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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Jan 1, 2023 22:05:00 GMT -5
When WWE acknowledges the broader sphere of wrestling, it almost always starts at either Wrestlemania 1 or the MTV Special 'The Brawl to End It All'. While WWE has never really acknowledged the history of their competitors, it also barely acknowledges its own history pre 1984. The first wrestling event run by a McMahon happened in 1915 and that was pretty much the foundation of what the WWE became.
In North American sports/media, the only forms of entertainment that exist that far back is either network news or a handful of sports teams. This pre-dates the NBA by like 40 years.
Like look at Bob Backlund. He's more remembered for his 3 day WWE title run in 1994 than his 4 year run in the late 70's. I don't think the WWE has ever shown a highlight of any of Bob's matches (minus the one where he lost the title to Sheik) from that entire run
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jan 1, 2023 23:55:22 GMT -5
I think it's mainly because it was different bygone style back then and not the company being ashamed from its history. There isn't a lot of big video moments with signature commentary lines from that era that would feel at play in a video package. Sure they're are exceptions, but Backlund beating Spiros Arion at a random MSG show doesn't really add to the highlight reels of the pageantry of later times.
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wildojinx
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Post by wildojinx on Jan 2, 2023 1:54:10 GMT -5
The History of the World Heavyweight Championship dvd from 2009 basically went back to the days of Frank Gotch.
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Post by jimmyjames on Jan 2, 2023 7:43:05 GMT -5
I don't think it's a deliberate thing but mostly a case of the lack of footage to show. Because of the cost of tape and the cost of storage a lot of television recordings were destroyed or taped over, especially sporting events. Also a lot of the shows might not have even been in the promotions hands but instead the television channel a wrestling show aired on. Even with all the acquisitions the WWF/E has made they probably only own a small percentage of filmed shows.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jan 2, 2023 8:13:45 GMT -5
There's also the fact that the key stars of the pre-Hulkamania era, Morales, Sammartino, Andre, Graham depending what day of the week it was, were either on the outs with the company or unable to appear for a long time, so it couldn't build to anything really. If WWE, who controlled the narrative, couldn't use figures from their own history, they weren't going to use figures from their competitors history.
As said, there was so much less flash to matches and storylines there, it's just less marketable. It's cool for the hardcore fans and historians, but you're not going to be able to sell that product as more than curios sadly.
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Post by jason1980s on Jan 2, 2023 10:47:34 GMT -5
I personally didn't enjoy the 1970s style but I appreciate the wrestlers and other WWWF employees and what they did to help WWWF gain prominence. Unless I'm mistaken WWWF was the major promotion back then too, not just in the 80s when Vince K bet it all on Wrestlemania...
Lots of wrestling fans today of a younger age don't know the 1970s era guys but these were the guys that Vince K knew helped his father build the promotion to a big level. A majority of stars were inducted into the first three full classes (94-96) of the hall of fame and deserve it. A few were brought on in the 80s as long term employees, a few were signed to life time contracts and a few would get called back time after time for appearances or new gimmicks, storylines.
I think in a post Montreal or era and even shortly before, everything changed in Vince K and it showed. There was no hall of fame in 97 and no hall of fame until 2004 when nostalgia became more of a big thing. At one time Vince seemed to care a lot about the 1970s legends but as seen with letting go a decades long employee like Gerald Brisco, he doesn't seem to have the same care for them.
Another reason why we don't hear much about the 1970s guys is because so many have passed away. It's hard to do or even want to do a documentary when the principle subjects are no longer around. Everyone from the 94 and 95 classes are dead except Ivan Putski and I believe he may be in poor health. Johnny Rodz and Jimmy Valiant are the only ones alive from 96. Johnny is in his mid to late 80s, not sure if he still is involved with his gym and Jimmy is pretty much based out of the Carolina, Virginia, Tennessee area at this time. Johnny Valiant was brought back for a Royal Rumble guest appearance in 2000 but got a Grandmaster Sexay reaction sadly. Freddie Blassie was used here and there and James Dudley had one appearance in the early 2000s. But with so many guys passing, it's probably hard to keep that legacy alive on TV and in documentaries.
I personally would like to see a documentary on the early days of the hall of fame, from Vince's perspective or maybe Stephanie's. It will never be done obviously but would be awesome to hear heartfelt stories about Vince's love for guys like Andre, Blassie, James Dudley and others.
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tirtefaa
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Post by tirtefaa on Jan 2, 2023 11:21:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean while there were a few bright spots here and there, the WWWF was very rough pre 1985. A lot of sluggish brawling and bland personalities compared to almost every other territory. It's actually amazing that they turned it around, considering everything from the presentation of the product, the bland roster, to the storylines were just not very good.
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Post by BorneAgain on Jan 2, 2023 11:37:15 GMT -5
Given how much the company parrots the line about Vince Jr elevating wrestling out of smoky halls/bars and into big arenas to this day, focusing on an era which in many ways disproves that with stuff like Sammartino/Zbyszko at Shea Stadium likely isn't going to be in their plans.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Jan 2, 2023 17:18:58 GMT -5
Given how much the company parrots the line about Vince Jr elevating wrestling out of smoky halls/bars and into big arenas to this day, focusing on an era which in many ways disproves that with stuff like Sammartino/Zbyszko at Shea Stadium likely isn't going to be in their plans. This is basically the reason. The McMahon legend is based to a large extent on bullshit and half truths, acknowledging the WWF as a massive, lucrative and powerful territory rather than a rinky dink regional territory that he took national, or that he wasn't the first to go on national TV, or that he didn't in fact single-handedly create wrestling and Hulk Hogan in 1984, would sort of ruin all of that.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jan 2, 2023 17:43:29 GMT -5
I'm far from a WWE defender but how would people like them to acknowledge 1963-1984 in ways other than they already do? As for the Jess McMahon- Vince J naming Buddy Rodgers his champion in 63 era it's more complicated. Because the promotion that because WWE clearly existed in the 1950s, but because it was part of that NWA they act as if the McMahons just started promoting out of the blue in 1963.
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Post by Triangle Lancer on Jan 2, 2023 18:27:39 GMT -5
I started watching in 1984 because that's when expanding into Chicago started. Honestly, if you just go by weekly TV, it was a lot of trash. Squash matches, even when they got into TBS in July.
I started as a wrestling fan with World Class in 1983, and they were like 1998 Raw compared to the drek Vince gave us.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Jan 2, 2023 19:01:40 GMT -5
Given how much the company parrots the line about Vince Jr elevating wrestling out of smoky halls/bars and into big arenas to this day, focusing on an era which in many ways disproves that with stuff like Sammartino/Zbyszko at Shea Stadium likely isn't going to be in their plans. This is basically the reason. The McMahon legend is based to a large extent on bullshit and half truths, acknowledging the WWF as a massive, lucrative and powerful territory rather than a rinky dink regional territory that he took national, or that he wasn't the first to go on national TV, or that he didn't in fact single-handedly create wrestling and Hulk Hogan in 1984, would sort of ruin all of that. Yep. Vince is a lot like his buddy in that he wants to present himself as a self made man. Instead he was given one of the biggest and most successful territories and the one with the most potential to be taken national, being based in one of the media capitals of the world. To give Vince his due he did buy it under terms that were frankly ridiculous (if stories are true) and worked his ass off to make it happen. But he was starting from third as they say.
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Jan 2, 2023 19:30:52 GMT -5
It's a shame, really, as there is some good stuff in the late 70's. However, I'm a sucker for 1983. Even that seems so far removed from the Hulkamania era.
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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Jan 2, 2023 19:49:06 GMT -5
It's a shame, really, as there is some good stuff in the late 70's. However, I'm a sucker for 1983. Even that seems so far removed from the Hulkamania era. Most of Flair's 16 title wins are nowhere to be found on the network or the internet.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jan 2, 2023 20:31:16 GMT -5
It's a shame, really, as there is some good stuff in the late 70's. However, I'm a sucker for 1983. Even that seems so far removed from the Hulkamania era. Most of Flair's 16 title wins are nowhere to be found on the network or the internet. Because they happened on house tours that weren't taped.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 20:31:29 GMT -5
Vince Sr and Vince Jr are night and day when it comes to how they book.
Vince Sr, for better or worse, booked his top acts around ethnicity. Bruno was meant to appeal to Italian Americans, Backlund to German Americans, etc.
Vince Jr booked superheroes. And, as mentioned, Vince Jr has a narrative about how he "legitimized" pro wrestling, despite the fact that Bruno was selling out The Garden long before VKM even dreamed of buying the territory off VJM.
On top of that, let's be real... you ever watch an old WWWF match? I would rather watch 2022 NWA than 1979 WWWF, which is saying something. Bob Backlund may have been a great technical wrestler, but anyone who thinks the northern product won out based on the quality of its programming as opposed to being in a naturally more lucrative media market is lying to themselves.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 23:14:25 GMT -5
Wrestling started to most general audiences when Hulk Hogan beat the Iron Sheik.
There was stuff that happened before that or in other companies, but it feels like some black and white silent film before movies went went to color. That’s what Hogan and Vince McMahon did.
Wrestling is as its current form is only like 40 years old.
Which is why the Monday night wars were huge because it was stuff that was never done before, it went from 66 Batman to Michael Keaton or Christian Bale like less ten years. Both are huge hits for their own reasons but seeing the changes in real time was amazing.
That’s why the last twenty years have felt stale, redundant, or like Degressi: The Next Generation at times.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Jan 3, 2023 11:28:36 GMT -5
Wrestling started to most general audiences when Hulk Hogan beat the Iron Sheik. There was stuff that happened before that or in other companies, but it feels like some black and white silent film before movies went went to color. That’s what Hogan and Vince McMahon did. Wrestling is as its current form is only like 40 years old. Which is why the Monday night wars were huge because it was stuff that was never done before, it went from 66 Batman to Michael Keaton or Christian Bale like less ten years. Both are huge hits for their own reasons but seeing the changes in real time was amazing. That’s why the last twenty years have felt stale, redundant, or like Degressi: The Next Generation at times. So what you’re trying to say is Drake is getting signed to Smackdown to be the best part of the show?
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jan 3, 2023 14:43:27 GMT -5
I don't think it's a deliberate thing but mostly a case of the lack of footage to show. Because of the cost of tape and the cost of storage a lot of television recordings were destroyed or taped over, especially sporting events. Also a lot of the shows might not have even been in the promotions hands but instead the television channel a wrestling show aired on. Even with all the acquisitions the WWF/E has made they probably only own a small percentage of filmed shows. I've caught a few episodes of something called Classic All-Star Wrestling, and the footage they air is laughably unwatchable. Last time they showed Randy Savage/Lanny Poffo vs The Rock and Roll Express (I didn't catch the promotion name), and you wouldn't know who anyone was if commentary didn't identify them. (With the exception of Savage, who you could identify just from the way he moved) I'm sure WWE has access to better footage than some random cable show who can only air scraps that WWE doesn't own, but it does illustrate the problem.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Jan 3, 2023 18:56:15 GMT -5
Wrestling started to most general audiences when Hulk Hogan beat the Iron Sheik. There was stuff that happened before that or in other companies, but it feels like some black and white silent film before movies went went to color. That’s what Hogan and Vince McMahon did. Wrestling is as its current form is only like 40 years old. Which is why the Monday night wars were huge because it was stuff that was never done before, it went from 66 Batman to Michael Keaton or Christian Bale like less ten years. Both are huge hits for their own reasons but seeing the changes in real time was amazing. That’s why the last twenty years have felt stale, redundant, or like Degressi: The Next Generation at times. Woah woah woah, lay off Degrassi. It went there
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