogan was the key factor for Goldberg not having the focus he needed to get over. Hogan dropping the title to Goldberg on a random Nitro suggests Hogan did not want to put Goldberg over on PPV, and that he was trying to protect his spot. Something to this effect was brought up in "The Death of WCW" book, if I remember correctly.

[Clash, Never a Meter Maid]

At the most, I’d have marketed Goldberg even harder and kept the belt on him until mid 1999 when DDP finally gets a three off of a Diamond Cutter and he wins the title.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

He was booked extremely well until he became champion, at which point he was defending against like, Kevin Greene

I would even change the title win

[Dang!]

Absolutely not. Their booking until the title win made the most out of a shitty no talent wrestler.
Goldberg was WCW's version of the Ultimate Warrior.

[The Thread Barbi]

As Bobby Heenan said, it should have been 2000-0 before the streak was broken.

There's so much they could've adjusted and tweaked post World title win to make it truly great.

[Ben Wyatt]

Jul 12, 2022 12:52:46 GMT -5 Clash, Never a Meter Maid said:

At the most, I’d have marketed Goldberg even harder and kept the belt on him until mid 1999 when DDP finally gets a three off of a Diamond Cutter and he wins the title.

Honestly, I might have even had Page beat him at Starrcade 98 if the streak had to end around that time

[thecrusherwi]

Jul 12, 2022 12:36:17 GMT -5 Wieners=$$$ said:

Jul 12, 2022 12:18:02 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

They booked him perfectly until he won the title. It was all downhill after that though, even including the actual title reign. He was playing second fiddle to Hogan most of the time. His matches at BATB and Road Wild felt like midcard stuff, he didn't even have matches at Fall Brawl or WW3, Hogan/Warrior was the most pushed match at Halloween Havoc and Goldberg/DDP were screwed by whoever was time-managing the  show when the PPV went off the air during their entrance. The Starrcade match with Nash was the first time his story was booked as the top thing in the company, largely because Hogan took a month or two off and wasn't around.

Even after the streak ended they had opportunities to run with him as the marquee guy and fans would have went with it. He might never have been mid-1998 over ever again but few wrestlers in history ever have been. He was still far and away their biggest star and best hope but they didn't do anything with him. It's insanity the fact that he never held the world title from 1999-2001. He rarely even main evented PPVs. In 1999 he main evented 2 out of his 9 PPV matches. In 2000 he main evented 1 of 6. He was constantly dicking around doing unimportant stuff while old timers or less over people got the main events. His last match in the company summed the whole thing up. By that point he should have spent much of 2000-01 as the dominant world champion face of the company. It might not have been enough to save the company but it would have been a hell of a lot better than Russo or Arquette or Jarrett multiple times. Instead he's involved in a months long feud with a barely mobile Lex Luger, is teaming with f***ing Dwayne Bruce and gets pinned by Buff Bagwell.

Agreed. Goldberg's main event push was always going to be an uphill battle with Hogan's influence backstage. Goldberg's performance issues aside, Hogan was the key factor for Goldberg not having the focus he needed to get over. Hogan dropping the title to Goldberg on a random Nitro suggests Hogan did not want to put Goldberg over on PPV, and that he was trying to protect his spot. Something to this effect was brought up in "The Death of WCW" book, if I remember correctly.

I agree that Hogan was the roadblock to Goldberg becoming the face of the company, but that is always Bischoff’s and WCW’s fault. Hogan wasn’t politicking; he was exercising his contractual rights. He was contractually promised a certain number of PPV main events per year, and anything he did creatively had to be approved by him before it could happen. And he got paid per TV appearance too (some absurd amount - like a $25k minimum per TV appearance). If WCW wanted someone else to be their main star, they needed buy out Hogan. Honestly, Hogan putting over Goldberg was more than he had to do contractually. They signed Hogan to a ludicrous contract. It’s not Hogan’s fault he held them to it for his own maximum benefit.

[The Thread Barbi]

Jul 13, 2022 7:29:25 GMT -5 thecrusherwi said:

Jul 12, 2022 12:36:17 GMT -5 Wieners=$$$ said:

Agreed. Goldberg's main event push was always going to be an uphill battle with Hogan's influence backstage. Goldberg's performance issues aside, Hogan was the key factor for Goldberg not having the focus he needed to get over. Hogan dropping the title to Goldberg on a random Nitro suggests Hogan did not want to put Goldberg over on PPV, and that he was trying to protect his spot. Something to this effect was brought up in "The Death of WCW" book, if I remember correctly.

I agree that Hogan was the roadblock to Goldberg becoming the face of the company, but that is always Bischoff’s and WCW’s fault. Hogan wasn’t politicking; he was exercising his contractual rights. He was contractually promised a certain number of PPV main events per year, and anything he did creatively had to be approved by him before it could happen. And he got paid per TV appearance too (some absurd amount - like a $25k minimum per TV appearance). If WCW wanted someone else to be their main star, they needed buy out Hogan. Honestly, Hogan putting over Goldberg was more than he had to do contractually. They signed Hogan to a ludicrous contract. It’s not Hogan’s fault he held them to it for his own maximum benefit.

I don't see Hogan as a roadblock to Goldberg. He allowed Goldberg to kick out of three leg-drops and got pinned clean in Goldberg's hometown. He genuinely saw Goldberg as a marquee name.

Not even Warrior got that kind of treatment in 1990 - different times but still...

Goldberg's reign goes more on Bischoff and WCW mismanagement as you said.

[buckethead]

Goldberg should've lost to DDP at Halloween Havoc. Could've had a rematch at a later PPV where Goldberg regains the title.

This wouldn't be any worse than what actually happened.

Jul 13, 2022 6:32:20 GMT -5 The Thread Barbi said:

As Bobby Heenan said, it should have been 2000-0 before the streak was broken.

The public would have tired of it long before 2000. This wasn't Andre in the 70s-80s. The streak needed to end in an upset in 98 or 99 tops...not the crap they pulled.

[nickcave]

Nash ending the streak was fine, immediately turning Nash heel again to reform the nWo was why it was bad. If he had stayed the incredibly over face he was it would have been fine.

[Mozenrath]

Jul 13, 2022 18:51:10 GMT -5 nickcave said:

Nash ending the streak was fine, immediately turning Nash heel again to reform the nWo was why it was bad. If he had stayed the incredibly over face he was it would have been fine.

Right, like if they had Hogan *expect* a "Nash lays down for me and I win the title" thing, and Nash refuses, that'd at least be something potentially compelling. Have it turn into a no contest due to a brawl or something and save the actual match for later.

[tafkaga]

Jul 13, 2022 17:26:46 GMT -5 buckethead said:

Goldberg should've lost to DDP at Halloween Havoc. Could've had a rematch at a later PPV where Goldberg regains the title.

This wouldn't be any worse than what actually happened.

Jul 13, 2022 6:32:20 GMT -5 The Thread Barbi said:

As Bobby Heenan said, it should have been 2000-0 before the streak was broken.

The public would have tired of it long before 2000. This wasn't Andre in the 70s-80s. The streak needed to end in an upset in 98 or 99 tops...not the crap they pulled.

And it didn't even need to end with Goldberg laid out by someone's finisher or silly outside interference cop out.  It could have ended with a rollup or some kind of special circumstance that humanized the character without diminishing him.  Nash was a bad choice to beat Goldberg.  It should have been Bret Hart, DDP, or someone who could use some finesse.

[1 Free Moon-Down with Burger]

I would’ve had Goldberg win for atleast another year.

[sungod2020]

I do agree that Goldberg was booked well until winning the World Heavyweight Championship, but I think they gave it to him too soon. While I can understand WCW wanting to have a "big money match" in the Georgia Dome, and against Hulk Hogan no less, it was nothing more than a quick ratings grab against RAW and there was no long-term gain from it. I think it was also a week after "Stone Cold" Steve Austin defeated Kane to become WWF champion the night after losing it to him(which WWF shouldn't have done either, have Kane keep it until Summerslam, but that's another story).

I would've had Goldberg get into a meaningful US title program FIRST with one of their top midcarders(Buff Bagwell, Scott Steiner, etc etc). That way, the fans get to know him more other than the streak. He can even lose it to one of them at a PPV via shenanigans, only to win it back at the next PPV. By Starrcade, as a fully established star, he can take on Hulk Hogan for the World Heavyweight Championship, and beat him decisively.

Hogan can then go back for revenge, but keeps falling short. Goldberg can then dismantle the NWO one by one, and then dissention can brew within the group, with the final blow being at a War Games match at say Spring Stampede. WCW then finally gets to move on from the NWO, and Goldberg is now a firmly established main eventer.

He can then go onto feud and trade the title with WCW main eventers such as DDP, Scott Steiner, Booker T, Kevin Nash, Sid so on and so forth. This can possibly help WCW last longer provided they don't make the stupid decisions they've made, but at least this can be a start.