biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
Posts: 7,617
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Post by biafra on Nov 30, 2007 21:46:41 GMT -5
I know, my best friend was heart broken; kind of how I would have been had King been killed by that mini van and the Tower never finished... Apparently he left enough notes and instruction to enable the last book to be completed. Yeah, but it still hasn't been confirmed that his wife or whoever is going to let someone finish it. Until I see an announcement of some kind saying that someone IS working on it, I'm going to try to keep my hopes from getting too high. I can sympathize with your friend. I didn't even hear about it until a few weeks ago, months after it had happened. I was talking to my ex and mentioned the series, and she started taunting me with his death. I read somewhere there will 100% for sure be a last book; it just might not be happening very quickly.
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Nov 30, 2007 21:48:02 GMT -5
True, but the Wheel of Time series you really have to start from book one (Which is typical village boys and girls go on to become heroic). I probably need to re-read them again as I originally went trhough them when I was bout 15. If you start at book 6 or 7 your in for a real headache lol. Thats true. There's so many characters that trying to pick it up in the middle just leaves you lost. Or, that's how it is for me anyways. Still, the Wheel of Time series may start off in a typical manner, but I think it's a bit more of a violent and political read than something like the Shannara series (which I'm also a big fan of, by the by). Of course, the whole "goes on to become a hero" part is kinda tainted by the "oh, by the way, you're gonna go insane and die" aspect. Or it was until the last few books, anyways. Yeah those last books were definatly a change of pace to the first few, lol Of course I broke it up by reading a William King Gortrek and Felix book. which has about as much depth as the film Commando, lol. "Here come some goblins! Followed by a highly descriptive chapter on how they killed them all. ;D"
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biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
Posts: 7,617
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Post by biafra on Nov 30, 2007 21:48:19 GMT -5
This from the president of TOR publishing..
[Robert Jordan] left some pretty detailed notes on what would happen. He, Harriet, and [others], all know the endings and secrets. There are both written notes and audio recordings of Jim saying what happened.[...] How or when we’ll see A Memory of Light in published form needs to be worked out. Jim’s death is too recent and the wounds it left too raw to his family to say when the last volume will be completed. Time will provide us with the book we want, and the conclusion the series deserves. We just have to be patient.[3]
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Nov 30, 2007 21:48:44 GMT -5
Thats true. There's so many characters that trying to pick it up in the middle just leaves you lost. Or, that's how it is for me anyways. Still, the Wheel of Time series may start off in a typical manner, but I think it's a bit more of a violent and political read than something like the Shannara series (which I'm also a big fan of, by the by). Of course, the whole "goes on to become a hero" part is kinda tainted by the "oh, by the way, you're gonna go insane and die" aspect. Or it was until the last few books, anyways. Having just started reading the prequel I don't see it being as typical as described...I mean the hero in most books probably isn't mortally feared because a prophecy deems he will have to break the world in order to have a chance to save it... Agreed. While there's definitely the standard "boy lives in rural area, boy goes on quest" type of thing, which is how a lot of stories seem to start out, I think the actual result of that quest (the revelation that he's screwed) and the fact that the story really picks off after that point makes it something that someone without much of an interest in standard hero stories may want to read.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Nov 30, 2007 21:52:26 GMT -5
Oh, and back on topic... the Song of Fire and Ice series by George R.R. Martin might interest the original poster. There isn't any magic, but there's a ton of war, politics, and violence. I won't say more, though, 'cause some aspects are surprising as hell. I nearly overturned a table at the cafe I was reading at when I got to one particular event in the second or third book.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Nov 30, 2007 21:59:13 GMT -5
My avatar is from a scene in Dragons of a Winter Night, the second book of the original Dragonlance trilogy. I can wholeheartedly recommend the first trilogy (Dragons of an Autumn Twilight and Dragons of a Spring Dawning are the other books that complete the Chronicles Trilogy). I also enjoyed the Legends trilogy (Time of the Twins, War of the Twins, and Test of the Twins), as well as a collection of short stories titled The Second Generation.
The best books that I read in the Dragonlance settings are a couple of later novels. Dragons of a Summer Flame, while long, was absolutely mesmerizing. I also thoroughly enjoyed The Doom Brigade.
There are dozens of other novels in the Dragonlance setting. Some of them I cannot comment on as I have not read them. Some of them do not even remotely compare to the core novels (Chronicles Trilogy, Legends Trilogy, and Dragons of a Summer Flame). Some are quality works in their own right (like Doom Brigade was). I suppose it is a matter of personal taste.
I will say this; if you are looking for fantasy novels to provide ideas to use as a DM in D&D, Dragonlance has several paperback collections of short stories that are excellent. I've stolen ideas from them to great fanfare from my players in the past. It could work for you too.
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Nov 30, 2007 22:04:12 GMT -5
Obviously lord of the rings should be mentioned, but I will assume you have read that. (If not ... erm ... buy a copy!)
I assume by Fantasy we are sticking with Dragons, swords, wizards etc .... otherwise we can tangent off into Sci-fi if you want.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
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Post by AriadosMan on Nov 30, 2007 22:19:47 GMT -5
Yeah those last books were definatly a change of pace to the first few, lol Of course I broke it up by reading a William King Gortrek and Felix book. which has about as much depth as the film Commando, lol. "Here come some goblins! Followed by a highly descriptive chapter on how they killed them all. ;D" And yet they're still better written than Eragon/Inheritance series.
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Nov 30, 2007 22:42:52 GMT -5
By reading this thread I will definately try out His Dark Materials. The library has it so it shouldn't be a problem.
I've read the first 3 Shannara books by Terry Brooks and it's got that whole quest thing I'm bored with. Does it get better from book four on out?
Wheel of Time was actually my first fantasy so I weren't tired of the whole young mans quest storyline yet. But I gave up during book 6 as it went downhill.
I've read Turtledove's worldwar books and they are awesome from beginning to end.
Dragonlance seems quite interesting so I might try that.
Someone mentioned a Song of Ice and Fire and lets just say I can't f'n wait for the next book. I'm seriously hooked.
My favorite series of all is the Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind. Sure it had the hero on a quest thing but that was dispensed with soon enough.
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Post by Jason Todd Grisham on Nov 30, 2007 22:49:42 GMT -5
...that is NOT about a young man/boy who lives in a village and ends up going on a quest and becoming a hero. Seems every book I find is about that. That's because fantasy writers either 1. not very original or 2. read too much Joseph Campbell. I recommend The Dark is Rising by Susan Cooper. Very good books, underrated, and poisoned by a piece of shit movie. A word of caution for His Dark Materials, while Philip Pullman has talent, in my opinion the experience is ruined when it becomes a thinly disguised polemic. It's like His Dark Materials is nothing more than Pullman's own anti-Narnia rant. Which is a shame.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Nov 30, 2007 23:05:41 GMT -5
By reading this thread I will definately try out His Dark Materials. The library has it so it shouldn't be a problem. I've read the first 3 Shannara books by Terry Brooks and it's got that whole quest thing I'm bored with. Does it get better from book four on out? Wheel of Time was actually my first fantasy so I weren't tired of the whole young mans quest storyline yet. But I gave up during book 6 as it went downhill. I've read Turtledove's worldwar books and they are awesome from beginning to end. Dragonlance seems quite interesting so I might try that. Someone mentioned a Song of Ice and Fire and lets just say I can't f'n wait for the next book. I'm seriously hooked. My favorite series of all is the Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind. Sure it had the hero on a quest thing but that was dispensed with soon enough. Personally, I enjoy the Shannara books. Particularly the latest series. But, if you want to avoid books featuring a young male hero going on a quest, you shouldn't bother with reading anymore of them. The Sword of Truth series and the Wheel of Time series always struck me as being very similar. And yeah, the Song of Ice and Fire series rocks. Pisses me off sometimes, but in a good way.
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on Nov 30, 2007 23:26:52 GMT -5
I like J. Gregory Keyes (I may have screwed up his name), so I'll recommend his short Blackgod Series (Waterborn, and Blackgod). While it does have a sort of cliche start, it does benefit in that it's just two novels so it never loses momentum, no one is saving the world, and ambition and pride are really big character points in most of his books. Also he tends to flip between characters, and in the series after this first one he does add more poltical layers.
Which leads into Age of Unreason, which is 5 or 6 books, also by Keyes, about Newton having figured out Alchemy, and what that entails. It's an interesting/fun alternate-history and fantasy book. There is world saving, but it's different enough that you can forgive it.
Keyes is working on a third series, which he's working on book three. The Briar King, and The Charnel Prince, so far (forgive me on the titles, I am trying to remember). More stereotypical than his other books, he puts more into the politics this time around, though Unreason had a good deal of it. This one has a lot more plot threads too, but like Unreason he's become a bit more epic, so he's building, but his novels aren't huge.
Jim Butcher's Dresden Files. Come on, a wiseass wizard in Chicago. Detective stories, aimed at pulpy goodness. Follows in the pattern of Laurel K. Hamilton's stuff, only with 99.99% less sex. Not earth shattering, but entertaining.
Liz Williams' Detective Inspector Chen novels. Sci-fi/Chinese Mythology/fantasy/detective. It's kind of a trip, but once you adjust it's pretty damn cool.
Honorable Mention: Fable. It's a comic book, and it's amazing. Read it. Read it now.
Commentary: I didn't really like the Dragonlance novels. It didn't help my other DnD nerds in Middle and High School praised them to no end, but I gave them a chance, and found that the main characters were really unlikeable.
Wheel of Time... I really, really think that the stories started going nowhere in the middle. It has the biggest second act ever. I gave up after 6 or 7 or something. When the series it completed I'll read it.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,373
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Dec 1, 2007 0:21:36 GMT -5
Commentary: I didn't really like the Dragonlance novels. It didn't help my other DnD nerds in Middle and High School praised them to no end, but I gave them a chance, and found that the main characters were really unlikeable. It's a shame that you did not enjoy the books. How far did you get? The first trilogy ends with some of the characters growing up in the end, while poor Sturm turns out to be more significant much later on. The second trilogy, as you might imagine, focuses on the Majere brothers. Caramon was most definitely not a very likable character in the first trilogy, but that was by design in order to set up the second trilogy. I will say one thing; Dragons of a Summer Flame is better, IMO, than the trilogy that your friends grew up with. Also, most of the characters in Doom Brigade were memorable enough that I used the characters as NPCs when I DMed.
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Post by Cucumber Jones:The Walkin Dude on Dec 1, 2007 0:45:25 GMT -5
The Dark Tower series is quality, not to mention different from the norm.
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Post by Palatial Regalia on Dec 1, 2007 8:09:38 GMT -5
Knight of the Black Rose, Dragonlance's Lord Soth gets whisked away to Ravenloft.
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ookkie
Unicron
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Post by ookkie on Dec 1, 2007 11:25:48 GMT -5
For the love of all that is Holy, I was going to freak out if we got to page three without mention of George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series. Happily, I was spared that reaction thanks to the good folks on page two.
I've read a lot of fantasy in my time... Robert Jordan (RIP - too bad the series ended the way it did after such a promising start); Terry Goodkind (might as well be RIP); J.R.R. Tolkien (classic); Tad Williams (Good, but his Otherland series was better); Robin Hobbe (good stuff)...
For me though, George R. R. Martin is the most astounding fantasy author of recent times... his work in ASOIAF has made me incredibly interested in his earlier sci-fi/horror work, and I've been collecting a lot of his pre-Game of Thrones-fame short stories (Sandkings is phenomenal). I'd highly recommend picking up the "Dreamsongs" volumes 1 and 2 currently in bookstores, which are compilations of his early work.
The best thing about Martin is that he creates believable, complex and likeable characters. Even characters that you learn to hate from one person's POV have redeeming qualities when you see things from their point of view, which makes the books all the more rich. And best of all, Martin builds up his characters so much that you establish strong bonds with them... and sometimes they get killed off unexpectedly. He is a master story-teller.
Now if only he'd get Dance of Dragons finished.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Dec 1, 2007 13:55:16 GMT -5
Towing Jehovah bs James Morrow.
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on Dec 1, 2007 18:41:37 GMT -5
Commentary: I didn't really like the Dragonlance novels. It didn't help my other DnD nerds in Middle and High School praised them to no end, but I gave them a chance, and found that the main characters were really unlikeable. It's a shame that you did not enjoy the books. How far did you get? The first trilogy ends with some of the characters growing up in the end, while poor Sturm turns out to be more significant much later on. The second trilogy, as you might imagine, focuses on the Majere brothers. Caramon was most definitely not a very likable character in the first trilogy, but that was by design in order to set up the second trilogy. I will say one thing; Dragons of a Summer Flame is better, IMO, than the trilogy that your friends grew up with. Also, most of the characters in Doom Brigade were memorable enough that I used the characters as NPCs when I DMed. Tanis. Tasselhoff. Caramon. Raistlin. Goldmoon. Hell, pretty much EVERY character except Sturm, the pincipaled jerk. I've tried other stuff by Hicks and Weisman, and everytime I just... dislike it. It's primarily their style. I guess that's the best way of putting it. But then I've drifted away from more generic fantasy.
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Post by joecro on Dec 1, 2007 21:37:04 GMT -5
ok so i've been on amazon literally all day looking at fantasy books to get myself for christmas here is my list thus far :
The Abhorsen Trilogy Box Set J.R.R. Tolkien Boxed Set (The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings) His Dark Materials Trade Paper Boxed Set (Golden Compass, Subtle Knife, Amber Spyglass)
what else should i put in there?
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biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
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Post by biafra on Dec 1, 2007 21:40:05 GMT -5
ok so i've been on amazon literally all day looking at fantasy books to get myself for christmas here is my list thus far : The Abhorsen Trilogy Box Set J.R.R. Tolkien Boxed Set (The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings) His Dark Materials Trade Paper Boxed Set (Golden Compass, Subtle Knife, Amber Spyglass) what else should i put in there? Try The Dark Tower series. It's may not fit snuggly in the fantasy genre but fans of the genre would like it.
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