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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 2, 2024 16:52:01 GMT -5
Gorilla Monsoon. Everyone rightfully talks about amazing Heenan is, but rewatching it, Gorilla is a perfect foil and the banter wouldn’t have been anywhere as engaging with a generic play-by-play guy.
When you listen to his tone as British Bulldog comes out at #1, you can tell he has no faith in Davey Boy winning, he’s all “this isn’t the 20 man battle royale, he’s got to get through 29 other guys this time”. He’s got no familiarity with Ric the way Bobby does, and as the match goes on he becomes slightly more impressed with Ric but still kinda teasing Bobby. “What conditioning by Flair, but I told you, no one at 1 through 5’s been there at the end!”
Gorilla is waiting patiently for the moment where he can tell Heenan “I told you, Brain!” And he’s still waiting, gradually more impressed. “I only questioned the man’s integrity, not his ability!” So then Ric chucks out Sid, and Heenan is losing his mind, but Monsoon is just *broken*. He can’t compute what he just watched. He goes “He did it, I don’t believe it!” And then he’s silent for a moment while Bobby is flipping out. He kinda wants to give the devil his due, but he’s also just completely dumbfounded. Even the way he talks about Hogan and Sid having beef (with Hogan being booed out the arena) sounds like he’s still bewildered about everything. Gorilla had a lot of little subtleties in his commentary that really got these stories across well.
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Post by eJm on Jan 2, 2024 16:55:01 GMT -5
Oh yeah, you could not ask for a better foil that night for Heenan's antics then Monsoon. Further shows just how good they both were together.
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Jan 2, 2024 18:24:00 GMT -5
In another post I detailed how Flair in kayfabe was an outsider in the eyes of the WWF elite and one that while he had credentials, they doubted his ability to be on their level.
By going an hour in the ring and winning, Flair broke the WWF because in one shot he went over former WWF Tag Team Champion British Bulldog, WM 4 runner up Ted DiBiase, former Tag Champ Jerry Saggs, former King of the Ring Haku, future Grand Slam Champion Shawn Michaels, former Intercontinental Champion Tito Santana, Intercontinental Champion Roddy Piper, former WWF Champion Undertaker, former WWF Champion Randy Savage, former WWF Champion Hulk Hogan, former WWF Champion Sgt. Slaughter and future WWF Champion Sid.
In fact Flair went over 5 out of the last 7 WWF Champions counting Col Mustafa
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,100
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Post by tafkaga on Jan 3, 2024 11:35:28 GMT -5
I've been watching a lot of older stuff from '84-'85 lately, and Gorilla is such an obnoxious know-it-all. It's not the way I remember Gorilla when I was growing up, and that's because his pairing with Heenan, and Ventura to a slightly lesser extent, brought the best out of him. He was almost insufferable when left to his own devices, but playing off Heenan and Ventura he was gold.
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Post by dangerousdanpotato on Jan 3, 2024 12:03:09 GMT -5
Worth keeping in mind that Gorilla and Bobby re-recorded their commentary for the end of the Rumble match so as the re-frame the Hogan/Sid incident.
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Jan 3, 2024 18:56:56 GMT -5
Worth keeping in mind that Gorilla and Bobby re-recorded their commentary for the end of the Rumble match so as the re-frame the Hogan/Sid incident. One of the first retcons in WWE. But a very unnecessary one. I get what the idea was, it was to do the usual Hogan betrayed angle but the logic behind it was that Sid was a bad guy for eliminating Hulk from behind but its one of those to someone older it may seem sneaky but to the younger and even adult audience trying to spin Sid as a Heel is weird. Now say...Hulk eliminated Sid and Sid did that to Hulk, then IMO Sid would have been the Heel. Its like they got it backwards. Hulk should have thrown Sid out and in a bitter rage, Sid costs Hogan by yanking him and having Flair lift him over the rope. At least then you can say that while Hulk eliminated Sid fairly and justly that Sid eliminated Hogan unfairly and unjustly. Maybe Sid can justify it by saying it was Justice for Hulk eliminating Sid, play up Sid as a hired gun who does what he wants and Hulk as the hero who has to get revenge. Instead Hulk looked weak in defeat. World War 3 had the same problem which makes me thing Hulk had twisted logic about it. |
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Post by Jumpin' Jesse Walsh on Jan 3, 2024 19:00:23 GMT -5
I thought this thread would be about The Berzerker  |
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,455 
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Jan 4, 2024 9:34:14 GMT -5
His low-key burial of Skinner is brutal.
Para-phrasing:
"29 guys, all with a shot at the gold, and...Skinner."
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Post by James Fabiano on Jan 4, 2024 10:01:28 GMT -5
No way, I love Groovy G too!
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Post by James Fabiano on Jan 4, 2024 10:17:11 GMT -5
Worth keeping in mind that Gorilla and Bobby re-recorded their commentary for the end of the Rumble match so as the re-frame the Hogan/Sid incident. One of the first retcons in WWE. But a very unnecessary one. I get what the idea was, it was to do the usual Hogan betrayed angle but the logic behind it was that Sid was a bad guy for eliminating Hulk from behind but its one of those to someone older it may seem sneaky but to the younger and even adult audience trying to spin Sid as a Heel is weird. Now say...Hulk eliminated Sid and Sid did that to Hulk, then IMO Sid would have been the Heel. Its like they got it backwards. Hulk should have thrown Sid out and in a bitter rage, Sid costs Hogan by yanking him and having Flair lift him over the rope. At least then you can say that while Hulk eliminated Sid fairly and justly that Sid eliminated Hogan unfairly and unjustly. Maybe Sid can justify it by saying it was Justice for Hulk eliminating Sid, play up Sid as a hired gun who does what he wants and Hulk as the hero who has to get revenge. Instead Hulk looked weak in defeat. World War 3 had the same problem which makes me thing Hulk had twisted logic about it. Wouldn't dubbing in cheers and boos long before this count as retcons? |
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 27,673
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Post by 4real on Jan 4, 2024 12:21:40 GMT -5
I thought this thread would be about The Berzerker You know who doesn’t get enough love for the 92 Rumble? Nikolai Volkoff |
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,100
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Post by tafkaga on Jan 4, 2024 13:00:18 GMT -5
I thought this thread would be about The Berzerker You know who doesn’t get enough love for the 92 Rumble? Nikolai Volkoff Speak for yourself. For me, the 92 Rumble begins when Nikolai Volkoff enters and ends 1 minute and 3 seconds later when Nikolai Volkoff's feet touch the floor. Still not sure who actually won that Rumble. |
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Post by Aceorton on Jan 4, 2024 13:22:43 GMT -5
I've been watching a lot of older stuff from '84-'85 lately, and Gorilla is such an obnoxious know-it-all. It's not the way I remember Gorilla when I was growing up, and that's because his pairing with Heenan, and Ventura to a slightly lesser extent, brought the best out of him. He was almost insufferable when left to his own devices, but playing off Heenan and Ventura he was gold. I also have been watching a lot of stuff in the '85-'86 range, before Heenan joined the broadcast table regularly. I'm convinced Monsoon never saw the abdominal stretch applied properly. And every referee who wasn't Joey Marella (especially the regional Northeast guys) was borderline incompetent. He really picked on Gilberto Roman. I've read that a lot of the wrestlers from that era were irked by how Monsoon openly critiqued their ringwork on commentary, and while it added some realism, I can see why they would be bothered by it. |
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
Posts: 2,100
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Post by tafkaga on Jan 4, 2024 13:44:58 GMT -5
I've been watching a lot of older stuff from '84-'85 lately, and Gorilla is such an obnoxious know-it-all. It's not the way I remember Gorilla when I was growing up, and that's because his pairing with Heenan, and Ventura to a slightly lesser extent, brought the best out of him. He was almost insufferable when left to his own devices, but playing off Heenan and Ventura he was gold. I also have been watching a lot of stuff in the '85-'86 range, before Heenan joined the broadcast table regularly. I'm convinced Monsoon never saw the abdominal stretch applied properly. And every referee who wasn't Joey Marella (especially the regional Northeast guys) was borderline incompetent. He really picked on Gilberto Roman. I've read that a lot of the wrestlers from that era were irked by how Monsoon openly critiqued their ringwork on commentary, and while it added some realism, I can see why they would be bothered by it. I like the realism to a point, but Gorilla seemed to have the mindset that his job was to sell the 'sport' of pro wrestling to the skeptics, which meant being the first to call out everything that might raise an eyebrow. "He doesn't have that hold on right, he'll never get him with a pin like that, this referee is clueless, he shouldn't be allowed to wear that ring gear". Tony Schiavone struck a good balance of acknowledging botches or moves that maybe weren't executed the best so as not to insult the fans intelligence, but also without making the performers look like incompetent oafs. |
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jan 4, 2024 13:55:21 GMT -5
I mentioned this before in a thread about the WM III build. Gorilla just completely buries any chance of Andre winning. For weeks on Primetime it's just "Your man is in trouble Brain" or "Hulkster is gonna slam him" or other similar things. Again I get he was the babyface host, but give Andre something, he was the Giant after all, instead of down playing any threat to Hogan.
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Post by johncasey on Jan 4, 2024 14:10:20 GMT -5
Worth keeping in mind that Gorilla and Bobby re-recorded their commentary for the end of the Rumble match so as the re-frame the Hogan/Sid incident. One of the first retcons in WWE. But a very unnecessary one. I get what the idea was, it was to do the usual Hogan betrayed angle but the logic behind it was that Sid was a bad guy for eliminating Hulk from behind but its one of those to someone older it may seem sneaky but to the younger and even adult audience trying to spin Sid as a Heel is weird. Now say...Hulk eliminated Sid and Sid did that to Hulk, then IMO Sid would have been the Heel. Its like they got it backwards. Hulk should have thrown Sid out and in a bitter rage, Sid costs Hogan by yanking him and having Flair lift him over the rope. At least then you can say that while Hulk eliminated Sid fairly and justly that Sid eliminated Hogan unfairly and unjustly. Maybe Sid can justify it by saying it was Justice for Hulk eliminating Sid, play up Sid as a hired gun who does what he wants and Hulk as the hero who has to get revenge. Instead Hulk looked weak in defeat. World War 3 had the same problem which makes me thing Hulk had twisted logic about it. That's what I've thought, why didn't do Sid and Hogan on reverse, I'll never know. It was simple. |
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Post by CeilingFan on Jan 4, 2024 19:45:53 GMT -5
I thought this thread would be about The Berzerker I found it amusing that he attacked the Undertaker first, a fellow Heel. |
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,051
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 5, 2024 0:08:07 GMT -5
I absolutely get why the Observer's readership found Gorilla really annoying, but he did really give Heenan and Ventura the perfect guy to play off of, and some of his obvious biases did play into that. It's also, frankly, kind of similar to sports broadcasters with their own tendency to wear their affiliations on their sleeve, or for former players to sometimes pat themselves on the back.
It's kind of amusing that Gorilla transitioned from a monster heel to a sort of grumpy commentator who was still ultimately a babyface.
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Jan 5, 2024 0:09:46 GMT -5
One of the first retcons in WWE. But a very unnecessary one. I get what the idea was, it was to do the usual Hogan betrayed angle but the logic behind it was that Sid was a bad guy for eliminating Hulk from behind but its one of those to someone older it may seem sneaky but to the younger and even adult audience trying to spin Sid as a Heel is weird. Now say...Hulk eliminated Sid and Sid did that to Hulk, then IMO Sid would have been the Heel. Its like they got it backwards. Hulk should have thrown Sid out and in a bitter rage, Sid costs Hogan by yanking him and having Flair lift him over the rope. At least then you can say that while Hulk eliminated Sid fairly and justly that Sid eliminated Hogan unfairly and unjustly. Maybe Sid can justify it by saying it was Justice for Hulk eliminating Sid, play up Sid as a hired gun who does what he wants and Hulk as the hero who has to get revenge. Instead Hulk looked weak in defeat. World War 3 had the same problem which makes me thing Hulk had twisted logic about it. Wouldn't dubbing in cheers and boos long before this count as retcons? I wouldn't categorize them the same. In the case of dubbing in boos and cheers its most times to amplify responses more than anything and even if there was no or the opposite reaction, its what aired that counts in the canon. In the case of here, they altered Gorilla's live commentary in a later airing. The original clip already aired and the new one was to try and evoke emotion from the audience through Gorilla's call of it. to drive home that Sid is a heel. |
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msc
Dennis Stamp
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Post by msc on Jan 5, 2024 6:39:31 GMT -5
Bobby Heenan is great as a funny heel commentator but at Rumble 92 and Mania 8 he's at his best because he has Gorilla to bounce off. I'd say no one got Bobby's humour better, and would feed him lines and comebacks while staying 100% in character.
And even in Super Face Commentator mode he's praising Flair. At no point does he go "Flair's a chump", he outright compliments the talent and endurance of Flair, he's just sceptical anyone can outlast the Rumble match. And then, slowly, Flair does, and proves Gorilla wrong. It's absolutely crucial to the overall result imo.
Also, him winding up Bobby all match about a bet they have on the match is priceless.
And they totally cover for Randy Savage having a right proper Macho Man moment...
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