Ben Wyatt
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Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 27, 2022 15:13:47 GMT -5
He knew how to blueprint a tv show and allocate time well. However, his ideas were too out there. Bischoff and Jarrett have straight up said the dude doesn't understand how to structure a story Right. Those 2, Bruce and a couple others have all said the same thing: He never had an answer for ".....and then what?".
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2022 15:18:02 GMT -5
The most charitably I can say is this : He was a man for a specific time and a specific place. And it wasn't a very long time. He is 100% stuck in like Mid-1997 I've seen this said many times over the years, and my response to it has always been that yes, he made sure everyone had something to do; the problem is that most of what he gave them was shit, and a lot of those people probably would have been better off if he'd just not given them anything. Yeah, sometimes nothing is better than absolute garbage... absolute garbage gimmicks CAN and has killed careers. That is almost 100% the type of ideas Russo had for people.... Bingo. I love wacky characters and goofy outfits, but I'd still rather see Chad Gable: good wrestler than Shorty G.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,529
|
Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 27, 2022 15:22:18 GMT -5
He is 100% stuck in like Mid-1997 Yeah, sometimes nothing is better than absolute garbage... absolute garbage gimmicks CAN and has killed careers. That is almost 100% the type of ideas Russo had for people.... Bingo. I love wacky characters and goofy outfits, but I'd still rather see Chad Gable: good wrestler than Shorty G. I mean Christ, I'd rather have Mosh than Beaver Cleavage or faux women beater Chaz
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Jul 27, 2022 16:12:47 GMT -5
I respect your opinion, but I think a lot of people look back at his time in power with some serious nostalgia goggles on. The stuff that was REALLY good involved folks like Rock, Austin, HBK, Bret (early on), HHH, Taker, Kane and other people that were just objectively generational talents.
I think in theory, the idea that you want everybody doing something is a great one, but I'm honestly struggling to think of gimmicks and characters that Russo created that stood the test of time.
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Post by eJm on Jul 27, 2022 16:15:04 GMT -5
I respect your opinion, but I think a lot of people look back at his time in power with some serious nostalgia goggles on. The stuff that was REALLY good involved folks like Rock, Austin, HBK, Bret (early on), HHH, Taker, Kane and other people that were just objectively generational talents. I think in theory, the idea that you want everybody doing something is a great one, but I'm honestly struggling to think of gimmicks and characters that Russo created that stood the test of time. Meat, clearly. It was the second best use of Shawn Stasiak before Planet Stasiak (The gimmick he had near the end of WCW where he’d give his photo to people is debatable third)
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jul 27, 2022 17:06:25 GMT -5
I respect your opinion, but I think a lot of people look back at his time in power with some serious nostalgia goggles on. The stuff that was REALLY good involved folks like Rock, Austin, HBK, Bret (early on), HHH, Taker, Kane and other people that were just objectively generational talents. I think in theory, the idea that you want everybody doing something is a great one, but I'm honestly struggling to think of gimmicks and characters that Russo created that stood the test of time. Meat, clearly. It was the second best use of Shawn Stasiak before Planet Stasiak (The gimmick he had near the end of WCW where he’d give his photo to people is debatable third) I enjoyed 'pratfalling moron' circa 2001 muchly
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Post by eJm on Jul 27, 2022 17:10:04 GMT -5
Meat, clearly. It was the second best use of Shawn Stasiak before Planet Stasiak (The gimmick he had near the end of WCW where he’d give his photo to people is debatable third) I enjoyed 'pratfalling moron' circa 2001 muchly I’d tie it with the Model era. Looking back on it it was fun, but at the time, it was the thing that made me realize the InVasion angle was actually shit. It turned me into a smark, basically.
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Post by celtics543 on Jul 28, 2022 5:17:08 GMT -5
Russo wrote amazing first chapters. He got you hooked on a story but he didn't know how to finish them. His positives were his beginnings and that everyone was involved in something, no matter how insane it was. I've already answered with my opinion but I want to chime in here... he may have had great ideas for "stories", but I feel at no time was "wrestling" ever going to be part of that story. I'm a wrestling fan who wants to see wrestling. Call me crazy, call me a dinosaur, call me an "old man yelling at a cloud"... I'm just a rasslin' fan. That's true but wrestling fans are probably always going to watch. Russo brought in the casual fans. I think different things bring in different people. Personally I enjoy the wrestling part but without the stories it's just two guys doing gymnastics in small tights. For me, the stories are what I can get lost in and really want to cheer for one guy over the other. But I grew up on the WWF, if I had grown up earlier on NWA stuff maybe I'd feel differently. Also, I was 10 in 1998 so I think the stuff Russo was doing was basically aimed at kids a little older than me and I was sucked in with it. If I'd been 34 then instead of now maybe I'd look at it differently.
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Post by eJm on Jul 28, 2022 5:27:07 GMT -5
That's true but wrestling fans are probably always going to watch. Russo brought in the casual fans. If you want to get technical, the creative team (not just Russo) brought in people who didn't watch wrestling because wrestling was the cool thing at the time, especially when people changed channels from Raw to Nitro to see what was going on. It was the thing people talked about for a bit. And then it wasn't cool so people stopped watching. From my own school experience, the moment WWF brought WCW, nobody talked about pro wrestling anymore because it wasn't the cool thing and the charm of watching it went. The people who keep chasing that brief time 20 years ago, honestly, fail to acknowledge that because they don't want to put The Monday Night Wars in the same cultural place as the Gen 1 era of Pokémon or the first few seasons of NCIS or even, going back to my own personal experience, the first Yu-Gi-Oh show. There's only so many times Konami is going to get the casual player in with more Dark Magician and Blue-Eyes White Dragon cards before they have to remember they have to keep the rest of the fanbase happy, too.
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Post by celtics543 on Jul 28, 2022 5:34:39 GMT -5
I respect your opinion, but I think a lot of people look back at his time in power with some serious nostalgia goggles on. The stuff that was REALLY good involved folks like Rock, Austin, HBK, Bret (early on), HHH, Taker, Kane and other people that were just objectively generational talents. I think in theory, the idea that you want everybody doing something is a great one, but I'm honestly struggling to think of gimmicks and characters that Russo created that stood the test of time. That's not entirely true. I'd say the Godfather, Stevie Richards, Jarrett, Val Venis, and a handful of other midcard guys saw their greatest success under Russo. He always had something for people to do and some of those guys really got over. Now, he had a lot of terrible stuff and some guys got over only to find they were in a dead-end gimmick but Godfather was going nowhere as Kama so that was a big move for him.
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Post by celtics543 on Jul 28, 2022 5:39:01 GMT -5
That's true but wrestling fans are probably always going to watch. Russo brought in the casual fans. If you want to get technical, the creative team (not just Russo) brought in people who didn't watch wrestling because wrestling was the cool thing at the time, especially when people changed channels from Raw to Nitro to see what was going on. It was the thing people talked about for a bit. And then it wasn't cool so people stopped watching. From my own school experience, the moment WWF brought WCW, nobody talked about pro wrestling anymore because it wasn't the cool thing and the charm of watching it went. The people who keep chasing that brief time 20 years ago, honestly, fail to acknowledge that because they don't want to put The Monday Night Wars in the same cultural place as the Gen 1 era of Pokémon or the first few seasons of NCIS or even, going back to my own personal experience, the first Yu-Gi-Oh show. There's only so many times Konami is going to get the casual player in with more Dark Magician and Blue-Eyes White Dragon cards before they have to remember they have to keep the rest of the fanbase happy, too. That's true. I think you could argue the same for Vince McMahon. He had the vision of going national but wrestling was hot in the late 80's and the late 90's. Other than that it's never really been truly mainstream. Certain characters have gone mainstream but the product as a whole hasn't. If we're going to knock Russo for falling out of the mainstream quickly I'm not sure how much more credit we can give any creative team or creative person. I just think it's a little unfair to him that he headed up creative during the hottest period in the history of any wrestling company and when people talk about bookers they put him last. He needed a filter but he was the head of creative, just under Vince, for the hottest period ever. Heyman, Watts, Von erich, Gagne, etc. can't say the same but routinely will be talked about as better creative people. And yes he had talent to work with but just the same way Heyman did great stuff with his top guys and a lot of crap with the bottom of the barrel guys. We look at ECW with nostalgia glasses but a lot of it was crap. Russo is just a real dick head so it's easy to bash him. And he doesn't help himself at all.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 28, 2022 5:39:45 GMT -5
I respect your opinion, but I think a lot of people look back at his time in power with some serious nostalgia goggles on. The stuff that was REALLY good involved folks like Rock, Austin, HBK, Bret (early on), HHH, Taker, Kane and other people that were just objectively generational talents. I think in theory, the idea that you want everybody doing something is a great one, but I'm honestly struggling to think of gimmicks and characters that Russo created that stood the test of time. That's not entirely true. I'd say the Godfather, Stevie Richards, Jarrett, Val Venis, and a handful of other midcard guys saw their greatest success under Russo. He always had something for people to do and some of those guys really got over. Now, he had a lot of terrible stuff and some guys got over only to find they were in a dead-end gimmick but Godfather was going nowhere as Kama so that was a big move for him. I would think RTC Steven Richards was probably Stevie's career highlight, given he got a shitload of TV time and relevance, but that's me. I would agree with Jarrett and Godfather, though, and arguably Venis, though his brief pairing with Trish was also arguably his peak in terms of push, beating the very popular Rikishi for the IC title.
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Post by celtics543 on Jul 28, 2022 5:46:36 GMT -5
That's not entirely true. I'd say the Godfather, Stevie Richards, Jarrett, Val Venis, and a handful of other midcard guys saw their greatest success under Russo. He always had something for people to do and some of those guys really got over. Now, he had a lot of terrible stuff and some guys got over only to find they were in a dead-end gimmick but Godfather was going nowhere as Kama so that was a big move for him. I would think RTC Steven Richards was probably Stevie's career highlight, given he got a shitload of TV time and relevance, but that's me. I would agree with Jarrett and Godfather, though, and arguably Venis, though his brief pairing with Trish was also arguably his peak in terms of push, beating the very popular Rikishi for the IC title. Shit, was RTC Stevie not in the Russo era? It's been a while, I was thinking that was when Russo was still there. If not then I retract Stevie.
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 28, 2022 6:00:13 GMT -5
I would think RTC Steven Richards was probably Stevie's career highlight, given he got a shitload of TV time and relevance, but that's me. I would agree with Jarrett and Godfather, though, and arguably Venis, though his brief pairing with Trish was also arguably his peak in terms of push, beating the very popular Rikishi for the IC title. Shit, was RTC Stevie not in the Russo era? It's been a while, I was thinking that was when Russo was still there. If not then I retract Stevie. Yeah, RTC was in 2000, I believe, Russo having left in 1999. It was kind of funny in that yeah, WWE was taking a shot at the PTC, Parents Television Council, which indeed sucked, but WWE did also use it to dial back some of their stuff, so... I guess PTC got a partial victory on that front.
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Post by eJm on Jul 28, 2022 6:03:51 GMT -5
Shit, was RTC Stevie not in the Russo era? It's been a while, I was thinking that was when Russo was still there. If not then I retract Stevie. Yeah, RTC was in 2000, I believe, Russo having left in 1999. It was kind of funny in that yeah, WWE was taking a shot at the PTC, Parents Television Council, which indeed sucked, but WWE did also use it to dial back some of their stuff, so... I guess PTC got a partial victory on that front. Still was the funniest things that, in canon, RTC won. It took them a few more years but they did.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 28, 2022 6:07:36 GMT -5
Yeah, RTC was in 2000, I believe, Russo having left in 1999. It was kind of funny in that yeah, WWE was taking a shot at the PTC, Parents Television Council, which indeed sucked, but WWE did also use it to dial back some of their stuff, so... I guess PTC got a partial victory on that front. Still was the funniest things that, in canon, RTC won. It took them a few more years but they did. I did find it funny that Godfather went "legit" later, presumably just conducting business in Nevada, which I guess was less scandalous.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jul 28, 2022 6:33:38 GMT -5
He knew how to blueprint a tv show and allocate time well. However, his ideas were too out there. I would direct you to watch the infamous 10/14/10 Impact, an episode built around the payoff to a major Vince Russo storyline, and then see if you still feel this way. Idea out-there-ness was not the biggest problem with that particular episode of television.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,529
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 28, 2022 6:38:16 GMT -5
He knew how to blueprint a tv show and allocate time well. However, his ideas were too out there. I would direct you to watch the infamous 10/14/10 Impact, an episode built around the payoff to a major Vince Russo storyline, and then see if you still feel this way. Idea out-there-ness was not the biggest problem with that particular episode of television. I'm pretty sure that Impact just ended about 20 min ago
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Post by eJm on Jul 28, 2022 6:41:55 GMT -5
I would direct you to watch the infamous 10/14/10 Impact, an episode built around the payoff to a major Vince Russo storyline, and then see if you still feel this way. Idea out-there-ness was not the biggest problem with that particular episode of television. I'm pretty sure that Impact just ended about 20 min ago Just tuning in and…no, Bischoff thought we were dumb so he’s re-explaining how the plan worked.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,529
|
Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 28, 2022 6:46:04 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that Impact just ended about 20 min ago Just tuning in and…no, Bischoff thought we were dumb so he’s re-explaining how the plan worked. ....dammit
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