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Post by Cyno on Jun 25, 2023 14:11:19 GMT -5
This is an instance where comics, and superhero comics specifically, mirror the history of professional wrestling over the past 40-plus years. Both industries maintained a healthy balance of popularity and quality throughout the 1980s, hotshotted a lot of stuff creatively and financially in the 1990s to reach the highest highs of their industries in the 1990s, crashed and burned in a big way in the late 1990s and early 2000s, and now does numbers that are decent but nowhere near their peak while catering to a niche, genre-savvy, and, most importantly, aging audience, and newer audiences are hard to come by despite financial successes in other revenue streams. Remember when people thought that WWE might go network only? And how that would be terrible as it would severely limit their ability to ever attract a new audience. That is what comics did. They chased the guaranteed direct market money over the less profitable newsstand market. And now their once gigantic and varied audience is mostly 40 and older men. Who are often hostile and condescending to anyone new intruding in their safe space. And nerd spaces, especially comic nerd spaces, have always had a certain gatekeeping reputation. Like it's a lazy joke these days, but the whole "Nerds freak out when a conventionally attractive woman enters the comic book store" stereotype has basis in reality.
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jun 25, 2023 14:39:04 GMT -5
I guess I got lucky in that I mostly follow creators. The few characters I must get every appearance of either have had just one crreator/creative team working on it all the run,or in the rare case had a few but not many.
Like I know with say Megaton Man I will get Don Simpsom.With Wendy Whitebread I will get Anton Drek. Flaming Carrot is Bob Burdun. Usagi is Stan Sakai.
Really the only character I follow hardcore that changed creative teams a bunch is the Tick.
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jun 25, 2023 14:50:25 GMT -5
Remember when people thought that WWE might go network only? And how that would be terrible as it would severely limit their ability to ever attract a new audience. That is what comics did. They chased the guaranteed direct market money over the less profitable newsstand market. And now their once gigantic and varied audience is mostly 40 and older men. Who are often hostile and condescending to anyone new intruding in their safe space. And nerd spaces, especially comic nerd spaces, have always had a certain gatekeeping reputation. Like it's a lazy joke these days, but the whole "Nerds freak out when a conventionally attractive woman enters the comic book store" stereotype has basis in reality.
That is why the former Lynn's Comics in Nederland Texas was the best comic shop ever. Opened in early 90s. And cause it was ran by a father,his wife and her two daughters it wasn't your normal shop. No cheesecake art of female heroes on the walls. Was a great kid and female friendly shop. Too bad the owner sold it in the early 2000s. Sold it to 4 customers and over the years it has went downhill. The store my girlfriend goes too is liek Lynns. But again it is a father wife and 2 daughters running it. I have noticed as more and more comic shops start carrying games and collectibles they have changed. No more walking in and 8 fat pasty dudes in the back stareing at ya. No more having to hold your breathe as one of hte customers walks by in the same Star Fleet Uniform they have had on since the con 4 months ago. |
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Post by Feyrhausen on Jun 25, 2023 15:19:50 GMT -5
And nerd spaces, especially comic nerd spaces, have always had a certain gatekeeping reputation. Like it's a lazy joke these days, but the whole "Nerds freak out when a conventionally attractive woman enters the comic book store" stereotype has basis in reality.
That is why the former Lynn's Comics in Nederland Texas was the best comic shop ever. Opened in early 90s. And cause it was ran by a father,his wife and her two daughters it wasn't your normal shop. No cheesecake art of female heroes on the walls. Was a great kid and female friendly shop. Too bad the owner sold it in the early 2000s. Sold it to 4 customers and over the years it has went downhill. The store my girlfriend goes too is liek Lynns. But again it is a father wife and 2 daughters running it. I have noticed as more and more comic shops start carrying games and collectibles they have changed. No more walking in and 8 fat pasty dudes in the back stareing at ya. No more having to hold your breathe as one of hte customers walks by in the same Star Fleet Uniform they have had on since the con 4 months ago. Here in Baton Rouge we have a shop that is pretty decent. My wife likes lots of non superhero and they keep a decent amount in stock, have a good familiarity with it, and are good about making recommendations on stuff. Sometimes the other customers can be annoying but what can you do. They had one new employee who was a complete stereotype but he either didnt last or he never works when we go. |
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jun 25, 2023 15:48:00 GMT -5
And nerd spaces, especially comic nerd spaces, have always had a certain gatekeeping reputation. Like it's a lazy joke these days, but the whole "Nerds freak out when a conventionally attractive woman enters the comic book store" stereotype has basis in reality.
That is why the former Lynn's Comics in Nederland Texas was the best comic shop ever. Opened in early 90s. And cause it was ran by a father,his wife and her two daughters it wasn't your normal shop. No cheesecake art of female heroes on the walls. Was a great kid and female friendly shop. Too bad the owner sold it in the early 2000s. Sold it to 4 customers and over the years it has went downhill. The store my girlfriend goes too is liek Lynns. But again it is a father wife and 2 daughters running it. I have noticed as more and more comic shops start carrying games and collectibles they have changed. No more walking in and 8 fat pasty dudes in the back stareing at ya. No more having to hold your breathe as one of hte customers walks by in the same Star Fleet Uniform they have had on since the con 4 months ago. Sounds a lot like my local. They pivoted to selling both comics and retro video games and you never see any of the crazy stereotypes showing up. If they do, they keep their mouths shut, buy their funny books and leave. |
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jun 25, 2023 17:16:32 GMT -5
That is why the former Lynn's Comics in Nederland Texas was the best comic shop ever. Opened in early 90s. And cause it was ran by a father,his wife and her two daughters it wasn't your normal shop. No cheesecake art of female heroes on the walls. Was a great kid and female friendly shop. Too bad the owner sold it in the early 2000s. Sold it to 4 customers and over the years it has went downhill. The store my girlfriend goes too is liek Lynns. But again it is a father wife and 2 daughters running it. I have noticed as more and more comic shops start carrying games and collectibles they have changed. No more walking in and 8 fat pasty dudes in the back stareing at ya. No more having to hold your breathe as one of hte customers walks by in the same Star Fleet Uniform they have had on since the con 4 months ago. Sounds a lot like my local. They pivoted to selling both comics and retro video games and you never see any of the crazy stereotypes showing up. If they do, they keep their mouths shut, buy their funny books and leave. My local shop totally got out of new comics. But the years it was dealing with them most of the comics customers were guys my age,mid to late 40s. Who came in grabbed their stuff off the pull list,looked at any new wall books and left. It is totally a gaming store now. They got whatever wall books and tpbs are still left from it's comic shop days. And the new owner told me he wants to keep 4 or 5 longboxes stocked with dollar books. Been meaning to bring him up a longbox of stuff for the dollar bins. |
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schma
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Post by schma on Jun 25, 2023 18:13:37 GMT -5
My comic store is brightly lit and pretty much the antithesis of the stereotypical comic store. It does have games, minis, collectibles, magic cards, etc. The owner and manager are both women and they specifically made a decision to make the store welcoming to everyone. Hence the bright lighting, they have events for kids and for adults. They stock a large variety of stuff. I've always found the clientele to be pretty varied when I was there. Most of the workers are students in high school or university and they're all quite friendly.
It's funny because that shaped my idea of what a comic store was (I grew up in a small town, so I was in university before I ever entered a comic store). I've seen some that are more stereotypical but for me those are outliers nowadays. I feel like that's a good thing.
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jun 25, 2023 19:29:39 GMT -5
Let me count,since I started going to comic shops at least once a month(so 39 years or so now)
Had a total of 10 LCS that I used.
The best ,besides Lynns,was the now closed Comic Commander in Richland MS. Small store but the owner wanted it to stay a comic store. Not a CCG and collectibles store. Got so much great stuff from the place. Very very friendly and nice store.
The worst? Tie
Diversions Comics in Biloxi MS,closed after katrina hit in 2005. I worked there part time during high school. This was the start of the comic boom. Watched the owner do so many shady and just illegal things to make a profit.
Example,she ordered all her stuff from the Capital City Distributors. Which meant instead of Previews we had Advance catalog in the store. WHihc each month every copy of the catalog came with preview and sample cards and mini comix for stuff coming on in a few months.
When that first Valiant Era trading card set from Upper Deck was about to come out Advance had a promo card in each catalog. Was Turok and XO Manowar. Boss lady had just gotten a machine to reseal plastic bags and reshrink wrap stuff... She went opened every copy of the catalog we got in,pulled out hte Valiant Era Promo card. Then resealed the bags.
Anyone that asked was told "No clue why they aren't in there." And 2 weeeks later she has the promo cards in the case for 5 bucks each.
That was just one of her minor shady things I saw. The main reason the store stayed open was it was with in walking distance of the near by air force base. Lots of the customers was air force guys who by the time figured out how shady she was were getting shipped to another base.
The other one...... Sincere Comics. Had two locations. One 20 minutes from me in Mobile AL. ANother in Pensacola. The mobile one sucked for years until the owner opened the other store and started staying at the other store. Before that I saw.
Him make fun of a 12 years old's comic selection so bad the kid was crying,
HIm sell issue 4 of Faust to a kid I doubt was over 12.
Once he left the store became great. The new dude running it was this old hippie dude. Looked like Tom Yeates.
Last I heard David the owner got in trouble with the IRS right when the comic boom of the 90s died. And even the Magic the gathering and POG/Pokemon boom didnt make him enough to prevent the stores from closing.
Years ago,almost 20 now,a lcs was being sold. Few buddies were going together to buy and run it. Asked me if I wanted to be part of this. Plan being I put in some cash and work like new comic day and one other evening a week. Get my comics at cost. That kind of stuff. I turned it down,mostly cause the money I would have had to thrown in was more needed to be put into someone college fund. Last I heard this store is still runniing. It moved locations. And is more of a gaming store that sells some comics now.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 25, 2023 20:46:17 GMT -5
My LCS has a very welcoming attitude and promote themselves as a safe space for LGBTQ+ people, too. In addition to the usual customers, you'll see parents bring their kids. They have a good mix of new comics, TPB's, back issues, toys, as well as a decent selection of manga.
Funny thing is one of the examples I can use as a local comic shop (roughly 15-30 minutes away, depending on traffic) is the Secret Stash, Kevin Smith's shop.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Jun 26, 2023 1:22:50 GMT -5
This is an instance where comics, and superhero comics specifically, mirror the history of professional wrestling over the past 40-plus years. Both industries maintained a healthy balance of popularity and quality throughout the 1980s, hotshotted a lot of stuff creatively and financially in the 1990s to reach the highest highs of their industries in the 1990s, crashed and burned in a big way in the late 1990s and early 2000s, and now does numbers that are decent but nowhere near their peak while catering to a niche, genre-savvy, and, most importantly, aging audience, and newer audiences are hard to come by despite financial successes in other revenue streams. Remember when people thought that WWE might go network only? And how that would be terrible as it would severely limit their ability to ever attract a new audience. That is what comics did. They chased the guaranteed direct market money over the less profitable newsstand market. And now their once gigantic and varied audience is mostly 40 and older men. Who are often hostile and condescending to anyone new intruding in their safe space. I'd qualify the history that comics chased the DM over the NM only because the NM began to leave comics in the late 70s. The DM just so happened to be a very cozy life preserver at the time. No returnability on books sold to retailers? Cha-ching for comics companies. And companies also didn't want to lose a revenue stream, which is why it took another 20-30 years for comics in the NM to disappear completely. But what started as a life preserver, the DM, has become an albatross when it comes to actually getting comics, namely single-issue books, into people's hands. I also wonder how much of the post-Wertham comics landscape led to the NM wanting to move away from single-issue books. There's a 70-year what-if history had comics not been accused of "seducing the innocent." It's akin to the argument people make about manga: Japanese culture takes manga seriously as literature, which allows for so many genres to exist within the medium. Or maybe it's the reverse--so many manga genres being available has allowed people to take the medium seriously. But because of the effects of Wertham's analysis, that comics are meant only for kids, genres like horror went away, the superhero dominated the marketplace, and the push by companies, retailers, and consumers to solidify the DM as the place to get comics locked superhero books as the majority option in North America ever since. |
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jun 26, 2023 3:29:45 GMT -5
Another factor/theory on comics leaving newstands is profit ratio vs how much space they take up on the shelves. By 92 average Marvel or DC book was what $1 or maybe 1.50. Same space on mag rack or whatever could have People that sold for 2 or 2.50.
Higher profit margin and by the start of the 90s comic boom more demand for non comics in places liek drug stores,grocery stores,gas stations.
Over the course of 10 years or so I watched comics slowly disappear from most places that were not Book stores or Comic shops. Was odd. As a kid and a teen until I could drive I got comics from grocery stores like Food World and Delchamps. Drug Stores like K&B Drugs and Rite Aid.
Even odder is over the last 20 years I have seen at least 6 times attempts to bring comics back to major retail stores and they failed. Only comics that seem to be still at least a bit all over is manga. In this tiny rural town I know of two retail stores with always a few volumes laying around the never visted book section.
Still baffled the DC 100 page giants failed. 100 pages of comics for 5 bucks. With what I think 20 or 30 pages every issue being brand new stuff. And the rest being reprints. Thanks to this line a Richard Corben story from DC got all over the place. Not that anyone bought Our Fighting Forces 100 Page Giant.
If anyone knows how did the DC 100 Page Giant line do in comic shops. I Know they were offered to shops. But the one in town never got them. And the one she goes too never had them.
I think the Direct market versions had different covers.
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jun 26, 2023 3:37:12 GMT -5
Remember when people thought that WWE might go network only? And how that would be terrible as it would severely limit their ability to ever attract a new audience. That is what comics did. They chased the guaranteed direct market money over the less profitable newsstand market. And now their once gigantic and varied audience is mostly 40 and older men. Who are often hostile and condescending to anyone new intruding in their safe space. But because of the effects of Wertham's analysis, that comics are meant only for kids, genres like horror went away, the superhero dominated the marketplace, and the push by companies, retailers, and consumers to solidify the DM as the place to get comics locked superhero books as the majority option in North America ever since. Horror took a long while to go away though. Once the code hit there was code approved horror. Which became DC and Atlas giant monster and ghost comics. House of Secrets,House of Mystery and a few others were out from DC in the 70s and till the early 80s. Marvel started up a few horror titles in the 70s ,Tomb of Dracula which was a hit,and their own horror anthology titles. Horror got toned down yes. Well got toned down on the newstand. You had underground and indie stuff that was as extreme as the pre code horror and far past that coming out in the 60s. But those weren't newstand. What I never really got was ok yea I get why they didn't have to get teh Comics Code stamp to hit newstands and other places like that. But why was there never a big up roar in the late 60s thru the early 80s with some runs of Creepy,Vampirella,all the skywald stuff,those Eerie Publication mags that were redrawn pre code horror. All that stuff was on the same racks just a few spaces over from the comics I was grabbing as a kid. Many a times I was tempted to spent that big dollar for an issue of Creepy or Eerie. Sadly too many comic shops would order everything from DC and Marvel and then either no indie stuff or just copies for those that requested them on their pull list. None for the new release wall. That is one of the ways I can tell quickly if a comic shop is gonna have much I want to buy. Look at new release wall and see ratio of big 2 to the rest of the catalog. Yes I know that doesn;t wwork as well now that there is more than one distributer again. Also if a shop has cheap bins that arent just "Well someone left 9 longboxes of 90s Continunity,Youngblood and Zen the intergalactic ninja" bins. |
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Nr1Humanoid
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Jun 26, 2023 5:59:40 GMT -5
the way comics are written and laid out nowadays is inherently superior to how things were written back in the day. go ahead and read a lot of those classic golden and silver age comics. I guarantee you'll find everything to be clunky as hell, even the good stuff. the sheer amount of exposition alone made it feel like it was written for people with brain damage. might be a hot take on my part but yeah most of that stuff bores me to tears. That is also one of mine. Early X-Men in particular seemed to have 70 percent dialog bubbles pr panel. |
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jun 26, 2023 8:16:32 GMT -5
the way comics are written and laid out nowadays is inherently superior to how things were written back in the day. go ahead and read a lot of those classic golden and silver age comics. I guarantee you'll find everything to be clunky as hell, even the good stuff. the sheer amount of exposition alone made it feel like it was written for people with brain damage. might be a hot take on my part but yeah most of that stuff bores me to tears. That is also one of mine. Early X-Men in particular seemed to have 70 percent dialog bubbles pr panel. Yeah like... Sure it may take you like 30-45 minutes to read a single issue but are you really actually getting more content? It's mostly just padding by modern standards. Unless you're Alan Moore including like 10 pages of supplemental reading in each issue of Watchmen or Providence or whatever there's really nothing fulfilling about reading a comic that takes that long to say something that a modern writer would take half the time to say exactly the same. |
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