|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 15, 2022 10:05:51 GMT -5
I never liked them giving Jay White Bullet Club. He should had his own group under his own image It would have probably helped if they had given him a protege, like someone outside of Gedo who was a Jay guy, sort of a group within a group like the Elite had been. Bad as it's been, that's something EVIL with House of Torture has done more effectively than him. I honestly think KENTA would be a better leader, so if Jay loses to OKada, have KENTA put him out of his mistery with a Go 2 Sleep and assume control. BC is long in the tooth, to say the least, but it sells t-shirts, do I know they're not going to likely kill it anytime soon. The basic principle and barebones is Bullet Club is still a massive merch seller and it was an easy fix to give it to him since they looked like they were finally going to die but it just doesn't fit Jay. Now, if they had Jay fit it to his image It doesn't help they teased the BC split storyline a few times for it to mean nothing
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 15, 2022 10:09:49 GMT -5
Yeah, the man is a star. He's basically Cerebral Assassin HHH before the quad injuries and at a higher work rate. Like it takes a lot of work for him to be a wrestler who counters off each guy move while keeping the match flowingThis is it right here. The answer to what people see in Jay White is right here. "Wrestler who works a heavily counter-based offense where he just nopes the hell out of top dudes' shit and turns it around into something to slap them down with" sounds like a character idea someone came up with playing Day of Reckoning. Like someone's funny cool gimmick idea they get week four of wrestling school and everyone rolls their eyes over it because no you're a newbie nobody is putting you out like that shut up. But Jay White's really done it, and he's made it awesome. New Japan is even the perfect match style to run that kind of act in. It's great. His wrestling is super underrated. Like, idk why people still hold the Tanahashi WK match against him when Tana was supposed to make him but was obviously working hurt. Once you saw what he can do the next night vs Omega, you knew the hype was real with him being the best prospect since Okada. It is really hard to wrestle his style and still keep the matches at a consistent pace while telling a story and he has perfected it. It is a gimmick and style that really shouldn't work but it does and it is amazing to see
|
|
Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,161
|
Post by Allie Kitsune on Oct 15, 2022 10:12:20 GMT -5
I think in the long run being tied to Bullet Club has hurt Jay more than helped. Mostly because the stable and it's imagery/vibe is way past its sell by date and probably should have wrapped up a couple of years ago. By being so closely associated Jay gets smeared by the rot coming off BC and it taints him. To a degree, but I think the bigger hurt was that he got the world title when he wasn't really at that level yet. It's not the only time Gedo has done that, since he gave it to Okada when he was still trying to make it work, too, and both guys did grow into the role, but it made it VERY obvious they were throwing everything behind Jay, and coming off of Omega leaving, it did make Jay look like a try-hard. Part of that is why Jay is still kind of "just OK" to me, and doesn't have a #1 Guy vibe to me. I'm not saying that he couldn't be, but there are some things about his presentation that still don't quite fit. And yeah, I think a good portion of that is Bullet Club.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 15, 2022 10:49:05 GMT -5
To a degree, but I think the bigger hurt was that he got the world title when he wasn't really at that level yet. It's not the only time Gedo has done that, since he gave it to Okada when he was still trying to make it work, too, and both guys did grow into the role, but it made it VERY obvious they were throwing everything behind Jay, and coming off of Omega leaving, it did make Jay look like a try-hard. I mean you're not wrong. It was a perfect storm of White really not being ready and a gimmick that was still developing. I know of lots of people who still write off Jay because of that period when he's grown leaps and bounds and really is that main event talent now. And do BC still shift merch? Because any live show I've been to the bc shirts on display were very old. He wasn't ready but it was the right move since he wasn't going to have the title long anyway and it continued to draw the obvious parallels between him and Okada. It wasn't a bad run and people obviously forgot how tremendous a U.S. Champ he was. Once he won the World title he took a major step up
|
|
|
Post by ANuclearError on Oct 15, 2022 11:26:22 GMT -5
I mean you're not wrong. It was a perfect storm of White really not being ready and a gimmick that was still developing. I know of lots of people who still write off Jay because of that period when he's grown leaps and bounds and really is that main event talent now. And do BC still shift merch? Because any live show I've been to the bc shirts on display were very old. He wasn't ready but it was the right move since he wasn't going to have the title long anyway and it continued to draw the obvious parallels between him and Okada. It wasn't a bad run and people obviously forgot how tremendous a U.S. Champ he was. Once he won the World title he took a major step up His match with Juice for the US belt was very good at demonstrating his heel work early on. With Bullet Club, I think there was a reluctance at the time to mess with the stable dynamics at the time. Now that we have United Empire as a major force in Japan, and the House of Torture splinter group, I think easing off Bullet Club into something new would be a good idea. White, KENTA, Ishimori and ELP is definitely a good core stable though really, so if I wanted to rebrand I would still keep them together. A younger Junior would be a sensible addition, and a new heavyweight tag team as well.
|
|
|
Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Oct 15, 2022 20:49:02 GMT -5
This is it right here. The answer to what people see in Jay White is right here. "Wrestler who works a heavily counter-based offense where he just nopes the hell out of top dudes' shit and turns it around into something to slap them down with" sounds like a character idea someone came up with playing Day of Reckoning. Like someone's funny cool gimmick idea they get week four of wrestling school and everyone rolls their eyes over it because no you're a newbie nobody is putting you out like that shut up. But Jay White's really done it, and he's made it awesome. New Japan is even the perfect match style to run that kind of act in. It's great. His wrestling is super underrated. Like, idk why people still hold the Tanahashi WK match against him when Tana was supposed to make him but was obviously working hurt. Once you saw what he can do the next night vs Omega, you knew the hype was real with him being the best prospect since Okada. It is really hard to wrestle his style and still keep the matches at a consistent pace while telling a story and he has perfected it. It is a gimmick and style that really shouldn't work but it does and it is amazing to see I've always liked him in ring, but what's impressed me is that he's just consistently gotten better. Yeah his match was Tanahashi wasn't great, but that's what happens when you have a fairly green wrestler in with a guy whose knees were basically non-functional at the time. He then had an epic with Kenny, a classic with Juice, and two high level bouts with Okada and Tanahashi. In 2019 he REALLY came into his own, an awesome match with Okada in Tokyo Dome, a much improved match with Tanahashi to win the IWGP title, a war with Ospreay at the Anniversary show, a classic with Okada in MSG, which he followed that summe with a career best performance against Ibushi in the G1 finals. Let's not forget his all time great Tokyo Dome main event with Ibushi either. The man has shown he can be the best in the world. AND HE'S ONLY 30! Literally just turned 30 last week. He's going to get better, and his style gives him little risk of injury. He'll be able to wrestle at this level for the foreseeable future, and I'm loving it.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 15, 2022 20:58:57 GMT -5
His wrestling is super underrated. Like, idk why people still hold the Tanahashi WK match against him when Tana was supposed to make him but was obviously working hurt. Once you saw what he can do the next night vs Omega, you knew the hype was real with him being the best prospect since Okada. It is really hard to wrestle his style and still keep the matches at a consistent pace while telling a story and he has perfected it. It is a gimmick and style that really shouldn't work but it does and it is amazing to see I've always liked him in ring, but what's impressed me is that he's just consistently gotten better. Yeah his match was Tanahashi wasn't great, but that's what happens when you have a fairly green wrestler in with a guy whose knees were basically non-functional at the time. He then had an epic with Kenny, a classic with Juice, and two high level bouts with Okada and Tanahashi. In 2019 he REALLY came into his own, an awesome match with Okada in Tokyo Dome, a much improved match with Tanahashi to win the IWGP title, a war with Ospreay at the Anniversary show, a classic with Okada in MSG, which he followed that summe with a career best performance against Ibushi in the G1 finals. Let's not forget his all time great Tokyo Dome main event with Ibushi either. The man has shown he can be the best in the world. AND HE'S ONLY 30! Literally just turned 30 last week. He's going to get better, and his style gives him little risk of injury. He'll be able to wrestle at this level for the foreseeable future, and I'm loving it. It is why he was considered the biggest prospect since Okada and he has delivered. He's matched up well against basically everyone they have put him against and even when forced to come out of his style and do more strong style work he can do it The only major question on him is if whenever his contract comes up if NJPW can actually keep him. Pretty sure AEW and WWE is going to throw big money at him. Tho all things considered I wouldn't be surprised if Jay stayed since him and NJPW seem to have a good relationship but it all depends on what he wants. Unlike Ospreay and Kenny I don't think he has attempted to learn Japanese or try to get a residence out there
|
|
|
Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Oct 15, 2022 21:10:33 GMT -5
I've always liked him in ring, but what's impressed me is that he's just consistently gotten better. Yeah his match was Tanahashi wasn't great, but that's what happens when you have a fairly green wrestler in with a guy whose knees were basically non-functional at the time. He then had an epic with Kenny, a classic with Juice, and two high level bouts with Okada and Tanahashi. In 2019 he REALLY came into his own, an awesome match with Okada in Tokyo Dome, a much improved match with Tanahashi to win the IWGP title, a war with Ospreay at the Anniversary show, a classic with Okada in MSG, which he followed that summe with a career best performance against Ibushi in the G1 finals. Let's not forget his all time great Tokyo Dome main event with Ibushi either. The man has shown he can be the best in the world. AND HE'S ONLY 30! Literally just turned 30 last week. He's going to get better, and his style gives him little risk of injury. He'll be able to wrestle at this level for the foreseeable future, and I'm loving it. It is why he was considered the biggest prospect since Okada and he has delivered. He's matched up well against basically everyone they have put him against and even when forced to come out of his style and do more strong style work he can do it The only major question on him is if whenever his contract comes up if NJPW can actually keep him. Pretty sure AEW and WWE is going to throw big money at him. Tho all things considered I wouldn't be surprised if Jay stayed since him and NJPW seem to have a good relationship but it all depends on what he wants. Unlike Ospreay and Kenny I don't think he has attempted to learn Japanese or try to get a residence out there When he went on excursion he said his goodye in Japanese, so he at least has a functional knowledge of the language. It might just be part of him being a heel.
|
|
Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,038
|
Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Oct 16, 2022 5:24:01 GMT -5
I hate the junior title 4-way match with a passion.
You couldn’t have built something else there? Not to mention the BOSJ winner isn’t even going to get a one-on-one match with the champion.
No wonder Hiromu is trying to get a Junior Heavyweight supercard off the ground. The junior scene in Japan is dire right now.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2022 5:43:53 GMT -5
I hate the junior title 4-way match with a passion. You couldn’t have built something else there? Not to mention the BOSJ winner isn’t even going to get a one-on-one match with the champion. No wonder Hiromu is trying to get a Junior Heavyweight supercard off the ground. The junior scene in Japan is dire right now. It's insane when you look at the talent I that division, a legit pair of 1a and 1b aces in Hiromu and Despy, Ishimori being so good and the division still feels fast and tired.
|
|
Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,038
|
Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Oct 16, 2022 8:11:18 GMT -5
I hate the junior title 4-way match with a passion. You couldn’t have built something else there? Not to mention the BOSJ winner isn’t even going to get a one-on-one match with the champion. No wonder Hiromu is trying to get a Junior Heavyweight supercard off the ground. The junior scene in Japan is dire right now. It's insane when you look at the talent I that division, a legit pair of 1a and 1b aces in Hiromu and Despy, Ishimori being so good and the division still feels fast and tired. If you wanted a four way, you should put some new names in there. I don’t think people would complain about El Lindamen or Alex Zayne being in it?
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,123
|
Post by Mozenrath on Oct 16, 2022 8:52:47 GMT -5
It's insane when you look at the talent I that division, a legit pair of 1a and 1b aces in Hiromu and Despy, Ishimori being so good and the division still feels fast and tired. If you wanted a four way, you should put some new names in there. I don’t think people would complain about El Lindamen or Alex Zayne being in it? Honestly, I'm glad at least Wato's in it, though I imagine he's probably not winning it. Alex Zayne would have been great if they could have swung it, since then you'd also have the open question of if Ishimori was going to be pissed about it. They already seemed to be building tension with him and ELP before they just moved him to heavyweight unceremoniously.
|
|
|
Post by ANuclearError on Oct 16, 2022 9:42:27 GMT -5
I see this being an inevitable trade-off of Wrestle Kingdom going back to a single night (which I absolutely support). This feels like a "get as many people on the main card" decision.
Hope we get a Rumble at least pre-show, make it so the winner gets a TV title shot at New Year's Dash.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 16, 2022 11:03:19 GMT -5
I hate the junior title 4-way match with a passion. You couldn’t have built something else there? Not to mention the BOSJ winner isn’t even going to get a one-on-one match with the champion. No wonder Hiromu is trying to get a Junior Heavyweight supercard off the ground. The junior scene in Japan is dire right now. Hiromu shouldn't even be a Junior anymore Either him or KUSHIDA or preferably both should mixing it up for the NEVER title and being more at HW
|
|
Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,038
|
Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Oct 16, 2022 11:06:27 GMT -5
I hate the junior title 4-way match with a passion. You couldn’t have built something else there? Not to mention the BOSJ winner isn’t even going to get a one-on-one match with the champion. No wonder Hiromu is trying to get a Junior Heavyweight supercard off the ground. The junior scene in Japan is dire right now. Hiromu shouldn't even be a Junior anymore Either him or KUSHIDA or preferably both should mixing it up for the NEVER title and being more at HW KUSHIDA needs a complete overhaul. Both in weight class and presentation.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 16, 2022 11:15:25 GMT -5
Hiromu shouldn't even be a Junior anymore Either him or KUSHIDA or preferably both should mixing it up for the NEVER title and being more at HW KUSHIDA needs a complete overhaul. Both in weight class and presentation. KUSHIDA sort of had the same luck KENTA did in WWE where injuries sort of messed him up as I really believe HHH was ready to make him his new Rey Mysterio as far as the fighting giants wrestler. He may have never won a World but he would been a midcard champ. Once HHH got sick and on top of injuries you can see HBK didn't know what to do with him With that said, I liked the aggressive approach they gave him when he was wearing the Jeans and boots. That is how I have wanted him to be for a long time. I thought he could fit as a member of Suzuki-Gun before he left NJPW or if you still want to keep him solo there is no reason why he shouldn't have the same crazy tendencies Ibushi has. KUSHIDA should be wrecking people and he's fit like a glove in the NEVER division
|
|
chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,914
Member is Online
|
Post by chrom on Nov 5, 2022 4:25:03 GMT -5
Ren Narita vs Zack Sabre Jr will decide the inaugural TV Champion
|
|
chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,914
Member is Online
|
Post by chrom on Nov 5, 2022 4:44:13 GMT -5
Either Narita will win his first Championship or Sabre will get his first singles title.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,123
|
Post by Mozenrath on Nov 5, 2022 4:48:35 GMT -5
I am stoked with either result, honestly.
|
|
chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,914
Member is Online
|
Post by chrom on Nov 5, 2022 5:54:42 GMT -5
After retaining today, FTR will defend against The World Tag League winners.
|
|