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Post by centeroftheuniverse on May 18, 2024 12:10:21 GMT -5
The weird thing is, they had her finish 4th in the Rumble when still officially in NXT, had her initially go 5-0 on Smackdown and qualify for the Elimination Chamber only 3 weeks after being called up, all whilst getting lukewarm reactions, so they were trying to make her stand out - yet the moment she gets a reaction, she can barely win. It's March 8th since her last TV win, so that sounds worse, as it could have been March 29th with your passage, 10 weeks and counting - she probably won't be on the Saudi Smackdown show outside potential interference, so we'll be in June in no time. They also gave her NOTHING to do on a two night Mania (but Jade, who had done far less on the MR at that point, did get a Mania match) and this was after her fantastic performance in the Chamber match. She is over NOW. So arbitrarily waiting for some random amount of time is just stupid imo. I’ve never agreed with that philosophy.I agree. You just need see the likes of Charlotte, Shotzi, Cora, Nikkita, Tegan, possibly Asuka, Dakota last year and there being more and more injuries these days and you can't really have perfectly planned moments and be like xxx can have a few quiet months now but pick things back up in time for say Bash in Berlin, plus there's obviously other potential obstacles, which may or may not have cost her the QOTR crown . If someone is hot now, strike and take advantage of it. Doesn't necessarily need win the title, but keep her front and mind, and let her win some matches FFS.
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schma
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Post by schma on May 18, 2024 12:20:25 GMT -5
They also gave her NOTHING to do on a two night Mania (but Jade, who had done far less on the MR at that point, did get a Mania match) and this was after her fantastic performance in the Chamber match. She is over NOW. So arbitrarily waiting for some random amount of time is just stupid imo. I’ve never agreed with that philosophy.I agree. You just need see the likes of Charlotte, Shotzi, Cora, Nikkita, Tegan, possibly Asuka, Dakota last year and there being more and more injuries these days and you can't really have perfectly planned moments and be like xxx can have a few quiet months now but pick things back up in time for say Bash in Berlin, plus there's obviously other potential obstacles, which may or may not have cost her the QOTR crown . If someone is hot now, strike and take advantage of it. Doesn't necessarily need win the title, but keep her front and mind, and let her win some matches FFS. I would have thought her being in a number one contender spot and then a triple threat for the title would be considered keeping her front and mind. I understand why people would expect more from her performance and it does seem that the powers that be are playing catch up. However, I don't think she's in a bad place. She's still prominently featured, she has been pushed harder than many of the other women. Yes she hasn't had a big win in a while, but she's hardly chopped liver. She's also not the only one who ended up with an "of the ring" match on a house show. Honestly, that just seems like really bad planning more than anything.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on May 18, 2024 12:40:28 GMT -5
Saying that “well she’s not in a TERRIBLE” spot isn’t really a convincing defense to me.
When you see how good she is, and how over she is, strike while the iron is hot. There’s no reason not to. There’s no reason for her to have ZERO TV wins in two and a half months.
I have a question, why is she not goin after Bayley again? She did not get pinned in that triple threat.
She hasn’t had a big win AT ALL on the MR, that is another issue.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on May 18, 2024 12:42:11 GMT -5
I mean they plan for Tiffany to be around for 5-10 years so not sure the rush to give her the title within 4 months of her main roster debut as an act of ignoring her. She was in the title match at the last PPV and lost a long competitive match with Bianca.
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Post by centeroftheuniverse on May 18, 2024 12:51:50 GMT -5
I agree. You just need see the likes of Charlotte, Shotzi, Cora, Nikkita, Tegan, possibly Asuka, Dakota last year and there being more and more injuries these days and you can't really have perfectly planned moments and be like xxx can have a few quiet months now but pick things back up in time for say Bash in Berlin, plus there's obviously other potential obstacles, which may or may not have cost her the QOTR crown . If someone is hot now, strike and take advantage of it. Doesn't necessarily need win the title, but keep her front and mind, and let her win some matches FFS. I would have thought her being in a number one contender spot and then a triple threat for the title would be considered keeping her front and mind. I understand why people would expect more from her performance and it does seem that the powers that be are playing catch up. However, I don't think she's in a bad place. She's still prominently featured, she has been pushed harder than many of the other women. Yes she hasn't had a big win in a while, but she's hardly chopped liver. She's also not the only one who ended up with an "of the ring" match on a house show. Honestly, that just seems like really bad planning more than anything. She hasn't had ANY win in a while, never mind a big one , and somehow gets a title shot despite not winning in her previous 2 months, but yeah, she's obviously better positioned than a lot of the other women on the main roster, especially the RAW midcarders / tag teams, but then they did have her finish 4th in the Rumble when still officially in NXT, that's a big show of faith, won't be handed to any randomer, and massively raised expectations, that choreographed camera shot of Liv, Jade, her and Bianca, went 5-0 early on, and then when she does finally get over with the crowd, performances getting better, you'd think they'd be making her look as good as they possibly could and protect at all costs, but it's like well that's enough of that for now. Her first title shot would have been far better when she was actually in a position to win the title, never once did you think might they actually surprise us, swerve, and put the title on her now, although I am pleased she did get the opportunity to perform on another PLE. Rey and Kofi are legends, former champs, but at this stage of their careers are very unlikely to main event a PLE again, or be in another world title match, and as far as the KOTR competition was concerned, they felt like fodder from the start, and even more so when announced their matches were on house shows. Zelina/Shayna similar, Shayna is 42 and best years behind her and obviously hasn't been booked well for ages, and nobody would have considered them contenders, whereas some thought the Queen gimmick was tailor made for Tiffany, and an obvious front runner when the PLE was announced (before we saw the brackets), and to put a supposed rising young star off TV was a choice, and not a particular good one. LA Knight similar, he was very harshly done by given how over he is, and that did nothing at all for his stock either, especially after also losing on his return to TV, and people were rightly annoyed. It just showed that neither were really a priority at the moment, and it's no problem at all if we don't see them on TV.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 18, 2024 14:29:19 GMT -5
I mean they plan for Tiffany to be around for 5-10 years so not sure the rush to give her the title within 4 months of her main roster debut as an act of ignoring her. She was in the title match at the last PPV and lost a long competitive match with Bianca. It’s always like this in the women’s threads for some reason.
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john84
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Post by john84 on May 18, 2024 17:33:45 GMT -5
Tiffany will be fine, she’s the cream of the crop. She’s only been up for a cup of coffee in the big time at this point. The cream always rises to the top. I think her booking and opportunities have generally been decent for a new person on the main roster, but I do think Jade, also only up for a cup of coffee, being on the same show hasn't done her any favours, and her positioning has worsened these past couple of months as a result. A couple of months ago it was looking like 'new Charlotte', but now it's looking more like 'next Carmella'. ''Next Carmella?'' I wouldn't make that comparison just yet imo.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on May 18, 2024 18:51:35 GMT -5
I mean they plan for Tiffany to be around for 5-10 years so not sure the rush to give her the title within 4 months of her main roster debut as an act of ignoring her. She was in the title match at the last PPV and lost a long competitive match with Bianca. I mean she’s over NOW. So there’s no reason to drag things out and risk her cooling off. I think modern fans kind of just assume that you HAVE to wait, just because. And that’s not the case. She lost to a one legged Bianca. And she had not won a Match on TV since MARCH. Frankly yes, she should be champion sooner rather than later imo. Because she’s that good, she’s over with fans, and frankly the division is not that deep let’s be honest. But I’d start with just giving her a firm sense of direction at least.
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Post by callmekc on May 18, 2024 18:59:40 GMT -5
I mean they plan for Tiffany to be around for 5-10 years so not sure the rush to give her the title within 4 months of her main roster debut as an act of ignoring her. She was in the title match at the last PPV and lost a long competitive match with Bianca. It’s always like this in the women’s threads for some reason. Yep. The thread has hit the catastrophising phase, so I'm gonna dip.
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gritizen
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Post by gritizen on May 18, 2024 19:29:42 GMT -5
I mean they plan for Tiffany to be around for 5-10 years so not sure the rush to give her the title within 4 months of her main roster debut as an act of ignoring her. She was in the title match at the last PPV and lost a long competitive match with Bianca. It’s always like this in the women’s threads for some reason. I think the reason the women's threads get very intense is because the women haven't historically been able to slow rise up the card. They are either a star right away or they never win anything. I'm just going from the "official" start of the women's revolution when Becky, Charlotte & Sasha got called up and almost every woman who has been champ in that time won the the title within 18 months of their debut on the main roster. The only two exceptions to this have been Liv Morgan & Nikki Cross. However, Liv won the title a little over a year after the Riott Squad ended and Nikki won the title with in like a month after beginning the Nikki ASH gimmick.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on May 18, 2024 21:36:57 GMT -5
It’s always like this in the women’s threads for some reason. I think the reason the women's threads get very intense is because the women haven't historically been able to slow rise up the card. They are either a star right away or they never win anything. I'm just going from the "official" start of the women's revolution when Becky, Charlotte & Sasha got called up and almost every woman who has been champ in that time won the the title within 18 months of their debut on the main roster. The only two exceptions to this have been Liv Morgan & Nikki Cross. However, Liv won the title a little over a year after the Riott Squad ended and Nikki won the title with in like a month after beginning the Nikki ASH gimmick. Because there’s no card to slowly rise up through. Stratton was called up and she beat the whole face midcard/undercard available to her and reached the main eventers in under a month. A male wrestler would probably have three times as many wrestlers to beat before they hit a similar spot. Feels like there's still this belief of... If you're haven't got the patented WWE rocket strapped to you where you win EVERY match, look strong in EVERY segment, constantly winning belts and other things, getting ALL the extra perks like media appearances and being on the PPV posters (by the way, the pedestal you lot place being on the PPV poster is f***in' ridiculous, STOP DOING THAT STUPID SHIT RIGHT THE F*** NOW)... you're basically one stroke of a pen away from being fired. Like, it's not enough for Stratton to be where she is now a handful of months in her run, she has to be in Belair's EXACT spot RIGHT NOW. I said in the Damage CTRL thread a while back, to me it comes of that the issue isn't that it's "Super-Bianca", it's that it's NOT "Super-Iyo" (or "Super-Tiffany" as it would be in this case). And there still hasn't been much of an argument proving to me otherwise.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on May 18, 2024 23:25:15 GMT -5
Tiffany is absolutly over right now but again they plan for her to be around for a while not just for a minute. Let us say she beat Bayley for the title in France, what next? Just have her beat everyone until she loses near the rumble and then she wins the rumble for the mania spot?
That is the unfortunate part of the women's division over the last 6-8 years where if you are a main event woman (let's say Flair/Bianca because they come to mind) once you get to the top almost all of your feuds are over the top titles or you are hurt (or pregnant in some cases). There is very little mid-card substance unless you count an NXT run or a legend coming back. Look at Iyo Sky, she still seems fresh even though she has been on company TV for a couple of years now because she hasn't always been in title matches.
That is the risk you take if you strap up Tiffany too soon and people get burned out because she is always either the champion or fighting for the title because anything else is a demotion or depush down the card.
She is in a good spot now where she can have a program with like Naomi and slow burn your way to the top and have her win MITB or the rumble.
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Post by PHD-FENDERBAUM on May 19, 2024 0:03:04 GMT -5
A large part of the problem is WWE has conditioned alot of it's audience to believe that ONLY those either directly gunning for the title or holding it are important and that ends up defining and pigeonholding that particular talent.
I have always advocated for better booking for IYO and nothing to do with holding the title because I know that IYO and it was proven on Raw she can garner interest with any woman on this roster simply by not being held back and allowed to do what she does better than any other woman on this roster bell to bell.
But not every woman on this roster has that ability to simply engage the audience through a match like that and so their importance to the audience becomes tied to something else because again it is how WWE conditions the audience IMO.
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Post by mistery on May 19, 2024 7:48:26 GMT -5
I think the reason the women's threads get very intense is because the women haven't historically been able to slow rise up the card. They are either a star right away or they never win anything. I'm just going from the "official" start of the women's revolution when Becky, Charlotte & Sasha got called up and almost every woman who has been champ in that time won the the title within 18 months of their debut on the main roster. The only two exceptions to this have been Liv Morgan & Nikki Cross. However, Liv won the title a little over a year after the Riott Squad ended and Nikki won the title with in like a month after beginning the Nikki ASH gimmick. Because there’s no card to slowly rise up through. Stratton was called up and she beat the whole face midcard/undercard available to her and reached the main eventers in under a month. A male wrestler would probably have three times as many wrestlers to beat before they hit a similar spot. Feels like there's still this belief of... If you're haven't got the patented WWE rocket strapped to you where you win EVERY match, look strong in EVERY segment, constantly winning belts and other things, getting ALL the extra perks like media appearances and being on the PPV posters (by the way, the pedestal you lot place being on the PPV poster is f***in' ridiculous, STOP DOING THAT STUPID SHIT RIGHT THE F*** NOW)... you're basically one stroke of a pen away from being fired. Like, it's not enough for Stratton to be where she is now a handful of months in her run, she has to be in Belair's EXACT spot RIGHT NOW. I said in the Damage CTRL thread a while back, to me it comes of that the issue isn't that it's "Super-Bianca", it's that it's NOT "Super-Iyo" (or "Super-Tiffany" as it would be in this case). And there still hasn't been much of an argument proving to me otherwise. Here's the problem though, and this applies especially to women who are heels. Why the f*** should the fans care about the heels, if they are only used to make the babyfaces look good? There's a fine balance to be struck, as you need compelling/strong heels for the babyfaces to overcome. It's hard to be a strong heel when you are constantly fed to the babyfaces without getting anything in return. Look at Damage CTRL as a great example of this. They had all the potential in the world to be a huge, massively over heel faction. Instead they were bitched out constantly by Bianca for almost two entire years, with the only break being them getting bitched out by Becky, Trish, and Lita. And now all of them have a difficult time getting over, because the audience now has a Pavlovian response to them, because they realize "oh, here comes Damage CTRL just to lose". That's not even mentioning the fact that women rarely get non-title feuds on the main roster. Comparing women's booking on NXT and the main roster is like comparing night and day. There are numerous feuds for the women in NXT, where on the main roster, they only really focus on one or two feuds for the women. And generally those feuds involve the babyfaces just running over the heel almost every week without having to face any adversity.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 19, 2024 15:15:05 GMT -5
Because there’s no card to slowly rise up through. Stratton was called up and she beat the whole face midcard/undercard available to her and reached the main eventers in under a month. A male wrestler would probably have three times as many wrestlers to beat before they hit a similar spot. Feels like there's still this belief of... If you're haven't got the patented WWE rocket strapped to you where you win EVERY match, look strong in EVERY segment, constantly winning belts and other things, getting ALL the extra perks like media appearances and being on the PPV posters (by the way, the pedestal you lot place being on the PPV poster is f***in' ridiculous, STOP DOING THAT STUPID SHIT RIGHT THE F*** NOW)... you're basically one stroke of a pen away from being fired. Like, it's not enough for Stratton to be where she is now a handful of months in her run, she has to be in Belair's EXACT spot RIGHT NOW. I said in the Damage CTRL thread a while back, to me it comes of that the issue isn't that it's "Super-Bianca", it's that it's NOT "Super-Iyo" (or "Super-Tiffany" as it would be in this case). And there still hasn't been much of an argument proving to me otherwise. Here's the problem though, and this applies especially to women who are heels. Why the f*** should the fans care about the heels, if they are only used to make the babyfaces look good? There's a fine balance to be struck, as you need compelling/strong heels for the babyfaces to overcome. It's hard to be a strong heel when you are constantly fed to the babyfaces without getting anything in return. Look at Damage CTRL as a great example of this. They had all the potential in the world to be a huge, massively over heel faction. Instead they were bitched out constantly by Bianca for almost two entire years, with the only break being them getting bitched out by Becky, Trish, and Lita. And now all of them have a difficult time getting over, because the audience now has a Pavlovian response to them, because they realize "oh, here comes Damage CTRL just to lose". That's not even mentioning the fact that women rarely get non-title feuds on the main roster. Comparing women's booking on NXT and the main roster is like comparing night and day. There are numerous feuds for the women in NXT, where on the main roster, they only really focus on one or two feuds for the women. And generally those feuds involve the babyfaces just running over the heel almost every week without having to face any adversity. Damage CTRL has been pushed consistently, is over, their breakup even led to a featured Mania world title match, so those concerns kind of ring hollow to me.
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Post by Saiyanic Panic on May 22, 2024 22:45:19 GMT -5
No one's told me her career is on the decline in the last three days, guys.
I'm startin' to get the shakes.
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Post by centeroftheuniverse on May 23, 2024 6:07:29 GMT -5
The lack of activity on the thread is likely a reflection on where she is at the moment. It's probably going to be another quiet period up until MITB qualifying, just like the 5 weeks she missed leading up to Mania.
She is in Saudi at the moment as per her IG, so she may get on Smackdown in some capacity tomorrow, but there's nothing obvious for her. Thought she might have got involved in the QOTR semi final match leading to a tag title match at Clash, but promotionsl activity seems to indicate it might be the witches having that, and Piper is almost certainly facing Bayley at the PLE, so possibly just backstage segments at best until Clash is out of the way.
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schma
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Post by schma on May 23, 2024 7:57:57 GMT -5
The lack of activity on the thread is likely a reflection on where she is at the moment. It's probably going to be another quiet period up until MITB qualifying, just like the 5 weeks she missed leading up to Mania. She is in Saudi at the moment as per her IG, so she may get on Smackdown in some capacity tomorrow, but there's nothing obvious for her. Thought she might have got involved in the QOTR semi final match leading to a tag title match at Clash, but promotionsl activity seems to indicate it might be the witches having that, and Piper is almost certainly facing Bayley at the PLE, so possibly just backstage segments at best until Clash is out of the way. Oof, her having to go to Saudi for a backstage segment would really suck.
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gl83
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Post by gl83 on May 23, 2024 8:23:47 GMT -5
The lack of activity on the thread is likely a reflection on where she is at the moment. It's probably going to be another quiet period up until MITB qualifying, just like the 5 weeks she missed leading up to Mania. She is in Saudi at the moment as per her IG, so she may get on Smackdown in some capacity tomorrow, but there's nothing obvious for her. Thought she might have got involved in the QOTR semi final match leading to a tag title match at Clash, but promotionsl activity seems to indicate it might be the witches having that, and Piper is almost certainly facing Bayley at the PLE, so possibly just backstage segments at best until Clash is out of the way. Shayna/Zoey are the #1 contenders right now, so unless they blow through that ASAP, they'll probably be the ones challenging Bianca/Jade at Clash at the Castle.....
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Post by mistery on May 23, 2024 8:27:38 GMT -5
The lack of activity on the thread is likely a reflection on where she is at the moment. It's probably going to be another quiet period up until MITB qualifying, just like the 5 weeks she missed leading up to Mania. She is in Saudi at the moment as per her IG, so she may get on Smackdown in some capacity tomorrow, but there's nothing obvious for her. Thought she might have got involved in the QOTR semi final match leading to a tag title match at Clash, but promotionsl activity seems to indicate it might be the witches having that, and Piper is almost certainly facing Bayley at the PLE, so possibly just backstage segments at best until Clash is out of the way. Shayna/Zoey are the #1 contenders right now, so unless they blow through that ASAP, they'll probably be the ones challenging Bianca/Jade at Clash at the Castle..... I think they are absolutely gonna blow through that quickly, Bianca/Jade vs Shayna/Zoey at Clash at the Castle sounds like a match you would run to cool off a crowd, not sell a PLE on. I wouldn't be shocked if it ends up being Bianca/Jade vs Tiffany/Nia at Clash though.
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