When do you think WWF realised what they had with Austin?

[mcstoklasa]

Stone Colds rise is fascinating to me.

Vince was struggling badly, he's lost many of his big stars. He brings in Steve Austin for a barely mid card gimmick called The Ringmaster.

He soon allows Austin to change his name to Stone Cold. The curtain call happens so he lets Austin win KOTR 96. Everything starts falling into place.

I just find it so interesting because this isn't like when Vince brought Hogan, a pretty established star after Rocky 3, back into the WWF in the early 80s to be his top guy.

Stunning Steve and The Ringmaster never seemed destined to be the biggest star in history, and yet within a year or so this so called mid card guy is becoming hugely popular. The WWF kind of lucked into this and suddenly this guy is transforming before their eyes to be huge within a very short period.

When do you think the guys running WWF realised exactly what they had with Steve Austin? Of course the Austin 3:16 promo was a big thing, but I believe he didn't do much for a few months after that.

[The Thread Barbi]

When Bret came back and insisted on a programme with Austin.

He was just treading water till then.

KOTR is revisionist history at its finest since they did nothing with him till Bret in Survivor Series 96.

[tafkaga]

It was interesting seeing Vince seem legit confused by the reactions Austin was getting early in his Stone Cold run. Despite that, Vince seemed committed to him being Bad News Brown 2.0 until the feud with the Harts, and we saw Austin begin to morph into the lovable rattlesnake. I wonder how difficult it was to sell Vince on Austin as a babyface, given his history of squashing things for developing differently than he imagined. I guess it was just desperate times.

[mcstoklasa]

Mar 3, 2024 20:18:17 GMT -5 tafkaga said:

It was interesting seeing Vince seem legit confused by the reactions Austin was getting early in his Stone Cold run. Despite that, Vince seemed committed to him being Bad News Brown 2.0 until the feud with the Harts, and we saw Austin begin to morph into the lovable rattlesnake. I wonder how difficult it was to sell Vince on Austin as a babyface, given his history of squashing things for developing differently than he imagined. I guess it was just desperate times.

That's another thing that's so interesting about it.

Vince of the last ten/fifteen years was far more strict and very different in terms of letting talent do what they want to how he was in 96.

[LiamMcDuggle]

Mar 3, 2024 19:14:17 GMT -5 The Thread Barbi said:

When Bret came back and insisted on a programme with Austin.

He was just treading water till then.

KOTR is revisionist history at its finest since they did nothing with him till Bret in Survivor Series 96.

Story goes Bret like Austin's work from WCW against Flair and Steamboat. So WWE fairly randomly pushed him to win the King of the Ring to build him for Bret (Triple H was supposed to win that, but Curtain Call) and he used the King of the Ring to do his Austin 3:16 promo and then did those taped promos in the lead up to Survivor Series, which really got him over.

In reality, Austin would ended up being a star eventually anyways. Every promo opportunity he got, he hit it out of the ballpark, so I am inclined to say it would have eventually happened anyways, but without Bret, I don't think it happens nearly as quickly.

2 months before the King of the Ring, he was regularly losing to Savio Vega cleanly. He was a lower-mid card guy. Bret picking him, forced Vince to have him win KOTR and cut that promo.

Also, Bret could have just beaten Austin in a throw away 10 minute match, but Bret gave Austin a 30 min competitive match. Him being seen in the same light as Bret Hart gave him instant main even credibility. I would say around this match is when he really started gaining momentum 

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

It probably helped that the WWF was pretty thin on talent depth at the time. If Bret wanted to be more generous to Austin than Vince had in mind, it's not like he had anything much better to counter with or competing with TV/PPV time.

[Renslayer]

"IF YOU PUT THE LETTER S IN FRONT OF HITMAN, YOU'VE HAD MY EXACT OPINION OF BRET HART!"

[mcstoklasa]

Mar 4, 2024 1:43:31 GMT -5 Oh Cry Me a Screwball said:

It probably helped that the WWF was pretty thin on talent depth at the time. If Bret wanted to be more generous to Austin than Vince had in mind, it's not like he had anything much better to counter with or competing with TV/PPV time.

Regarding the talent I wonder if Vince was just thinking about trying to get old established stars back from WCW like Nash, Hall etc to help ratings when he had young talent right under his nose who just needed an opportunity.

Still can't believe how young Austin was in his run. I guess he always seemed about 39-40 to me as a kid but in his prime years he was mid thirties and retired at 38. So many guys today older than that.

[fw91]

The Bret feud, but I think Rumble 97 was his coming out party.

[tirtefaa]

Yeah, it's gotta be his feud with Bret.

His post KOTR stuff was all over the place especially since they didn't give him much other than having him face off against faces for a few months longer, even his post Bret stuff was a little uneven until they finally just let him go out there and gave him something of an actual push. I would say it probably wasn't until the summer of '97 where the company itself finally started getting behind him for good.

[Ben Wyatt]

I'd say once the bell rang at the end of the Survivor Series 96 match.

[mcstoklasa]

AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT PUTTING ON YOUR LITTLE BLACK AND PINK TIGHTS BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE CRAP ANYWAY!

[sarkerpolseng]

It was in the buildup to Bret. Fall 1996. Guy was getting his own taped vignettes promoting the match. They really emphasized his then newish theme in these promos.

Some people tend to only remember Monday Night Raw. They did a lot of Stone Cold build up on thier weekend shows. Especially Superstars and Livewire.

I remember he had that interview at Stamford HQ, and he was assaultingg faculty members.

[fg]

Mar 4, 2024 18:46:48 GMT -5 sarkerpolseng said:

It was in the buildup to Bret. Fall 1996. Guy was getting his own taped vignettes promoting the match. They really emphasized his then newish theme in these promos.

Some people tend to only remember Monday Night Raw. They did a lot of Stone Cold build up on thier weekend shows. Especially Superstars and Livewire.

I remember he had that interview at Stamford HQ, and he was assaultingg faculty members.

And when the cops came,I think he said that there’s a Dunkin Donuts nearby. LOL!

[Confused Mark Wahlberg]

I always thought it was weird how he was called 'The Rattlesnake', when a rattlesnake gives you fair warning to stay away from them before they strike.

He was more like a Mantis Shrimp, who gives you the 1-2 combo at any time as they punch you into oblivion.

That's right, 'The Mantis Shrimp' Stone Cold Steve Austin.

[mcstoklasa]

Mar 6, 2024 11:02:22 GMT -5 Confused Mark Wahlberg said:

I always thought it was weird how he was called 'The Rattlesnake', when a rattlesnake gives you fair warning to stay away from them before they strike.

He was more like a Mantis Shrimp, who gives you the 1-2 combo at any time as they punch you into oblivion.

That's right, 'The Mantis Shrimp' Stone Cold Steve Austin.

Is he the first "babyface" to just attack whoever is in the ring with him (not matches but in ring segments) whether they're face or heel?

[LiamMcDuggle]

One thing I want to note is how important Austin's vibe and jargon were. Prior to Austin's vignettes leading up to his match against Bret at Survivor Series 96, heels were overly cheesy, Memphis style cartoons. Austin's use of language, combined with his tone just made him feel real.


The 80's/early 90's is just hard to explain to younger people. The internet barely existed and TV was the main source of entertainment, and everything on TV was relatively lame and "safe". This wholesome culture being shoved down our throats is more or less the reason things like ECW, the Tom Green Show and Jackass became popular.

[Confused Mark Wahlberg]

Mar 6, 2024 23:35:40 GMT -5 mcstoklasa said:

Mar 6, 2024 11:02:22 GMT -5 Confused Mark Wahlberg said:

I always thought it was weird how he was called 'The Rattlesnake', when a rattlesnake gives you fair warning to stay away from them before they strike.

He was more like a Mantis Shrimp, who gives you the 1-2 combo at any time as they punch you into oblivion.

That's right, 'The Mantis Shrimp' Stone Cold Steve Austin.

Is he the first "babyface" to just attack whoever is in the ring with him (not matches but in ring segments) whether they're face or heel?

He's the first one I recall, but I never watched any of the territories, so maybe they did it there.

[OGBoardPoster2005]

A lot of revisionist history in this thread.

The Ringmaster may not have been a big deal but he was definitely positioned and talked up as one.

The Savio feud allowed Austin to show what he could do in a WWF ring. Thats where the "Stone Cold" moniker started. He was maybe Ringmaster for 2 months before they shifted to "Stone Cold".

That feud also allowed Austin to begin an arc to rid himself of DiBiase from the feud starting with Ted instigating the issue to throwing in the stipulation that he would leave the WWF if Austin lost.

If you go back and watch that Promo with Ted on Raw prior to Beware of Dog, the moment he says that Austin shoots a look at him that is vague but seems to be a light bulb going off in his head. Its not overt but implied in a promo after Dog on Superstars that Austin threw the match to rid himself of DiBiase who likely had Austin binded in a contract hard to get out of.

From there he won the tournament and cut the promo. It was a big deal for the character because it showed what he could do on a large stage and showed in kayfabe the ruthlessness and determiniation to succeed that he had.

The problem was there really isn't a lot of guys to chose from to bridge him to the Bret feud. Had Bret returned at Summerslam instead you would have had an easy, quicker segway but Bret not returning lead to a weird delay where they had to find something to do but couldn't really commit him to anyone per se.

He had a 15 minute match with Taker the next night on Raw ruined by Mankind's interference and beat Savio every night on the House Show circuit after Savio had the upper hand. They gave him Marc Mero who they had big plans for a month later and he got the win at International Incident. This showed they had some sort of commitment to Austin to allow him to go over Mero who was much more touted.

He got a countout win on Taker on Raw after, showing twice he can hang with the Undertaker, someone that many had struggled to and a measurement of kayfabe of where he was on the card.

This is where I feel Bret's return was suppose to be earlier because after he doesn't have a feud but there really aren't many guys to chose from. He had already beaten Mero; Taker was feuding with Mankind, Shawn was feuding with Vader, and so there really weren't a lot of babyfaces to chose from, so giving him an easy free win on a former WWF Champion like Yokozuna was an option to at least give him TV time to grow.

After Summerslam, he's actually gonna face Bret in South Africa in September and lose but go 20 minutes doing so. I think the WWF preferred doing their PPV match at MSG where they knew it would be a larger deal than a throwaway In Your House but it does lead to an odd era where they seem to be heading somewhere with Austin, but couldn't make a move til Bret came back so they just gave him wins over Taker, Yoko, Mero, Savio, and had him on House Shows competing with Shawn in losing efforts.

So I'm not sure where some of the ideas in here come from. The WWF always had something in mind with Austin, but not exactly what happened in the end. It seemed they really committed to him when Ted left and allowed him to be in a position where he grew into a proper Main Eventer with Survivor Series 1996 solidfiying it, but the months leading up showing he's the best of the next generation coming up and can hang with the ones of the previous and from a kayfabe 1996 WWF perspective, thats all you need in building a Main Eventer, especially if he talks as well as he walks and the crowd responds to it.

[johnnyk9]

I hope when Dibiase left him because I felt he came into his own right away