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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Mar 27, 2024 8:49:17 GMT -5
So prior to the InVasion, Triple H and Austin were running roughshod on the WWF and Stephanie had been still by Triple H's side.
Let's say the quad tear doesn't happen, where does Triple H go for the InVasion?
To me it almost makes sense that he'd be in the Alliance being Stephanie's husband. Perhaps he's the main leader having also been disllioned with Vince and his decision making and citing WCW giving him his first break long before Vince knew his name.
Would Austin have joined him too? The group did just seem like a bunch of guys lead by people Vince screwed over disgruntled alos losing their jobs, but where does H sit and does he turn Face still?
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Post by chronocross on Mar 27, 2024 8:51:03 GMT -5
I think he would have turned face sooner and been in Angle's spot against Austin that summer.
They did start teasing dissension between the 2 after Triple-H lost the IC belt and before the 2 Man Power Trip lost the tag belts.
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DragonMasterP
King Koopa
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Post by DragonMasterP on Mar 27, 2024 8:57:06 GMT -5
I'm not sure what he would have actually done, so I'll just go with my go-to joke answer: He would have gone over the entire Alliance in about a month all by himself.
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
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Post by hassanchop on Mar 27, 2024 9:01:57 GMT -5
If he goes to the Alliance, would he become Jean Paul Lavesque again? Or will he be Terra Ryzin again?
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Mar 27, 2024 9:24:54 GMT -5
If he goes to the Alliance, would he become Jean Paul Lavesque again? Or will he be Terra Ryzin again? "I just want to clear up something. My name isn't really Hunter Hearst Helmsley. I was born Jean-Paul Levesque but as a boy they called me, "Terra Ryzing". But really I am Billy Joe Ray Roy." |
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Mar 27, 2024 9:42:54 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure JR or Bruce has said the plan was for babyface Triple H Vs heel Austin through the summer.
I think the Invasion would have taken place later in 2001 possibly even beginning in 02 if it wasn't for Triple H's injury scuppering plans.
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Mar 27, 2024 11:03:54 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure JR or Bruce has said the plan was for babyface Triple H Vs heel Austin through the summer. I think the Invasion would have taken place later in 2001 possibly even beginning in 02 if it wasn't for Triple H's injury scuppering plans. Are we sure we even get it? Seems like they really wanted to a brand split in 2001 with WCW as the 2nd brand but the networks weren't big on it because they saw WCW as a dead property, and the Triple H injury forced their hands. 2001 had so many changes in direction it felt like Russo booked it |
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Post by Hulkshi Tanahashi on Mar 27, 2024 12:26:49 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure JR or Bruce has said the plan was for babyface Triple H Vs heel Austin through the summer. I think the Invasion would have taken place later in 2001 possibly even beginning in 02 if it wasn't for Triple H's injury scuppering plans. I have heard that. I also heard that there probably was going to be a small feud between Triple H and Chris Benoit over the Intercontinental Title, but I can’t remember where I heard that from. |
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Mar 27, 2024 13:04:42 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure JR or Bruce has said the plan was for babyface Triple H Vs heel Austin through the summer. I think the Invasion would have taken place later in 2001 possibly even beginning in 02 if it wasn't for Triple H's injury scuppering plans. Are we sure we even get it? Seems like they really wanted to a brand split in 2001 with WCW as the 2nd brand but the networks weren't big on it because they saw WCW as a dead property, and the Triple H injury forced their hands. 2001 had so many changes in direction it felt like Russo booked it Yeah part of the reason for the Invasion being so bad was that it really wasn't the original plan. The plan was for Monday night Raw to become WCW Monday Nitro but the network told Vince to kick rocks with that idea, especially after the negative reception to Booker T vs Buff Bagwell. He didn't really know what else to do, panicked, and the Invasion was the result. |
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
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Post by hassanchop on Mar 27, 2024 17:15:35 GMT -5
Are we sure we even get it? Seems like they really wanted to a brand split in 2001 with WCW as the 2nd brand but the networks weren't big on it because they saw WCW as a dead property, and the Triple H injury forced their hands. 2001 had so many changes in direction it felt like Russo booked it Yeah part of the reason for the Invasion being so bad was that it really wasn't the original plan. The plan was for Monday night Raw to become WCW Monday Nitro but the network told Vince to kick rocks with that idea, especially after the negative reception to Booker T vs Buff Bagwell. He didn't really know what else to do, panicked, and the Invasion was the result. I heard that Vince originally wanted to keep WCW on the Turner Networks. Which is strange, as it sounds like he doesn't know how Networks, deals or contracts work. But this is Vince, so not much of a surprise. |
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Muskrat
Wade Wilson
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Post by Muskrat on Mar 27, 2024 17:42:28 GMT -5
Yeah part of the reason for the Invasion being so bad was that it really wasn't the original plan. The plan was for Monday night Raw to become WCW Monday Nitro but the network told Vince to kick rocks with that idea, especially after the negative reception to Booker T vs Buff Bagwell. He didn't really know what else to do, panicked, and the Invasion was the result. I heard that Vince originally wanted to keep WCW on the Turner Networks. Which is strange, as it sounds like he doesn't know how Networks, deals or contracts work. But this is Vince, so not much of a surprise. I could be wrong so don't take me as gospel here, but I believe Vince was close to buying WCW in the fall of 2000 when it would've still been on Turner and the new Spike deal kiaboshed that. Vince's belief was it's a separate company so it wouldn't violate the exclusivity with Spike, whereas Spike was basically "F*** you it's still a WWF owned wrestling promotion". Having just gone through a big lawsuit with USA to allow them to jump to Spike, Vince just said f*** it and walked away from the WCW. And then come summer of 2001, after Vince had bought WCW Spike said they weren't interested in airing WCW and WWF was f***ed and couldn't shop it to other networks without Spike permission. And, if you remember how rough that relationship was pretty much from the start, there is no way in f*** they were gonna get permission |
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Post by karl100589 on Mar 27, 2024 17:49:19 GMT -5
I think pre buyout the plan was for face Triple H vs Heel Austin over the summer, so I assume they would’ve kept that intact with Trips taking Angle’s place. I can see a storyline with Steph using her marriage to Trips to coast him over only to commit to the WWF and lead to their on screen breakup, basically what happened in early 02 six months earlier.
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
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Post by hassanchop on Mar 27, 2024 20:36:16 GMT -5
I heard that Vince originally wanted to keep WCW on the Turner Networks. Which is strange, as it sounds like he doesn't know how Networks, deals or contracts work. But this is Vince, so not much of a surprise. I could be wrong so don't take me as gospel here, but I believe Vince was close to buying WCW in the fall of 2000 when it would've still been on Turner and the new Spike deal kiaboshed that. Vince's belief was it's a separate company so it wouldn't violate the exclusivity with Spike, whereas Spike was basically "F*** you it's still a WWF owned wrestling promotion". Having just gone through a big lawsuit with USA to allow them to jump to Spike, Vince just said f*** it and walked away from the WCW. And then come summer of 2001, after Vince had bought WCW Spike said they weren't interested in airing WCW and WWF was f***ed and couldn't shop it to other networks without Spike permission. And, if you remember how rough that relationship was pretty much from the start, there is no way in f*** they were gonna get permission He could have gone by a loophole by saying they are airing Raw as a brand, so it is ECW/WCW except in name. |
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Mar 28, 2024 6:54:31 GMT -5
Yeah part of the reason for the Invasion being so bad was that it really wasn't the original plan. The plan was for Monday night Raw to become WCW Monday Nitro but the network told Vince to kick rocks with that idea, especially after the negative reception to Booker T vs Buff Bagwell. He didn't really know what else to do, panicked, and the Invasion was the result. I heard that Vince originally wanted to keep WCW on the Turner Networks. Which is strange, as it sounds like he doesn't know how Networks, deals or contracts work. But this is Vince, so not much of a surprise. Yeah because the guy who negotiated deals to get himself on NBC, TBS, USA, Fox, Spike TV, and MTV for 18 years at that point knows 0 about any of that. I get its "cool" and "sweet" to hate Vince these days but its ignorant of history to pretend he was just an idiot that happened to get lucky in business. Luck doesn't get you that far in business. To explain, the deal was that they were hoping and under the impression they could get a deal on TBS or TNT but Turner went in another direction. Given the people running it I can see them entertaining it and maybe implying to get a sale through and Vince saying "What if" in his head. Vince probably was hopeful if he foot the bill that they would allow it to air, but Turner was ready to move on from wrestling in their new regime. As for the brand splitting said in here as well, the concept of a Brand Split did not exist in Pro Wrestling in any capacity. WCW got away with sending B level talent on lower-tier shows like Worldwide and Saturday Night because they were on the same family of networks as their main show Nitro and Clash of the Champions. I can see Spike TV not being happy at all with a brand split featuring a dead brand they didn't want on their network. They wanted the WWF of 1997-2000 that shattered records in the ratings and featured The Rock, Austin, Triple H, Mick Foley, Undertaker, Kane and Vince, they didn't care about WCW guys at all. To pitch a brand split was telling Spike, "Hey, you know how you paid to get a show with all of our talent on? Well now its just half and not all the stars are there." They had to load up to make that work. If you had done a brand split in March 2001 after Wrestlemania 17 it wouldn't have been enough to satisfy Spike and likely not satisfy UPN. Whereas in 2002 you had Austin, Triple H, The Rock, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, Kurt Angle, Rob Van Dam, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Hulk Hogan, Kane, Undertaker, The Dudleyz, The Hardyz, Edge and Christian, and Booker T compared to the year prior where it was Austin, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, Triple H, Kurt, Kane, Undertaker, The Dudleyz and Edge and Christian. I'm pretty sure the brand split created a rift too with Spike who got sold on that they were getting the WWF of 1997-2000 and instead got the WWE of 2002-2005 in the long run as Austin, Rock and Foley were all gone within a few years of the original deal. Hence why Spike was involved so much with TNA later. They saw ECW go sideways because Paul tried to double cross them and shot on them on their own network, and the WWF promised the WWF but instead gave them this convoluted new wrestling promotion that had the WWF template but was trying to all at once implement and integrate WCW, ECW and OVW into it, thus creating what really was a new company by the middle of 2002 that had ties to the WWF, WCW, and ECW but was forming its own unique identity similar to how WCW was made from the ashes of Mid-Atlantic, Georgia, Florida, St. Louis, and Mid-South with AWA being the final ingredient prior to the 1991 splitoff from the NWA. |
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Post by eJm on Mar 28, 2024 9:39:06 GMT -5
I heard that Vince originally wanted to keep WCW on the Turner Networks. Which is strange, as it sounds like he doesn't know how Networks, deals or contracts work. But this is Vince, so not much of a surprise. Yeah because the guy who negotiated deals to get himself on NBC, TBS, USA, Fox, Spike TV, and MTV for 18 years at that point knows 0 about any of that. I don't think that's what was being said at all. Like, Turner was washing their hands of WCW so much so that their parent company sold the whole thing for about how much Charlotte Flair allegedly gets paid yearly under her new deal. They weren't exactly going to have it on their networks for any reason when they finally had the right to shoot the thing dead and cancel Nitro, Thunder and everything else. And USA wasn't going to accept one of their channel tentpoles being replaced with a brand as tarnished like Nitro was. |
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Mar 28, 2024 17:07:39 GMT -5
Yeah because the guy who negotiated deals to get himself on NBC, TBS, USA, Fox, Spike TV, and MTV for 18 years at that point knows 0 about any of that. I don't think that's what was being said at all. Like, Turner was washing their hands of WCW so much so that their parent company sold the whole thing for about how much Charlotte Flair allegedly gets paid yearly under her new deal. They weren't exactly going to have it on their networks for any reason when they finally had the right to shoot the thing dead and cancel Nitro, Thunder and everything else. And USA wasn't going to accept one of their channel tentpoles being replaced with a brand as tarnished like Nitro was. I don't think it was him not understanding that, considering that the brand split would have had WCW on Mondays, they weren't going to end Raw on TNN to have WCW air on TNT Monday. The ink hadn't dried. USA had left the game in 2000, TNN/Spike was only 6 months into the deal when the WCW purchase happened. I think Vince had hoped that WCW could be a viable brand but even though wrestling is a general sport, promotions have different monetary value, hence why TNN was not keen on it. Why bring in a product that Turner gave up? |
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Post by greyfmdan on Mar 28, 2024 18:03:45 GMT -5
Being a media geek, I dig these conversations.
I’ve long heard the rumor that Vince intended to turn either Raw or SD into a WCW show. If it’s true, I have to wonder what planet he was on. Spike/TNN and UPN were paying for WWF programming. They were never going to accept being baited & switched into changing their respective top-rated shows into a vanquished brand, nor should they have.
With that said, I still believe WCW had some brand equity in it—despite being well off its peak, Nitro was still a top 20 cable show when it was cancelled. If Vince had approached it more as a brand to be rehabilitated, perhaps offering a one-hour off-peak weekend slot with the chance for more later, I wonder if the reaction from network programmers might have been better.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
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Post by tirtefaa on Mar 28, 2024 18:06:15 GMT -5
Not that I ever wish injury for anyone, but Triple H tearing his quad was a blessing for the Invasion.
I can only imagine how much more lopsided and weak they'd make WCW appear with Triple H in the Alliance.
It's just amazing looking back on...just about every bad decision they could have made when booking it, is the story we ended up getting.
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Post by nakedmideon on Mar 28, 2024 18:09:48 GMT -5
I don't think HHH turns heel or takes the Angle spot. He was always a politicker and knew fans would never really cheer him over Austin. Thats why he went heel after WM17 too. It made so much sense for him to become the top babyface with The Rock going away but he was too insecure
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Mar 28, 2024 18:28:12 GMT -5
I see HHH vs. DDP as the first major program of both during this time.
And unlike Mark, er.... Undertaker. He's not so insecure about the WCW invaders that he would probably bump and sell incredibly well and make DDP a threat.
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