chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Jun 29, 2023 19:34:07 GMT -5
I like it, and I see it as more of an extension of ego-heel Jericho than something a la the Three Faces of Foley. Painmaker is (kayfabe) Jericho, not succumbing to his darkest desires, but wanting to appear as if he's succumbing to his darkest desires as an excuse to do the cruel shit he'd want to do to his opponents anyway. His opponents not treating him as different (As opposed to "Lionheart" Jericho who we've seen as him at his most focused on wrestling with a level of respect and honor to his matches and his opponents knowing this) and it being very much in the presentation only being surface level. He's (kayfabe) fully composed and in control, he just (kayfabe) has the paint he can use as an excuse for doing what he really wants to do without it (kayfabe) "tarnishing" his image. It's not supposed to be actually supernatual but (kayfabe) this heel Jericho wants his opponents to think it walks the line of him becoming fully unpredictable and deranged whereas (again, kayfabe) they know what's coming and can prepare.
It's not like Finn Balor's demon or The Fiend or even Muta or Kishin Liger. It's the (kayfabe) ego of the character wanting both to (kayfabe) protect his image and (kayfabe) strike his previous shortcomings from the record to insinuate that he was holding back as an ego-protecting (kayfabe) way to get a rematch.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,989
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Post by chazraps on Jun 29, 2023 19:37:10 GMT -5
Yes, I went to a David Lynch retrospective on Saturday and watched 'Lynch/Oz,' 'Mullholland Drive,' 'Wild At Heart' and 'Blue Velvet' back-to-back-to-back-to-back.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Jun 29, 2023 19:42:12 GMT -5
The Painmaker is dumb but I kinda love it because Jericho doesn't get that he looks like a dorky juggalo and instead thinks that he's a badass. As long as people go "yeah sure Chris whatever you say" when he threatens to bring out the Painmaker and don't sell it like Triple H sold Cactus Jack it's fine.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 29, 2023 19:49:42 GMT -5
It's corny as a gimmick, but it works for a "I'm going to be super violent in the ring tonight" thing. So I voted for downloading a clown.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,436
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Post by FinalGwen on Jun 29, 2023 19:51:07 GMT -5
I like it, and I see it as more of an extension of ego-heel Jericho than something a la the Three Faces of Foley. Painmaker is (kayfabe) Jericho, not succumbing to his darkest desires, but wanting to appear as if he's succumbing to his darkest desires as an excuse to do the cruel shit he'd want to do to his opponents anyway. His opponents not treating him as different (As opposed to "Lionheart" Jericho who we've seen as him at his most focused on wrestling with a level of respect and honor to his matches and his opponents knowing this) and it being very much in the presentation only being surface level. He's (kayfabe) fully composed and in control, he just (kayfabe) has the paint he can use as an excuse for doing what he really wants to do without it (kayfabe) "tarnishing" his image. It's not supposed to be actually supernatual but (kayfabe) this heel Jericho wants his opponents to think it walks the line of him becoming fully unpredictable and deranged whereas (again, kayfabe) they know what's coming and can prepare. It's not like Finn Balor's demon or The Fiend or even Muta or Kishin Liger. It's the (kayfabe) ego of the character wanting both to (kayfabe) protect his image and (kayfabe) strike his previous shortcomings from the record to insinuate that he was holding back as an ego-protecting (kayfabe) way to get a rematch. This is a fantastic take, and makes me enjoy it more.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 29, 2023 20:01:24 GMT -5
I like it, and I see it as more of an extension of ego-heel Jericho than something a la the Three Faces of Foley. Painmaker is (kayfabe) Jericho, not succumbing to his darkest desires, but wanting to appear as if he's succumbing to his darkest desires as an excuse to do the cruel shit he'd want to do to his opponents anyway. His opponents not treating him as different (As opposed to "Lionheart" Jericho who we've seen as him at his most focused on wrestling with a level of respect and honor to his matches and his opponents knowing this) and it being very much in the presentation only being surface level. He's (kayfabe) fully composed and in control, he just (kayfabe) has the paint he can use as an excuse for doing what he really wants to do without it (kayfabe) "tarnishing" his image. It's not supposed to be actually supernatual but (kayfabe) this heel Jericho wants his opponents to think it walks the line of him becoming fully unpredictable and deranged whereas (again, kayfabe) they know what's coming and can prepare. It's not like Finn Balor's demon or The Fiend or even Muta or Kishin Liger. It's the (kayfabe) ego of the character wanting both to (kayfabe) protect his image and (kayfabe) strike his previous shortcomings from the record to insinuate that he was holding back as an ego-protecting (kayfabe) way to get a rematch. That's a really interesting way of looking at it. I like it.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Jun 29, 2023 20:10:32 GMT -5
I like it, and I see it as more of an extension of ego-heel Jericho than something a la the Three Faces of Foley. Painmaker is (kayfabe) Jericho, not succumbing to his darkest desires, but wanting to appear as if he's succumbing to his darkest desires as an excuse to do the cruel shit he'd want to do to his opponents anyway. His opponents not treating him as different (As opposed to "Lionheart" Jericho who we've seen as him at his most focused on wrestling with a level of respect and honor to his matches and his opponents knowing this) and it being very much in the presentation only being surface level. He's (kayfabe) fully composed and in control, he just (kayfabe) has the paint he can use as an excuse for doing what he really wants to do without it (kayfabe) "tarnishing" his image. It's not supposed to be actually supernatual but (kayfabe) this heel Jericho wants his opponents to think it walks the line of him becoming fully unpredictable and deranged whereas (again, kayfabe) they know what's coming and can prepare. It's not like Finn Balor's demon or The Fiend or even Muta or Kishin Liger. It's the (kayfabe) ego of the character wanting both to (kayfabe) protect his image and (kayfabe) strike his previous shortcomings from the record to insinuate that he was holding back as an ego-protecting (kayfabe) way to get a rematch. That's a really interesting way of looking at it. I like it. And is literally 100 times more creative than what's actually gone into the gimmick itself, which is to get Excalibur to bark "it's like Muta" while we watch a 52 year-old dude in a fedora mug at hard cam.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Jun 29, 2023 20:22:46 GMT -5
No. It’s f***ing awful. The only thing I encourage people to do is listen to the Talk is Jericho episode where he goes through the “origins” of the Painmaker. It’s a Dexter ripoff that sounds like it could have been written by a third grader. It’s unintentionally hysterical.
Le Champion? Cool. The Ocho? Great. The Painmaker? Go the f*** away.
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by XIII on Jun 29, 2023 20:22:54 GMT -5
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jun 29, 2023 20:24:35 GMT -5
I don't even care about regular Jericho.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jun 29, 2023 20:35:18 GMT -5
In theory, it's fine. Never gonna be Cactus Jack, but it's fine. But that makeup just kills it with the 'I've just bought my first eyeliner and i will use so much of it' vibe. Chris, there are people on the roster that are really talented with makeup, they can help you. The lameness is part of the appeal. Like, even with a shit ton of eyeliner, lipstick, and long hair, Jericho can't make himself look feminine. NOR can he make himself look like a Metal Badass. It's great. It's the most "Yeah, I'm in my 50s, but I'm still a 16 year old Edgelord" thing ever. Mind you, I've had enough of Jericho to last a lifetime at this point, so the end result ends up being "I don't care one way or the other", but I like the concept of a heel being incredibly lame but thinking it's the coolest thing ever.
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Jun 29, 2023 20:41:39 GMT -5
Yes, I went to a David Lynch retrospective on Saturday and watched 'Lynch/Oz,' 'Mullholland Drive,' 'Wild At Heart' and 'Blue Velvet' back-to-back-to-back-to-back. That sounds AMAZING. My first David Lynch movie was Eraserhead that I saw when I was like 10 or 11 years old. Blew my little mind. Was a fan from that moment on.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Jun 29, 2023 21:07:35 GMT -5
In 2023 I prefer it over regular Jericho.
If he was self-aware about how silly it is I'd be disappointed because I find it hilarious from listening to him talk about it on his podcast over the years and how he genuinely thinks it's this great dark persona with a bunch of lore that's worthy of a movie and comic book series to explore its origins.
It's kinda like The Room. If Tony Wiseau was intentionally trying to be ridiculous the movie loses its charm. It's funny because he honestly didn't think it was terrible even if everyone around him did.
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on Jun 29, 2023 21:48:54 GMT -5
My only real problem with The Painmaker is that I can't tell if Jericho is self-aware about it or not.
Like, Jericho will do things that are obviously meant to make him look like a dork and kind of play into the "aging over-the-hill rockstar" thing he has going on. But then, he does stuff like the Painmaker, or trying to get dumb catchphrases like "GFY" or "Attendance is Mandatory" over, or saying stuff like "yeah boiii!" on commentary, and I can't tell if he is playing into the dorkiness or if he genuinely believes that what he's doing is cool.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
Grimlock
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Jun 29, 2023 21:52:23 GMT -5
Downloading gimmick infringement! Downloading gimmick infringement! Mark sterling where are you!!!
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Soultastic
El Dandy
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Posts: 7,865
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Post by Soultastic on Jun 29, 2023 22:01:56 GMT -5
At least he actually tries to hurt people, not like the f***ing stupid "I'll go for headlocks and school boys in a hell in a cell match" Demon Finn.
Sorry, I love Finn, but damn the demon sucks.
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Post by AwamoriRock on Jun 29, 2023 22:25:22 GMT -5
Naito making fun of it is one of the funniest things in wrestling lol
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Post by DSR on Jun 30, 2023 3:37:55 GMT -5
Drew like a dark, f***ed up version of Chris Jericho haha. Just a glimpse into my dark reality. A full stare into my twisted perspective would make most simply go insane lmao
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Post by stoptheclocks on Jun 30, 2023 4:01:16 GMT -5
My only real problem with The Painmaker is that I can't tell if Jericho is self-aware about it or not. Like, Jericho will do things that are obviously meant to make him look like a dork and kind of play into the "aging over-the-hill rockstar" thing he has going on. But then, he does stuff like the Painmaker, or trying to get dumb catchphrases like "GFY" or "Attendance is Mandatory" over, or saying stuff like "yeah boiii!" on commentary, and I can't tell if he is playing into the dorkiness or if he genuinely believes that what he's doing is cool. Jericho has perfected the art of doing lame things that he believes are cool, but giving himself just enough wriggle room to say 'well I'm a heel so if you think it's bad it's working'.
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clifford
King Koopa
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Post by clifford on Jun 30, 2023 4:47:54 GMT -5
I like it, and I see it as more of an extension of ego-heel Jericho than something a la the Three Faces of Foley. Painmaker is (kayfabe) Jericho, not succumbing to his darkest desires, but wanting to appear as if he's succumbing to his darkest desires as an excuse to do the cruel shit he'd want to do to his opponents anyway. His opponents not treating him as different (As opposed to "Lionheart" Jericho who we've seen as him at his most focused on wrestling with a level of respect and honor to his matches and his opponents knowing this) and it being very much in the presentation only being surface level. He's (kayfabe) fully composed and in control, he just (kayfabe) has the paint he can use as an excuse for doing what he really wants to do without it (kayfabe) "tarnishing" his image. It's not supposed to be actually supernatual but (kayfabe) this heel Jericho wants his opponents to think it walks the line of him becoming fully unpredictable and deranged whereas (again, kayfabe) they know what's coming and can prepare. It's not like Finn Balor's demon or The Fiend or even Muta or Kishin Liger. It's the (kayfabe) ego of the character wanting both to (kayfabe) protect his image and (kayfabe) strike his previous shortcomings from the record to insinuate that he was holding back as an ego-protecting (kayfabe) way to get a rematch. Oh man I love this take on the whole deal and its the only one that doesn't make me think its dumb/forced. Like, when Excalibur compared this persona to Great Muta and Kishin Liger you could hear the crunch of my eyes violently rolling back into my head from miles away.
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