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Post by eJm on May 24, 2023 7:28:15 GMT -5
I just took the latest WWE fan council survey and I'm not even sure how to feel about there being three options to this question How DARE they give me something new to spend the next few days being paranoid over? How DARE What a weird thing to ask about a match you just established for a tournament final. Is something going to happen on Smackdown to make it a triple threat or something?
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Post by ChitownKnight on May 24, 2023 8:12:02 GMT -5
I always feel like the wwe championship is always THE belt. When Ambrose won the shield triple threat and got drafted to Smackdown, the Universal title was still secondary. Even when they tried establishing the WHC and Universal titles as more important, it was always a notch below the wwe championship
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Post by polarbearpete on May 24, 2023 8:25:14 GMT -5
Triple H cited both Roman politicking to get limited dates in his contract and Roman cheating to win as the reasons he continued to hold the title, in that original promo about the new title. He also said at the same time that it was about the brands, as Roman would have his titles on his brand he’s drafted to, and then the other show would have its own title. It seems odd that HHH would acknowledge the cheating but do nothing about it. All he has to do is introduce a stipulation where Roman can lose the belt on a dq. Making a new belt in this context makes hhh seem like Flanders parents, "we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas man". Well yeah, that’s why that first promo about it was so messy. They could’ve just honed in on the brand/show aspect of why they were creating a new one.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 24, 2023 8:37:22 GMT -5
I always feel like the wwe championship is always THE belt. When Ambrose won the shield triple threat and got drafted to Smackdown, the Universal title was still secondary. Even when they tried establishing the WHC and Universal titles as more important, it was always a notch below the wwe championship They’ve certainly had times where the world title/universal title main evented Wrestlemania over the WWE title, at least. Which is kind of the ultimate in deciding what the company thinks of the title, I would think. Wrestlemania 20, 21, 24, 34 and 37.
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Post by ChitownKnight on May 24, 2023 8:51:52 GMT -5
I always feel like the wwe championship is always THE belt. When Ambrose won the shield triple threat and got drafted to Smackdown, the Universal title was still secondary. Even when they tried establishing the WHC and Universal titles as more important, it was always a notch below the wwe championship They’ve certainly had times where the world title/universal title main evented Wrestlemania over the WWE title, at least. Which is kind of the ultimate in deciding what the company thinks of the title, I would think. Wrestlemania 20, 21, 24, 34 and 37. True, but at the end of the day, the WHC became defunct; the wwe title has been around since the 60s. I Guess we will see what happens with the Universal title but I doubt they keep that over the wwe title lineage
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Post by Jindrak Mark on May 24, 2023 17:44:03 GMT -5
Triple H cited both Roman politicking to get limited dates in his contract and Roman cheating to win as the reasons he continued to hold the title, in that original promo about the new title. He also said at the same time that it was about the brands, as Roman would have his titles on his brand he’s drafted to, and then the other show would have its own title. It seems odd that HHH would acknowledge the cheating but do nothing about it. All he has to do is introduce a stipulation where Roman can lose the belt on a dq. If wrestling was real that would make sense to make things fair but heels would barely be able to be heels (other than like monsters who are capable of beating everyone clean anyway) if you actually punished them for cheating. Like irish whips and so much other stuff in wrestling, "why doesn't the babyface boss do anything about the cheating heel" is just something you have to suspend disbelief over because it doesn't make sense if you think about it too much. As played out as heel authority figures are, at least it makes sense when they let heels get away with everything. When you have a face/neutral figure it makes them look dumb if they do nothing. Right now you have almost the exact same situation in both companies with babyfaces HHH/Tony Khan bending over for top heels Roman/MJF, signing them to deals that say they rarely have to wrestle and can go months without defending their title and standing by and watching them cheat to win every PPV and doing nothing about it. Jack Tunney vacating the title and not allowing Andre/DiBiase to buy/sell it is one of the only big examples I can think of a face figure really stepping in and punishing heels. Although even then Hogan was completely screwed over. Why wasn't the original result completely null and void? In kayfabe Hogan should still have been champion and was screwed over by crooked referees.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,834
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Post by schma on May 24, 2023 20:47:47 GMT -5
It seems odd that HHH would acknowledge the cheating but do nothing about it. All he has to do is introduce a stipulation where Roman can lose the belt on a dq. If wrestling was real that would make sense to make things fair but heels would barely be able to be heels (other than like monsters who are capable of beating everyone clean anyway) if you actually punished them for cheating. Like irish whips and so much other stuff in wrestling, "why doesn't the babyface boss do anything about the cheating heel" is just something you have to suspend disbelief over because it doesn't make sense if you think about it too much. As played out as heel authority figures are, at least it makes sense when they let heels get away with everything. When you have a face/neutral figure it makes them look dumb if they do nothing. Right now you have almost the exact same situation in both companies with babyfaces HHH/Tony Khan bending over for top heels Roman/MJF, signing them to deals that say they rarely have to wrestle and can go months without defending their title and standing by and watching them cheat to win every PPV and doing nothing about it. Jack Tunney vacating the title and not allowing Andre/DiBiase to buy/sell it is one of the only big examples I can think of a face figure really stepping in and punishing heels. Although even then Hogan was completely screwed over. Why wasn't the original result completely null and void? In kayfabe Hogan should still have been champion and was screwed over by crooked referees. I'm all for suspension of disbelief in general. My point was that this isn't just the authority figure letting the heel be a heel. This is them creating an entirely new belt because of the heel. This would be like if Jack Tunney in response to Honky Tonk Man's reign created a new intercontinental belt. It just doesn't make sense. I can even see Triple H letting Roman get away with a lot of what he's done, because Triple H at his height was doing the same thing with Evolution. However, when you get to the point where you need a new belt? That's when it's time to take the kid gloves off.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,729
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Post by Nosnorb on May 24, 2023 21:05:48 GMT -5
I always feel like the wwe championship is always THE belt. When Ambrose won the shield triple threat and got drafted to Smackdown, the Universal title was still secondary. Even when they tried establishing the WHC and Universal titles as more important, it was always a notch below the wwe championship And then they put the title on that Juiced up Jabroni Jinder, who absolutely bottomed out the title.
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Post by Instant Classic on May 24, 2023 22:43:39 GMT -5
I always feel like the wwe championship is always THE belt. When Ambrose won the shield triple threat and got drafted to Smackdown, the Universal title was still secondary. Even when they tried establishing the WHC and Universal titles as more important, it was always a notch below the wwe championship the WHC was definitely more important in the moment between 2003-2005.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 24, 2023 23:06:33 GMT -5
If wrestling was real that would make sense to make things fair but heels would barely be able to be heels (other than like monsters who are capable of beating everyone clean anyway) if you actually punished them for cheating. Like irish whips and so much other stuff in wrestling, "why doesn't the babyface boss do anything about the cheating heel" is just something you have to suspend disbelief over because it doesn't make sense if you think about it too much. As played out as heel authority figures are, at least it makes sense when they let heels get away with everything. When you have a face/neutral figure it makes them look dumb if they do nothing. Right now you have almost the exact same situation in both companies with babyfaces HHH/Tony Khan bending over for top heels Roman/MJF, signing them to deals that say they rarely have to wrestle and can go months without defending their title and standing by and watching them cheat to win every PPV and doing nothing about it. Jack Tunney vacating the title and not allowing Andre/DiBiase to buy/sell it is one of the only big examples I can think of a face figure really stepping in and punishing heels. Although even then Hogan was completely screwed over. Why wasn't the original result completely null and void? In kayfabe Hogan should still have been champion and was screwed over by crooked referees. I'm all for suspension of disbelief in general. My point was that this isn't just the authority figure letting the heel be a heel. This is them creating an entirely new belt because of the heel. This would be like if Jack Tunney in response to Honky Tonk Man's reign created a new intercontinental belt. It just doesn't make sense. I can even see Triple H letting Roman get away with a lot of what he's done, because Triple H at his height was doing the same thing with Evolution. However, when you get to the point where you need a new belt? That's when it's time to take the kid gloves off. One of the reasons was the brand split and having a champion on each brand too, not just the cheating.
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Post by eJm on May 25, 2023 2:27:04 GMT -5
If wrestling was real that would make sense to make things fair but heels would barely be able to be heels (other than like monsters who are capable of beating everyone clean anyway) if you actually punished them for cheating. Like irish whips and so much other stuff in wrestling, "why doesn't the babyface boss do anything about the cheating heel" is just something you have to suspend disbelief over because it doesn't make sense if you think about it too much. As played out as heel authority figures are, at least it makes sense when they let heels get away with everything. When you have a face/neutral figure it makes them look dumb if they do nothing. Right now you have almost the exact same situation in both companies with babyfaces HHH/Tony Khan bending over for top heels Roman/MJF, signing them to deals that say they rarely have to wrestle and can go months without defending their title and standing by and watching them cheat to win every PPV and doing nothing about it. Jack Tunney vacating the title and not allowing Andre/DiBiase to buy/sell it is one of the only big examples I can think of a face figure really stepping in and punishing heels. Although even then Hogan was completely screwed over. Why wasn't the original result completely null and void? In kayfabe Hogan should still have been champion and was screwed over by crooked referees. I'm all for suspension of disbelief in general. My point was that this isn't just the authority figure letting the heel be a heel. This is them creating an entirely new belt because of the heel. This would be like if Jack Tunney in response to Honky Tonk Man's reign created a new intercontinental belt. It just doesn't make sense. I can even see Triple H letting Roman get away with a lot of what he's done, because Triple H at his height was doing the same thing with Evolution. However, when you get to the point where you need a new belt? That's when it's time to take the kid gloves off. Exactly, if you tell me HHH would respect someone using interference to win matches, sure, understandable. He’d let himself and the rest of management allow their star to leave for weeks and weeks at a time with no recourse and then make a new belt because nobody can overcome that interference? That’s terrible management. Say what you want about MJF not wrestling much but at least he’s forced to show up to work by his boss on a consistent basis.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 25, 2023 9:11:14 GMT -5
I'm all for suspension of disbelief in general. My point was that this isn't just the authority figure letting the heel be a heel. This is them creating an entirely new belt because of the heel. This would be like if Jack Tunney in response to Honky Tonk Man's reign created a new intercontinental belt. It just doesn't make sense. I can even see Triple H letting Roman get away with a lot of what he's done, because Triple H at his height was doing the same thing with Evolution. However, when you get to the point where you need a new belt? That's when it's time to take the kid gloves off. Exactly, if you tell me HHH would respect someone using interference to win matches, sure, understandable. He’d let himself and the rest of management allow their star to leave for weeks and weeks at a time with no recourse and then make a new belt because nobody can overcome that interference? That’s terrible management. Say what you want about MJF not wrestling much but at least he’s forced to show up to work by his boss on a consistent basis. The sparse appearances in kayfabe is due to Roman negotiating that into his contract with whatever higher ups handle that sort of thing. And the other piece of it that Triple H mentioned as a reason in kayfabe, was to have Roman and his title on one show and the newly created title on the other show.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,834
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Post by schma on May 25, 2023 9:37:08 GMT -5
Exactly, if you tell me HHH would respect someone using interference to win matches, sure, understandable. He’d let himself and the rest of management allow their star to leave for weeks and weeks at a time with no recourse and then make a new belt because nobody can overcome that interference? That’s terrible management. Say what you want about MJF not wrestling much but at least he’s forced to show up to work by his boss on a consistent basis. The sparse appearances in kayfabe is due to Roman negotiating that into his contract with whatever higher ups handle that sort of thing. And the other piece of it that Triple H mentioned as a reason in kayfabe, was to have Roman and his title on one show and the newly created title on the other show. The thing is, it makes sense to have a world title for each show. Where they lose us is how they're going about it. This is one of the dumbest ways to do it and they gave up a perfectly great way to do it at Mania.
If having a title on each show is so important and Roman refuses to be on Raw, they could just strip him of the WWE title since it's the Raw World Title and he is Smackdown exclusive. They've stripped people of titles for worse reasons but at least then Raw might have a world title worth more than a roll of toilet paper.
It would still be terrible though, because no one would actually get the rub of beating Roman.
This is what it boils down to. We have heard the kayfabe reasons for this belt and they make no sense even within an entity like WWE. They had so many opportunities to split the belts and threw them away. Now they're making a new belt because no one can beat Roman.
What makes it worse is they're acting like Roman is this unbeatable god, rather than a guy who has only held onto his belts because of interference and cheating. He's basically Honkey Tonk Man if Honkey Tonk Man had cronies.
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Post by Pooh Carlson on May 25, 2023 10:24:50 GMT -5
This is exactly the same reason the World Heavyweight Championship was created in the first place. The Undisputed WWE champion was Smackdown exclusive, so they made a new championship for Raw.
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Post by eJm on May 25, 2023 11:00:35 GMT -5
This is exactly the same reason the World Heavyweight Championship was created in the first place. The Undisputed WWE champion was Smackdown exclusive, so they made a new championship for Raw. But it still isn’t the undisputed title. The name might be otherwise but both belts are still their own belts on the website and the Universal title is the one with the record, not the WWE title. If the title was fully unified, you’d be completely right but it isn’t yet. That’s the issue.
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Post by eJm on May 25, 2023 11:03:23 GMT -5
The sparse appearances in kayfabe is due to Roman negotiating that into his contract with whatever higher ups handle that sort of thing. And the other piece of it that Triple H mentioned as a reason in kayfabe, was to have Roman and his title on one show and the newly created title on the other show. The thing is, it makes sense to have a world title for each show. Where they lose us is how they're going about it. This is one of the dumbest ways to do it and they gave up a perfectly great way to do it at Mania. If having a title on each show is so important and Roman refuses to be on Raw, they could just strip him of the WWE title since it's the Raw World Title and he is Smackdown exclusive. They've stripped people of titles for worse reasons but at least then Raw might have a world title worth more than a roll of toilet paper. It would still be terrible though, because no one would actually get the rub of beating Roman. This is what it boils down to. We have heard the kayfabe reasons for this belt and they make no sense even within an entity like WWE. They had so many opportunities to split the belts and threw them away. Now they're making a new belt because no one can beat Roman. What makes it worse is they're acting like Roman is this unbeatable god, rather than a guy who has only held onto his belts because of interference and cheating. He's basically Honkey Tonk Man if Honkey Tonk Man had cronies.
Exactly, he still has the WWE title. If you’re telling me in kayfabe they were so incompetent that it was negotiated without much recourse, not even enough to strip him of the title without the record so there isn’t three world titles going around, then everyone involved who isn’t Roman and Heyman are incompetent goobers, just like the people fighting for the new title.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 25, 2023 11:21:07 GMT -5
This is exactly the same reason the World Heavyweight Championship was created in the first place. The Undisputed WWE champion was Smackdown exclusive, so they made a new championship for Raw. But it still isn’t the undisputed title. The name might be otherwise but both belts are still their own belts on the website and the Universal title is the one with the record, not the WWE title. If the title was fully unified, you’d be completely right but it isn’t yet. That’s the issue. It will be fully unified when Roman loses because of the Universal having the 1000 day reign attached to it and being the lineage that will disappear. Also, they very recently changed the roster page to only have one picture of Roman at the top as the undisputed WWE universal champion, whereas he used to be listed twice there as each champion. It’s clear the titles will be merged when possible.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on May 27, 2023 14:51:01 GMT -5
well, you know what comes next. {Spoiler}
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schizo
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,544
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Post by schizo on May 27, 2023 15:18:07 GMT -5
It’s a beautiful looking title that’s for sure
Glad Seth won
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,294
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Post by Fade on May 27, 2023 16:27:56 GMT -5
It’s a beautiful looking title that’s for sure Glad Seth won Yeah, it’s a beautiful belt. Wish it was just a tad bigger but still a beauty.
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