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Post by normcoleman on Oct 21, 2007 23:27:10 GMT -5
I'm going to bed ya'll. I gotta give a speech for public speaking.....I'm going to warn the class lol
Congrats Sox fans and thanks for the memories Tribe
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Post by drjayphd (feat. Pitbull) on Oct 22, 2007 1:27:20 GMT -5
Think it's a coincidence that the Sox have gone to 2 world series since not signing A-Rod? no, it's... just something that happened. He has hit 173 home runs since that signing... I doubt that would have hurt the Red Sox chances. Well, of course, that's not accounting for him being the biggest choker in New York playoff history BOOOOO A-RO-- ...wait, what? Derek who?
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Post by Insomniac on Oct 22, 2007 1:30:35 GMT -5
no, it's... just something that happened. He has hit 173 home runs since that signing... I doubt that would have hurt the Red Sox chances. Well, of course, that's not accounting for him being the biggest choker in New York playoff history BOOOOO A-RO-- ...wait, what? Derek who? But Jeter is too loved by the NY fans and media! There's no way they'd ever blame things on him! Actually, that failure against Cleveland was a team effort. Wang, Posada, Clemens, Jeter, all struggled. I think Matsui played like crap too, but I'm not totally sure. BTW, as for the goat of this Cleveland series, despite what happened in Game 7 with Lofton/Skinner/Blake, I think you have to point a finger at three guys: Carmona, Sabathia, and Hafner. Especially Hafner and his 9 or 10 Ks in the last 5 games of the series.
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Sajoa Moe
Patti Mayonnaise
Did you get that thing I sent ya?
A man without gimmick.
Posts: 39,683
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Post by Sajoa Moe on Oct 22, 2007 10:31:51 GMT -5
I'd like to commend the 2007 Cleveland Indians for resting on their laurels and half-assing the remainder of the series. Because they didn't care, I didn't care.
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Post by VRM: LET'S GO BLUESHIRTS!! on Oct 22, 2007 11:19:21 GMT -5
Well at least now I can devote myself 100% to Rocktober (as will every single Yankees fan in the world).
But I have to agree that the goats of this series are the Cleveland starters (Except Westbrook, because he actually did pretty good last night) and last night's bullpen effort.
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on Oct 22, 2007 14:26:35 GMT -5
Whoever mentioned Fever Pitch - that was originally a book and film about Arsenal.
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Ace Diamond
Patti Mayonnaise
Believes in Adrian Veidt, as Should We All.
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Posts: 36,043
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Post by Ace Diamond on Oct 22, 2007 14:28:49 GMT -5
I'd like to commend the 2007 Cleveland Indians for resting on their laurels and half-assing the remainder of the series. Because they didn't care, I didn't care. Oh they did care, they cared so much they thought too far ahead. Nice job on selling off those World Series "rip the Rockies" T-shirts before completely blowing it, Front Office
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Sajoa Moe
Patti Mayonnaise
Did you get that thing I sent ya?
A man without gimmick.
Posts: 39,683
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Post by Sajoa Moe on Oct 22, 2007 15:23:49 GMT -5
Something that might be mildly amusing:
I went to the viewing party at Jacobs Field for Game 6 on Saturday. Even though the Indians were half-assing the whole game, me and the other guys with me tried to have fun with it.
Anyway, after Ortiz hit into a double play to end the second inning, I high-fived everyone, then stood up, shouted "I'M HUNGRY!", then went off to the concession stand.
I don't think anyone got it.
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Massive G
Hank Scorpio
yo hago esto
Posts: 6,224
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Post by Massive G on Oct 23, 2007 1:02:06 GMT -5
just for the record.
Red Sox, since 2004 (A-Rod trade)
372 wins. 3520 runs, 3042 runs allowed.
Yankees, since 2004.
386 wins. 3695 runs, 3125 runs allowed.
BOS run differential: +478 NYY run differential: +570.
The playoffs are about luck and situational karma. How else do you explain the Rockies, or the Cardinals last year? Use your brains, people.
I wish all the Sox well except the blowhard Curt Schilling. The Yankees... I don't care about. But I love logic and factual information.
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Post by Insomniac on Oct 23, 2007 1:13:43 GMT -5
just for the record. Red Sox in the playoffs, since 2004 (A-Rod trade) 18 Wins, 9 losses, 2 WS appearances, 1 WS win (so far). Yankees in the playoffs, since 2004. 10 Wins, 14 losses, 0 WS appearances, 0 WS wins. Fixed I couldn't care less about what teams do in the regular season, how many runs they score, how many they allow. As long as you make the playoffs, and get the job done in October when it really counts, when everything is on the line, when the pressure is greater than ever... that's the only thing that matters to me. And in the last 4 years, the Red Sox have succeeded in October. The Yankees have not. One World Series appearance, for the first time in 86 years, maybe you can call that lucky. But getting there again 3 years later, and making a great comeback again... that's just being good.
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Ace Diamond
Patti Mayonnaise
Believes in Adrian Veidt, as Should We All.
mmm...flavor text
Posts: 36,043
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Post by Ace Diamond on Oct 23, 2007 1:24:14 GMT -5
just for the record. Red Sox in the playoffs, since 2004 (A-Rod trade) 18 Wins, 9 losses, 2 WS appearances, 1 WS win (so far). Yankees in the playoffs, since 2004. 10 Wins, 14 losses, 0 WS appearances, 0 WS wins. Fixed I couldn't care less about what teams do in the regular season, how many runs they score, how many they allow. As long as you make the playoffs, and get the job done in October when it really counts, when everything is on the line, when the pressure is greater than ever... that's the only thing that matters to me. And in the last 4 years, the Red Sox have succeeded in October. The Yankees have not. One World Series appearance, for the first time in 86 years, maybe you can call that lucky. But getting there again 3 years later, and making a great comeback again... that's just being good. Ballgame, Maggle.
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Massive G
Hank Scorpio
yo hago esto
Posts: 6,224
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Post by Massive G on Oct 23, 2007 1:28:03 GMT -5
just for the record. Red Sox in the playoffs, since 2004 (A-Rod trade) 18 Wins, 9 losses, 2 WS appearances, 1 WS win (so far). Yankees in the playoffs, since 2004. 10 Wins, 14 losses, 0 WS appearances, 0 WS wins. Fixed I couldn't care less about what teams do in the regular season, how many runs they score, how many they allow. As long as you make the playoffs, and get the job done in October when it really counts, when everything is on the line, when the pressure is greater than ever... that's the only thing that matters to me. And in the last 4 years, the Red Sox have succeeded in October. The Yankees have not. One World Series appearance, for the first time in 86 years, maybe you can call that lucky. But getting there again 3 years later, and making a great comeback again... that's just being good. come on dude. Please don't tell me that you think 15 games are of greater importance than 162! I will kindly remind you that performance in those 162 should be a good indicator of success, but it doesn't always work that way. Remember when the Mariners won 116 games? I've said before, I got love for Ortiz, ManRam, and Paps, but if you want to factor in "post season success" than do the whole enchilada. NYY WS championships: 26 BOS WS championships: 1 For the millionth time, I'm not even a Yankees fan, I hate the Yankees. But come on. Does a team with a better run differential have a better chance over a period of time? I would guess yes. If someone has a "get the job done in October when it really counts, when everything is on the line, when the pressure is greater than ever" stat, I would love to see the splits. Seriously. It might be enlightening.
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Ace Diamond
Patti Mayonnaise
Believes in Adrian Veidt, as Should We All.
mmm...flavor text
Posts: 36,043
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Post by Ace Diamond on Oct 23, 2007 1:30:46 GMT -5
Fixed I couldn't care less about what teams do in the regular season, how many runs they score, how many they allow. As long as you make the playoffs, and get the job done in October when it really counts, when everything is on the line, when the pressure is greater than ever... that's the only thing that matters to me. And in the last 4 years, the Red Sox have succeeded in October. The Yankees have not. One World Series appearance, for the first time in 86 years, maybe you can call that lucky. But getting there again 3 years later, and making a great comeback again... that's just being good. come on dude. Please don't tell me that you think 15 games are of greater importance than 162! I will kindly remind you that performance in those 162 should be a good indicator of success, but it doesn't always work that way. Remember when the Mariners won 116 games? I've said before, I got love for Ortiz, ManRam, and Paps, but if you want to factor in "post season success" than do the whole enchilada. NYY WS championships: 26 BOS WS championships: 1 For the millionth time, I'm not even a Yankees fan, I hate the Yankees. But come on. Does a team with a better run differential have a better chance over a period of time? I would guess yes. If someone has a "get the job done in October when it really counts, when everything is on the line, when the pressure is greater than ever" stat, I would love to see the splits. Seriously. It might be enlightening. You wanna factor in post season success this <illlenium? you know, when maybe 1 or 2 people that were on the Yankees in 2000 are on them in 2007? Number of WS titles for the Boston Red Sox since 2001: 1 Number of WS Titles for NYY since 2001: 0Number of Postseasons the NYY have blown to teams like the D-backs, the Marlins, The White Sox, The Red Sox, etc. since 2001: All of them Number of Teams that have blown a 3-0 lead in a playoff best of 7 since EVER: Just one. The New. York. Yankees. Where is your Bambino now? EDIT: Oh and by the way, Boston has more than 1 WS title, Mr. intellecutal dishonesty. They have 6. Sure it's not 26, but we have the first, something you guys don't have. There's a reason it's called the Cy Young award, after all.
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Massive G
Hank Scorpio
yo hago esto
Posts: 6,224
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Post by Massive G on Oct 23, 2007 1:42:50 GMT -5
come on dude. Please don't tell me that you think 15 games are of greater importance than 162! I will kindly remind you that performance in those 162 should be a good indicator of success, but it doesn't always work that way. Remember when the Mariners won 116 games? I've said before, I got love for Ortiz, ManRam, and Paps, but if you want to factor in "post season success" than do the whole enchilada. NYY WS championships: 26 BOS WS championships: 1 For the millionth time, I'm not even a Yankees fan, I hate the Yankees. But come on. Does a team with a better run differential have a better chance over a period of time? I would guess yes. If someone has a "get the job done in October when it really counts, when everything is on the line, when the pressure is greater than ever" stat, I would love to see the splits. Seriously. It might be enlightening. You wanna factor in post season success this <illlenium? you know, when maybe 1 or 2 people that were on the Yankees in 2000 are on them in 2007? Number of WS titles for the Boston Red Sox since 2001: 1 Number of WS Titles for NYY since 2011: 0Number of Postseasons the NYY have blown to teams like the D-backs, the Marlins, The White Sox, etc. since 2001: All of them Number of Teams that have blown a 3-0 lead in a playoff best of 7: Just one. The New. York. Yankeess. Where is your Bambino now? Babe Ruth is the greatest baseball player of all time. He's in Cooperstown. And I won't dis the Sox ALCS win in 2004, since I lost 10 g's on it, but come on! You think the antecedent in question is the norm? Then nothing I say will convince you, anyway. In a seven (or especially a FIVE) game series, anything can happen. The Devil Rays could sweep the Sox in 4 a certain number of times. We've seen that. The freaking CARDINALS won the WS last year! If stats or logic won't convince you.. what do you believe, then? Tim McCarver and Joe Buck? I already said, I'm not a Yankees OR a Sox fan. Baseball gives us the gift of many stats and numbers. The least we can do is pay attention to them. Also, you spelled Yankees wrong.
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Post by Insomniac on Oct 23, 2007 1:43:21 GMT -5
Really? Boston has only one one single WS Title in the last 100+ years? Where are you getting this information?
And in the world of sports, where it's more of a "What have you done for me lately" world, those 26 titles are a distant memory.
On the topic of run differential, just look at the D-backs of this year and the Indians of last year. The Diamondbacks had a run differential of minus-20. That only got them a division title and a trip to the NLCS. The Indians last year had a run differential of +90 or so and an expected W/L of 90-72. Instead, they won 78 games and finished 4th.
Stats are only good for so much. You can get caught up in them all you want but they only tell so much of the story. I'm not interested in over-analyzing those regular season numbers.
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Massive G
Hank Scorpio
yo hago esto
Posts: 6,224
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Post by Massive G on Oct 23, 2007 1:49:02 GMT -5
Really? Boston has only one one single WS Title in the last 100+ years? Where are you getting this information? And in the world of sports, where it's more of a "What have you done for me lately" world, those 26 titles are a distant memory. On the topic of run differential, just look at the D-backs of this year and the Indians of last year. The Diamondbacks had a run differential of minus-20. That only got them a division title and a trip to the NLCS. The Indians last year had a run differential of +90 or so and an expected W/L of 90-72. Instead, they won 78 games and finished 4th. Stats are only good for so much. You can get caught up in them all you want but they only tell so much of the story. I'm not interested in over-analyzing those regular season numbers. I don't mean to disrespect, but what else would you rather use? Your gut feeling? Old-timey baseball wisdom? The D-Backs were exposed as weak in a terrible NL this year. They were lucky to make it where they did this year. The Indians severely underperformed last year, and advanced to the ALCS this year with basically the same team. What do you have against statistical analysis? It helps, it doesn't hurt. PECOTA is a good thing. As I already said, baseball gives us the gift of many numbers. The least we can do as fans is pay attention to them.
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Post by Insomniac on Oct 23, 2007 1:57:37 GMT -5
I don't mean to disrespect, but what else would you rather use? Your gut feeling? Old-timey baseball wisdom? What do you have against statistical analysis? It helps, it doesn't hurt. PECOTA is a good thing. As I already said, baseball gives us the gift of many numbers. The least we can do as fans is pay attention to them. I have nothing against statistical analysis, but like I said before, statistics only tell so much of the story. They aren't the most important part of the game. But when I'm looking at the success of a team in a given year, I'm not looking solely at their W/L in the regular season, run differential, Expected W/L, etc. I'll still examine those numbers, but won't give them more importance than they deserve. I'm looking at how far they advance in the playoffs, if they win their LCS, and if they can win the WS.
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Massive G
Hank Scorpio
yo hago esto
Posts: 6,224
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Post by Massive G on Oct 23, 2007 2:05:23 GMT -5
I don't mean to disrespect, but what else would you rather use? Your gut feeling? Old-timey baseball wisdom? What do you have against statistical analysis? It helps, it doesn't hurt. PECOTA is a good thing. As I already said, baseball gives us the gift of many numbers. The least we can do as fans is pay attention to them. I have nothing against statistical analysis, but like I said before, statistics only tell so much of the story. They aren't the most important part of the game. But when I'm looking at the success of a team in a given year, I'm not looking solely at their W/L in the regular season, run differential, Expected W/L, etc. I'll still examine those numbers, but won't give them more importance than they deserve. I'm looking at how far they advance in the playoffs, if they win their LCS, and if they can win the WS. "I'm looking at how far they advance in the playoffs, if they win their LCS, and if they can win the WS". What do you think determines those numbers, a fortune cookie? A magic 8 ball? Why is it so hard to convince people that regular season success should realistically equate to postseason success? Maybe, just maybe, a teams performance in BASEBALL GAMES over the course of 162 games is an indicator of success over 15 games. And as a sticking point, I am forced to point out that NYY = 26 WS BOS = 1 WS If you say you're going to look at it that way, then look at it that way.
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Post by Insomniac on Oct 23, 2007 2:19:21 GMT -5
What do you think determines those numbers, a fortune cookie? A magic 8 ball? Why is it so hard to convince people that regular season success should realistically equate to postseason success? Maybe, just maybe, a teams performance in BASEBALL GAMES over the course of 162 games is an indicator of success over 15 games. And as a sticking point, I am forced to point out that NYY = 26 WS BOS = 1 WS If you say you're going to look at it that way, then look at it that way. I'm not saying it doesn't play some role in determining a team's success in the end, because it does. But it isn't the the final determining factor like you seem to make it out to be. Boston won 5 titles from 1903-1918. You don't want to acknowledge this, but you're willing to acknowledge the 22 WS titles that New York won before the end of the Disco Era. Either you just plain don't know that the Red Sox had success in the early 20th century - with the likes of Cy Young, Babe Ruth, and Tris Speaker - or you're a closet Yankees fan. If you say you're going to look at it that way, then look at it that way. One could look at it that way, 26-6 in favor of New York. One could also look at it as the Yankees haven't won a title this decade, this century, or this millenium. Yeah, I think that's how I'll look at it
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Massive G
Hank Scorpio
yo hago esto
Posts: 6,224
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Post by Massive G on Oct 23, 2007 2:28:49 GMT -5
What do you think determines those numbers, a fortune cookie? A magic 8 ball? Why is it so hard to convince people that regular season success should realistically equate to postseason success? Maybe, just maybe, a teams performance in BASEBALL GAMES over the course of 162 games is an indicator of success over 15 games. And as a sticking point, I am forced to point out that NYY = 26 WS BOS = 1 WS If you say you're going to look at it that way, then look at it that way. I'm not saying it doesn't play some role in determining a team's success in the end, because it does. But it isn't the the final determining factor like you seem to make it out to be. Boston won 5 titles from 1903-1918. You don't want to acknowledge this, but you're willing to acknowledge the 22 WS titles that New York won before the end of the Disco Era. Either you just plain don't know that the Red Sox had success in the early 20th century - with the likes of Cy Young, Babe Ruth, and Tris Speaker - or you're a closet Yankees fan. Alright, 26 to 6. Last 2 years: stl - 78 W - 84 L 725 RS - 829 RA nyy - 94 W-68 L 968 RS-777 RA Stl - 83 W - 78 L 781 RS - 722 RA nyy - 97 W - 65 L 930 RS -767 RA totals NYY WINS: 191 LOSSES: 133 RUNS: 1898 RA: 1544 STL WINS: 161 LOSSES: 162 RUNS: 1506 RA: 1551 DIF: RUNS= NYY +392 RA= STL +7 Difference= 385 runs. Not a little bit. WS= STL= 1 NYY= 0 are the Cards a better team? I'm not a closet anyone fan. Give me a break.
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