agent817
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Post by agent817 on Sept 17, 2022 10:02:03 GMT -5
As kind of a follow-up to that thread about Val Venis vs. Kaientai, I wanted to talk about this. It wasn't too long afterwards that we had Val Venis feuding with "born-again Christian" Dustin Runnels. We had those videos of Val in bed with Terri Runnels. I remember them being called "The Preacher's Wife," "How Terri Got her Groove," and "There's Something About Terri." Then I remembered a pre-taped segment with Val cutting a promo saying that he would take everything that Dustin "has left."
Were we supposed to root for Val Venis in this angle? Then it took a major turn once Goldust made his return. One thing I liked about this angle was that it did a 180 because fans cheered for Goldust, while Val Venis was terrified of the Bizarre One, when not long before that, he was tormenting Dustin Runnels.
So who were we supposed to root for in this angle? Who were we supposed to root against?
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Sept 17, 2022 12:32:03 GMT -5
Val Venis sure was a total asshole for a face character.
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Post by jason1980s on Sept 17, 2022 12:38:49 GMT -5
I don't think Val turned face until late 1998 when teaming with the Godfather.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Sept 17, 2022 12:50:31 GMT -5
Val was the heel really but in an unofficial heel turn. He debut as the face. But Goldust returned was such a MASSIVE pop. It was a total Russo swerve with who the heel and face was.
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Post by Jumpin' Jesse Walsh on Sept 17, 2022 14:17:44 GMT -5
I’m not sure how we were supposed to feel bad for Dustin considering he berated and publicly dumped Terri the year prior to that.
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Post by DSR on Sept 17, 2022 14:21:37 GMT -5
SHADES OF GRAY, BRO!
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Sept 17, 2022 15:03:33 GMT -5
Val was coming off the Kaientai feud where he was the face even though again from an ethic standpoint there's no way he should've been. With the Dustin feud I really don't know. I guess they were both tweeners.
1998 WWF is kind of a blind spot for me I was more into WCW at the time and it's not really a time I have much interest revisiting when watching old stuff either on Peacock or YouTUbe. IIRC Dustin was doing the preacher gimmick where I think he was supposed to be a face. He of course took umbrage with Venis and I remember him attacking Val from behind (which is a definite heel move) to start the feud. Val then responded by banging his wife and making a film out of it which is DEFINITELY a heel move. They then had a match on PPV where Val won and IIRC was working more like the heel in the match. Then Goldust came back and then the face/heel alignment became much more clear and the feud became much better as a result with Dustin going back to his edgier alter ego to get revenge on his cheating wife and the guy she was cheating on him with. However yeah prior to that it's hard to say.
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Sept 17, 2022 16:03:06 GMT -5
Heel vs Heel, bro!
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Post by Aceorton on Sept 17, 2022 16:26:40 GMT -5
Even beyond the alignments (or lack thereof), I didn't really understand the motivations of Dustin's character. Was the preacher/born-again thing just an attempt at a mind game? If so, a mind game against whom? IIRC, he was doing it before he started beefing specifically with Val.
Was it another desperate cry for attention, like when he was with Luna?
Or had he actually hit bottom and regretted leaving his family, and found God along the way?
If it was the last one, then I guess we were supposed to get behind that, especially when Venis started making the movies with Terri (Dustin looked really tortured when those were shown). But then he also got pretty heavy-handed on the mic, criticizing the "adultery" and saying Val and Terri were going to hell, which came off as hypocritical and heelish. And then he basically got destroyed every time he wrestled as plain ol' Repenting Dustin.
If it wasn't a long mind game, then it also made zero sense that he suddenly returned as Goldust (with a new signature move where he kicked guys straight in the nuts), and we probably shouldn't have been cheering him for so quickly abandoning his faith.
I'm probably trying way too hard to make sense of Russo booking.
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Sept 17, 2022 16:41:14 GMT -5
Even beyond the alignments (or lack thereof), I didn't really understand the motivations of Dustin's character. Was the preacher/born-again thing just an attempt at a mind game? If so, a mind game against whom? IIRC, he was doing it before he started beefing specifically with Val. Was it another desperate cry for attention, like when he was with Luna? Or had he actually hit bottom and regretted leaving his family, and found God along the way? If it was the last one, then I guess we were supposed to get behind that, especially when Venis started making the movies with Terri (Dustin looked really tortured when those were shown). But then he also got pretty heavy-handed on the mic, criticizing the "adultery" and saying Val and Terri were going to hell, which came off as hypocritical and heelish. And then he basically got destroyed every time he wrestled as plain ol' Repenting Dustin. If it wasn't a long mind game, then it also made zero sense that he suddenly returned as Goldust (with a new signature move where he kicked guys straight in the nuts), and we probably shouldn't have been cheering him for so quickly abandoning his faith. I'm probably trying way too hard to make sense of Russo booking. Character wise, partially a cry for attention perhaps, but he did do a whole promo before he started it where he burned a Goldust outfit on stage, denouncing it (especially since this was after the "Artist Formerly Known As" period of the character, the most outlandish version since the original run). Though IIRC I don't think he ever won a match in the preacher gimmick.
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Post by Sir Woodrow on Sept 17, 2022 17:44:27 GMT -5
Val Venis sure is a total asshole.
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Post by Aceorton on Sept 17, 2022 19:07:59 GMT -5
Even beyond the alignments (or lack thereof), I didn't really understand the motivations of Dustin's character. Was the preacher/born-again thing just an attempt at a mind game? If so, a mind game against whom? IIRC, he was doing it before he started beefing specifically with Val. Was it another desperate cry for attention, like when he was with Luna? Or had he actually hit bottom and regretted leaving his family, and found God along the way? If it was the last one, then I guess we were supposed to get behind that, especially when Venis started making the movies with Terri (Dustin looked really tortured when those were shown). But then he also got pretty heavy-handed on the mic, criticizing the "adultery" and saying Val and Terri were going to hell, which came off as hypocritical and heelish. And then he basically got destroyed every time he wrestled as plain ol' Repenting Dustin. If it wasn't a long mind game, then it also made zero sense that he suddenly returned as Goldust (with a new signature move where he kicked guys straight in the nuts), and we probably shouldn't have been cheering him for so quickly abandoning his faith. I'm probably trying way too hard to make sense of Russo booking. Character wise, partially a cry for attention perhaps, but he did do a whole promo before he started it where he burned a Goldust outfit on stage, denouncing it (especially since this was after the "Artist Formerly Known As" period of the character, the most outlandish version since the original run). Though IIRC I don't think he ever won a match in the preacher gimmick. I forgot about him burning the outfit, and also the "HE is coming back" stuff. That does make the whole thing even sillier. He ditched the gimmick that had made him a huge star, spent a few months losing constantly and looking pathetic, teased that the gimmick was returning, and then brought back the gimmick. He didn't come out ahead in any way. This summarizes a lot: www.wrestlecrap.com/inductions/dustin-runnels/
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Post by sungod2020 on Sept 17, 2022 19:21:47 GMT -5
Even beyond the alignments (or lack thereof), I didn't really understand the motivations of Dustin's character. Was the preacher/born-again thing just an attempt at a mind game? If so, a mind game against whom? IIRC, he was doing it before he started beefing specifically with Val. Was it another desperate cry for attention, like when he was with Luna? Or had he actually hit bottom and regretted leaving his family, and found God along the way? If it was the last one, then I guess we were supposed to get behind that, especially when Venis started making the movies with Terri (Dustin looked really tortured when those were shown). But then he also got pretty heavy-handed on the mic, criticizing the "adultery" and saying Val and Terri were going to hell, which came off as hypocritical and heelish. And then he basically got destroyed every time he wrestled as plain ol' Repenting Dustin. If it wasn't a long mind game, then it also made zero sense that he suddenly returned as Goldust (with a new signature move where he kicked guys straight in the nuts), and we probably shouldn't have been cheering him for so quickly abandoning his faith. I'm probably trying way too hard to make sense of Russo booking. To make this even more convoluted than it already was, wasn't he also criticizing the fans and calling them sinners for enjoying the product? If he did, why the hell was he even working for the company, and why should we feel sorry for him being betrayed by his wife(and being called a Jezebel on commentary for dating a porn star) when a year earlier, he dumped her for a bondage queen leading to very uncomfortable segments? I think my brain just exploded by trying to make sense of all this.
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Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on Sept 17, 2022 19:41:43 GMT -5
Heel: Marriage, God
Face: Terri's lingerie, airhorns
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Sept 17, 2022 19:45:44 GMT -5
Character wise, partially a cry for attention perhaps, but he did do a whole promo before he started it where he burned a Goldust outfit on stage, denouncing it (especially since this was after the "Artist Formerly Known As" period of the character, the most outlandish version since the original run). Though IIRC I don't think he ever won a match in the preacher gimmick. I forgot about him burning the outfit, and also the "HE is coming back" stuff. That does make the whole thing even sillier. He ditched the gimmick that had made him a huge star, spent a few months losing constantly and looking pathetic, teased that the gimmick was returning, and then brought back the gimmick. He didn't come out ahead in any way. This summarizes a lot: www.wrestlecrap.com/inductions/dustin-runnels/I mean, it did eventually lead him to taking the IC title off Road Dogg, so small blessings?
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Post by Aceorton on Sept 17, 2022 21:17:16 GMT -5
I forgot about him burning the outfit, and also the "HE is coming back" stuff. That does make the whole thing even sillier. He ditched the gimmick that had made him a huge star, spent a few months losing constantly and looking pathetic, teased that the gimmick was returning, and then brought back the gimmick. He didn't come out ahead in any way. This summarizes a lot: www.wrestlecrap.com/inductions/dustin-runnels/I mean, it did eventually lead him to taking the IC title off Road Dogg, so small blessings? And he was a full-blown heel again as Goldust by that point, doing the twisted perv-family thing with Blue Meanie and Ryan Shamrock (who bounced to Goldust after ALSO making dirty movies with Venis). You guys ... [whispers] I think maybe the Attitude Era had shitty writing.
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
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Post by CMWaters on Sept 17, 2022 21:51:00 GMT -5
I mean, it did eventually lead him to taking the IC title off Road Dogg, so small blessings? And he was a full-blown heel again as Goldust by that point, doing the twisted perv-family thing with Blue Meanie and Ryan Shamrock (who bounced to Goldust after ALSO making dirty movies with Venis). You guys ... [whispers] I think maybe the Attitude Era had shitty writing.
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agent817
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Post by agent817 on Sept 18, 2022 9:12:17 GMT -5
And he was a full-blown heel again as Goldust by that point, doing the twisted perv-family thing with Blue Meanie and Ryan Shamrock (who bounced to Goldust after ALSO making dirty movies with Venis). You guys ... [whispers] I think maybe the Attitude Era had shitty writing.Somehow I knew that someone was going to post this picture.
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msc
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Post by msc on Sept 18, 2022 11:35:19 GMT -5
It started with Val Venis as the face going after the hypocrite Dustin. But then in going after Dustin's ex wife, publicly parading the fact, and even mocking his own religion, face Val looked like a complete asshole. And the crowds were siding with Rhodes because he was so good at being the pitiful underdog, so WWE just went and brought back Goldust, made him the face, and had him win the feud. f It looks like a mess, because it is. They turned Dustin back into Goldust to save the angle, but had no long term plans for him, hence him turning heel again randomly in 1999, winning the IC title, then leaving the company.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 18, 2022 12:34:53 GMT -5
Almost everyone was basically a heel in WWF at the time
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