Why I cry...

[Old School Heel mark4Morishima]

I got a little lost in the write-up. Let's break it down.

We begin with the friends become enemies angle between A and B.
This should end in a grudge match.
But the ending is forestalled.

Then we get the first two parts of an old three-part blowoff between A and C.
This should go two dirty wins for the heel and then the faces wins clean in a gimmick match.
But the ending is forestalled.

Then we have a stable feud between A's stable and C's stable.
This is great for building lots of motivated match permutations.
But unlike the other two angles, it has no obvious ending.

So far we have three angles built up but no climax.

Now the clincher for all three angles: an abbreviated blowoff sequence between A and B.
First a dirty win for A. Then a clean win for B in a gimmick match.

Underlying all this, you've got the old whoring an injury for audience sympathy trick.

When you strip out the backstage tomfoolery, that's all it is: a couple old skool formulae strung together. The backstage tomfoolery keeps it fresh in the audience's mind and keeps all three angles intertwined. Heyman's booking style has more out-of-ring brawling than I like, but the bones of it are solid and venerable.

I don't agree that wrestling should be about telling great stories. It's still basically a carny/con-man affair. And I think there's something beautiful in that; just as beautiful as a great novel or movie, but not at all the same. It's about working a small number of time-tested hustles in the most artful way possible.

If WWE Creative fails these days, it's because they try too hard to be original. Since wrestling angles are basically con tricks, they don't stand up to close scrutiny. You have to either move through them or put them on the back burner.

But take the Cena/Michaels feud. Since Creative mistakenly thinks that angles = storylines, they think they can built up this protracted grandiose psychodrama over will Shawn Michaels turn or not. Introduce all kind of twists and wrinkles from Hollywood Writing 101 to make it complicate and develop. But it just makes it seem forced and phony.

[Kae]

I may be in the minority here, but I'm pretty happy with the state of the WWE at the moment. RAW could be better -- there's a problem with Michaels and Cena are the only worthwhile match on a card most times -- but Smackdown and ECW have been putting on consistently solid shows lately.* Apart from some overbooking in the main events, both of them have focussed very much on the in-ring action with just enough backstory to make the match-ups compelling. It's felt very much like classic booking to me, and I've been pleased with it.

* I didn't watch the original ECW, so, while I understand why people may feel the current version is digging its corpse out of the grave to piss on it, it's not so much an issue for me.

[Phosphor Glow]

I haven't read the whole thread, and I'm kinda tired so I have no intention of doing so right now...but I'll just say this.

I am rather satisfied with the WWE right now. It's not as good as it has been, but it is also not by any means bad. I rather like it...and it keeps me tuned in every week to see what happens.

[Stevie J]

In the end the best storylines don't need to be written. It's the very fact that so many Hollywood hacks and Attitude Era rejects believe there needs to be a formula that moves from A to B to C (or in Russo's case A to C to B) that causes stagnation. Improvisation and instinct are everything - an attack by Funk on Flair, a shoot from Austin on Roberts, a warning by McMahon to Austin, and so on. It is in these moments that great characters are born, not made. Great characters in turn create compelling stories, and the closer we feel to these people emotionally the better their matches will be. The Matt Cappotelli story can be scrutinized but it can't be scripted - he was the right man at the right time and everybody just followed their instincts and said "He's the resiliant underdog - he can be beaten up but not beaten down." Simple works. When you start throwing in absuive parents and murders and necrophilia and love triangle swerves and get whackier than the whackiest soap opera it all falls apart. It doesn't have to be as simple as "you hate me I hate you" but it doesn't have to be much more complicated.

[jsinde]

What, you guys shittin me? Wrestling ain't real to you guys I guess but you need to realize that Matt Cappotelli wasn't able to wrestle because he got sick which saved him from Cappotelli hating smarks. (Believe me I can figure it out) Today's WWE would be so much better if they did really put even more humor and funny storylines that will crack me up and make me laugh until I can't even breathe because it is so funny.
As well as having John Cena doing more fun things and not having to do so much wrestling based stuff. That is boring , hjs babyface character/persona isn't needing to do things like what he did in the match where he was hitting his shoulder and yelling or stupid things like talking back to the ref. That was lameassed and stupid, non-entertaining and pathetic actually, not to mention it isn't him being himself anyway or being who he really is in the first place. He is a bodybuilder, he is respectful, humorous, loyal , likeable as well as polite and a really nice guy. WWE is not entertaining to me presently.
Yes... they do need to keep John Cena as a face. But have HHH,HB-gay,Edge,etc... as heels. *Cough,cough,cough..mark..cough*

John Cena and Shawn Michaels matches suck because first off you get John Cena having to do all the work when it is supposed to be 50% of the work in a match is done by the babyface, that means-- John Cena. While the other 50% of the work is done in the match by the heel HB - gay. The real reason that RAW sucks is they are over-emphasizing the wrestling: READ-- BORING STUFF and having John Cena and the guys he is doing a match with being more wrestling based. Needs to be more ENTERTAINMENT BASED to make it at least be INTERESTING! Besides, John Cena is better being more of a babyface. The gimmick/persona he has as a tweener/heel type is lameassed,boring,non-entertaining. Fact is....reason RAW sucks is they are messing up. You don't put heels like HB-Gay, or Edge....who have backstabbed people a lot of times and are bullies and manipulative sons-a- b***ches...over a babyface like John Cena...or let them heel bastards win matches. That's LAME!! John Cena should be put over as a 100% babyface and have him appeal to the sense of fun in people. The sense of comedy. I am completely dissatisfied w/how the storyline is because John Cena is supposed to do a 10-15 minute match which will hold people's interest and get them to want to watch matches. No, matches shouldn't last like 40-60 minutes. That is non-entertaining and dull.
John Cena's in ring persona/character as he was on RAW this past Monday wasn't like him at all when HBK forced him to be heel-ish. That was dumb. HB-Gay was supposed to be the one going after John Cena, who should have blocked HB-showoff's moves and countered with his own. The moves off the top rope from John Cena are a bit much as well. Let him actually be more of a face who gets to goof around and do moves like he has done previously when he was a babyface but was The Prototype and do like The Protoplex,Protobomb,dropkick,and some power based moves. Get announcers like Jim Coronette who can get people psyched about matches to call them and don't have matches last forever. Have John Cena cutting funny promos,smiliing,not having stupid sayings on his merch...allow him to be funny and actually doing funny skits,promos that are lighthearted and not wrestling based or feud based or whatever. The way WWE is right now sucks badly and definitely needs to be improved. Let John Cena gain about...9-10 lbs. and look healthier and if he wants to be cut up looking and have muscular definition that's awesome as heck.. though he needs to and is supposed to actually weigh more anyway. He is supposed to weigh like, 255-256 lbs. you know. WWE RAW is really bad like it is now with being too wrestling-oriented and needs more funny,comical skits and promos from John Cena as well. WWE... they need to be having John Cena and Randy Orton siding with each other as faces and helping one another out as well. Or even have John Cena getting help from more guys who are babyfaces but not having the heels dominate too much or have too much control either. The stupid thing about the match between John Cena and HB Gay is that they had HB gay look to harm John and practically hit his shoulder into the ringpost...stupid,stupid,stupid...I don't like that garbage and that isn't the way a match is supposed to be. They should have had John Cena see what was coming up and stop himself from running into the ringpost or reverse it or something. As well as not being or having to actually harm the other guy. That would be stupid, non-entertaining or impressive at all. They are supposed to pretend to harm one another not really do so. Besides, promos by John Cena that last like an hour or an hour and a half are completely boss!
Don't introduce twists and turns to make things more complicated or to have more in-ring action that lasts too long like the John Cena/HB Gay RAW match did. A few minutes is fine. They are boring in the ring and thing is that John Cena's in-ring persona/character isn't accruately portraying him properly with the underdog thing. Have him be the face who at least gives people reason to tune in and want to watch the show. Have him be a full babyface and doing promos and such. He shouldn't be flirting with Divas or announcers or whatever, he should be the guy fans want to tune in to see the show next week because they are wanting to find out what he is going to say and will enjoy it because he said it and laugh so hard they can 't breathe. It is not supposed to be John Cena vs HB gay on the card. Matches between them flat out suck.. Michaels doesn't even do anything in the match and I hate his guts. He is doing his job as a heel though...that much I will admit, because I flat out can't stand him. Not to mention that he has backstabbed John Cena and has tried to force him to be heel/tweener. Edge has backstabbed Randy Orton and has cheated to win matches more often than not. That is dishonorable and cowardly as it is.

[Old School Heel mark4Morishima]

kae said:

I may be in the minority here, but I'm pretty happy with the state of the WWE at the moment. RAW could be better -- there's a problem with Michaels and Cena are the only worthwhile match on a card most times --

And they are on the card most times. That's the other main problem. Every goddamn matchup gets run into the ground ad nauseum.

jsinde said:

they need to be having John Cena and Randy Orton siding with each other as faces and helping one another out as well. Or even have John Cena getting help from more guys who are babyfaces but not having the heels dominate too much or have too much control either.

You have a lot of stuff in your post, sir, but this point is good. A stable fight would have broken up the tedium of Cena and Michaels over and over and over again. Ditto for Lashley and Umaga, which is being run into the ground even more.

[texaswhopper]

Ahh man I thought this thread was about Terminator 2. The bit about crying that the terminator and John talk about.

"You know when it hurts."

Oh well.

[bjboston]

I've been a non-stop WWF/E fan for over 20 years now. Right now, I'd give the product in general a B. Certainly not the best era, but by FAR not the worst. They have a lot of young talent and the next year or so could be very good.

Remember - Diesel vs. King Mabel headlined Summerslam in '95. That's all I'm saying.

[Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone]

For every one really good story WWE tells, there are about 50 stories that are either ended before the story arc completes, or were just such crappy stories to begin with that I didn't care.

I thought that Mickie and Trish had a great storyline with the whle obsessed fan thing. It had a start, a finish, plot points, plot twists, and it truly was a coherent story and not just a feud. And unlike many storylines, the plotholes and inconsistencies were kept to an absolute minimum. It seemed like they actually thought the entire thing out in advance, which made it awesome.

I thought another really fun story was the Kane and Lita marriage thing. Unlike the Mickie/Trish storyline though, the Kane and Lita was filled with plot holes, inconsistencies, and things that were flat out just changed on us. But even with that, it was a really funny storyline that was so bad that it was good. It was campy. I am probably one of the few people who actually LIKED the Kane-Lita wedding.

[Chainsaw]

doinksdoodoo said:

I'm so sad that WWE has basically bottomed out on me. I've been a fan since the Attitude Era and perhaps I was just spoiled with it. Although I have backtracked through the 80s and loved it as well. I just can't say the same about now. I think WWE today is the worst thing on TV and I'm more ashamed to be a wrestling fan than I was once wrestling became uncool again. But what kills me the most, is what could be. What could be coming on my TV screen, and what some people have had the ability to enjoy.

Now I'm not going to give Heyman a verbal blowjob in this topic. I'm not saying if he was brought up the creative team that he would turn WWE around. All I'm saying is that I wish WWE creative could create compelling television like what I'm about to post. Whether it be from Heyman, Steph, Hayes, Lagana, Meltzer, whatever, I don't give a crap. I just think the worst thing that's happened to WWE, and pro-wrestling in general, is that they aren't using writers who know how to make a compelling feud, like this:

Head booker Paul Heyman had a problem. He had a red-hot tag team in the Thrillseekers. They had just won a match over MNM to determine the number one contenders for the tag titles. In addition, whoever got the pinfall would become the number one contender for the heavyweight title. Cappotelli and Jeter had pinned Mercury and Nitro simultaneously, so no one knew who the contender was.

Then Matt Cappotelli broke his leg at a house show.

The next week, the situation was addressed as an emotional Cappotelli came out on crutches and did an interview with Dean Hill. He explained that current heavyweight champion Brent Albright (Gunner Scott) had offered them a three-way match and implied that the match would take place when he received medical clearance in roughly eight weeks.

That wasn't good enough for Jeter. He grabbed the microphone and said that he wasn't willing to wait.

That brought out Albright, who offered Jeter an immediate title shot. At Cappotelli's urging, Jeter accepted. With the help of Ken Anderson (Mr. Kennedy) and Daniel Puder (who were already feuding with Albright), Jeter wound up winning the match and the belt. Afterward, Jeter came down to Cappotelli, who was ringside and thrilled about his partner's win.

In a great moment, Jeter said, "I guess I don't need you anymore" and blasted Cappotelli with the title belt. Jeter kept pounding Cappotelli and finally mocked the Thrillseekers' motto (We ride together, die together, Thrillseekers for life) by saying, "I ride alone, I die alone, I'm Johnny Jeter, OVW Champion for life."

The next episode saw Maria finding Albright backstage. He was looking for Jeter.

When Jeter finally arrived, Albright coldly told him that nobody was going to hurt him, because Albright was watching his back until he won the belt back later in the night. At that point Cappotelli came in and threw his crutches at Jeter while screaming at him. Albright simply picked Cappotelli up and carried him out of the room.

The main event that night saw Jeter taking on Albright with Cappotelli sitting at ringside. When Albright locked his finisher (the Crowbar) on Jeter, Jeter made it to the ropes and slid out of the ring after the bell. Jeter took advantage of the opportunity to superkick Cappotelli and grab his chair. He went back into the ring and clocked Albright with the chair for the DQ, then returned to the fallen Cappotelli. Jeter went berserk, blasting the fallen Cappotelli with vicious chair shot after chair shot. Color commentator Al Snow finally jumped up and grabbed Jeter to hold him back as the locker room emptied. The locker room split as some of the wrestlers supported Jeter and others gathered around the fallen and bloodied Cappotelli. They hustled Jeter out, and then rushed Cappotelli out of the building to a waiting ambulance.

The next show opened with a recap of the previous week, which brought out Jeter for an unscheduled interview. He talked about how he was the champion, but everybody was still talking about the cripple as Snow and Hill grew more and more disgusted. Jeter then said that he would not be giving any more shots at the title to Albright. Albright came out and said that the only reason he didn't attack Jeter was because he knew Jeter would use the injury as an excuse. Jeter shoved him and the fight was on. Again the locker room emptied and both men were separated. Elijah Burke had had enough and got in Jeter's face, challenging him for the title. An apologetic Jeter said that he'd caused enough trouble and he was leaving… at least until Burke turned his back. Jeter blasted him with the belt and was pulled away again.

Maria later found out backstage that Burke had been knocked out and they were taking him to the hospital for observation. The trainer then noted that his opinion may not count for much, but something needed to be done about Jeter.

At the end of the show, Cappotelli had called in from the hospital to give an update on his condition. Jeter strolled out and unplugged the phone. Jeter again pointed out that he was the champion and Cappotelli was nothing but a cripple when Dean Hill muttered something. Jeter demanded to know what Hill had said. Hill grabbed the mike, yelled "I called you an jerk!" and stormed off the set after shooting Jeter the finger.

Jeter turned to the cameraman and asked him if he believed what had just happened. In response, the cameraman put down the camera, echoed Hill's final statement, and walked out. He turned to Snow and asked if he had a problem. Al just stood up and started taking off his watch.

Then Albright came out from the locker room, dragging the seven or eight wrestlers who were trying to hold him back. Jeter grabbed Hill's chair and blasted Albright with it. Albright fell to the ground unconscious. In response, everyone else started toward Jeter. Jeter hit the ring and soon found it surrounded by unfriendly faces.

The other wrestlers were starting to climb into the ring when OVW owner Danny Davis came out from the back and ordered the wrestlers, Al, and even the other cameraman to leave. As they did, Davis climbed into the ring and started berating Jeter, even repeatedly slapping him in the face. Jeter tried to defend himself and Davis sent him to the ground with a punch. Jeter grabbed the title belt and clocked Davis with it and then started whipping him with the belt.

The next week opened with Dean Hill apologizing for his language the week before and even said that he'd gone so far as to send a letter of resignation to Danny Davis.

It didn't take long for Davis to come out and order everyone in the locker room (except Jeter) into the ring. Davis first refused Hill's resignation by telling him that he'd quit as well if Hill left. Davis then explained that he couldn't fire Jeter, but he could make his life a living nightmare. Davis then announced a battle royal for a shot at Jeter's title later in the night. He then ordered the bell rung to start the battle royal. The winner was Deuce Shade (Jimmy Snuka Jr., AKA Deuce from Smackdown).

Cappotelli called the show again later in the night and informed everyone he'd be back in about six and a half weeks and that he had gotten his stitches (from Jeter's chair attack) removed. Jeter then came out and got into a shouting match with Cappotelli.

After defeating Deuce Shade with a superkick, Jeter said that he'd drive anywhere to fight Cappotelli. Cappotelli then informed him that he didn't have to go far because he was in the parking lot! Jeter ran outside and found Cappotelli on top of a car waiting for him. The locker room emptied to keep them apart and Elijah Burke took advantage of the situation to attack Jeter. The other wrestlers pulled Burke off and then Cappotelli joined the fracas. When the dust settled, Jeter was gone and Cappotelli was screaming for him to come back out.

The next show saw Jeter, (now-renamed) Kennedy, and Puder talking to Nigel McGuinness, Paul Burchall, and Da Beast (Cryme Tyme's Shad Gaspard). Jeter offered any of them a title shot if they won their matches against Elijah Burke, Deuce Shade, and Brent Albright.

Burke won his match against McGuinness. Then Shade beat Burchall. Finally, Albright beat Da Beast.

The next episode saw Dean Hill reading a letter from Danny Davis. In it, Davis noted that since Jeter's alliance with Puder and Kennedy had come out, they could have a match. That night there would be a number one contender's match between Puder and Kennedy.

Kennedy made a quick response by turning down the match and trying to smooth things over with Jeter. Puder had a different opinion and quickly accepted the match.

In the main event, Puder overcame Jeter's interference to defeat Mr. Kennedy for the number one contendership. After he won, his corner men (Johnny and Jason Riggs) hoisted him onto their shoulders and carried him around the ring. In response, Jeter came off the top rope and kicked Puder to the mat.

On the next show, Jeter took on Nick Nemeth (Nicky of the Spirit Squad) for the title. Thanks to Mr. Kennedy, Jeter retained his belt. Afterward, Puder attacked Jeter.

The following episode's main event saw Puder's shot. The Riggs brothers were soon ejected for interference (actually, they were trying to keep Kennedy from interfering). Puder finally locked Kennedy in his Key Lock submission finisher, then turned and got superkicked by Jeter and then pinned. The Riggs brothers ran back out when Jeter grabbed a chair and quickly got beaten down. When Jeter turned around, however, Cappotelli was in the ring! Mr. Kennedy went after Cappotelli and had a crutch broken over his back for the effort. Jeter then took Cappotelli to the ground and began attacking his broken leg. That emptied the locker room as everyone else tried to break up the fight.

Maria opened the next show at a press conference for the Brent Albright vs. Ken Doane (Kenny Dykstra) rematch. She introduced Cappotelli who began talking about getting revenge on Jeter when he was suddenly superkicked from off-screen. Jeter came into the picture and began beating Cappotelli bloody with the title belt. That was Mr. Kennedy's cue to introduce Jeter as the winner of the "first ever press conference podium match."

Maria tried to get in an update a little later as Cappotelli had refused to go to the hospital, only to be interrupted by Jeter and Kennedy, who shared a few thoughts of their own.

A week later, Jeter and Kennedy were having fun in the locker room at Cappotelli's expense. They mocked him and then Jeter left. Kennedy took the opportunity to do his introduction, and Cappotelli snuck up behind him, imitating Kennedy's introduction the entire time. When Kennedy finished, Cappotelli attacked, beating him bloody with his crutches. Afterward, Cappotelli introduced himself to the camera to mock Kennedy's intros.

Matt had a big announcement on the next episode. He announced that in two weeks he would be facing Jeter for the title.

Jeter's feelings to that news were as expected. First he ran to Jillian Hall. He talked to her about all the work she'd done with JBL on Smackdown, and asked if she could take care of his Cappotelli problem. She said she couldn't.

Later, Jeter convinced Burchall to serve as his bodyguard. Burchall soon got annoyed as someone kept knocking on his locker room door and announcing themselves as room service. When that didn't work, they tried saying special delivery. When that didn't work, they said, "Land shark." Intrigued, Burchall opened the door and was attacked by a crutch-wielding Cappotelli.

Jeter closed the show with his thoughts about facing Cappotelli.

The October 29th main event saw Jeter and Cappotelli facing off for the belt. To help emphasize how important the match was, Hill and Snow announced that the TV station had agreed to allow the match to run commercial free, and they also had extra time if the match went long.

After 25 minutes, Cappotelli was clutching his just-healed leg and managed to drop Jeter with a superkick. The referee had counted to two when Mr. Kennedy pulled him out of the ring and slid the title belt to Jeter. Cappotelli superkicked Kennedy, and then was blasted by Jeter with the belt. Jeter got the pin and celebrated with Kennedy afterward.

The following episode saw a chair-wielding Cappotelli searching the backstage area for Jeter. He finally laid out Rene Dupree with the chair.

The next week saw the Jeter/Cappotelli rematch. This time they had a best two out of three falls match. Jeter quickly grabbed the first fall, and then Cappotelli evened it up. The match ended when Cappotelli superkicked Jeter in mid-air and got the win and the title.

-http://wrestling.insidepulse.com/articles/64151/2007/01/24/greating-gimmicks-of-the-past-johnny-jeter-vs-matt-cappotelli.html

That alone is a more interesting title scene than I have seen in years. Probably more interesting than even most of the Attitude Era. I just wish that wrestling promotors, and the WWE in particular, would take a cue from these storylines and feuds and learn how to book around human emotion, and create meaningful reasons for us to care. Right now, why should I care about the WWE? Because Cena can dominate the roster? Because Taker can dominate the roster? Because Lashley can dominate the roster? I need substance to my wrestling. I want to care why these two guys are fighting. I already know it's fake, but if you give me a compelling story it takes that whole aura away. If you can play to my emotions, it doesn't matter how scripted it is.

Movies are scripted as well, but as a man after watching 300 I identified with the pride and honor of the Spartans, and after watching Hannibal Rising I felt bad for the character. As a guy (and I've heard many people say this, mainly comedians), there is a special kind of bond between a character and a man when a story is told correctly. Try telling me after a Kung-Fu movie you don't come out of the theatre thinking you're a third degree black belt, and that you wish you could fight with honor and respect too.

That is the same kind of feeling wrestling -- as a fake sport -- needs to project, and stories like Heyman's 2005 OVW feud work just the same way. It's just a shame that WWE has to be so dumbed down when there is defintely people and ideas out there that can be easily applied to make the show so much better.

I concur. This is why I had such high hopes for ECW when they announced that they were bringing it back, just on the strength of the Cappotelli/Jeter feud. I was riveted to the OVW reports while Heyman was booking things, and couldn't wait for it to come back. Then, in short order, the WWE got gunshy and added WWE wrestlers to the ECW matches for ONS 2, Heyman was pushed into a role of on-air heel talent, and then everything fell apart with RVD and Sabu's arrests, the D2D debacle, and Heyman getting sent home without even a whiff of the potential he could have brought to a revitalized ECW. I feel that if they had just brought OVW to TV with Heyman as booker as ECW, we would have one of the better feds on TV. And that's why I feel that Vince neutered it. He was afraid it would make his regular shows look weak in comparison, IMO.

[heyguesswhatidid]

Why do people love the attitude era? Lets pop in a tape of an attitude era PPV


Golddust Vs. Bluedust, this should be funny, oh wait, it just sucked.

Holly Vs. Snow: Hardcore title. Fun garbage match, the outside stuff was cool, would've hated to be there live though.

Big Boss Man Vs. Mideon. Wow, this sucked.

Owen and Jeff Vs. Henry and D'lo: Tag titles. Very boring and I really enjoy 3 guys in this match.

Val Venis Vs. Shamrock W/Billy Gunn as special referree: IC Title. Decent match, nothing special

Kane and Chyna Vs. HHH and X-Pac. Boring as hell.

Mankind Vs. The Rock: WWE Title Last man standing match. They keep saying "There must be a winner" We get a draw. Very good match with a god awful ending.

Austin Vs. McMahon: Steel Cage Match. The definitive attitude era feud. Great McMahon spotfest but no different than his recent stuff with HBK.

So, what's so good about this era?? Oh, and Wrestlemania 15 is one of the worst mania's ever, it feels like any other PPV.

[krazysane]

babys cry

[Big Daddy B]

mysterydriver said:

They need less "Yes-Men" and more "Listen, Vince, That is stupid"

Vince is finding out that he has too many yes-men lately, such as the Koslov Incident and the trouble of DSW.

So, who knows? Maybe some things can be turned around soon.

Sounds like a job for Mick Foley!

[Kae]

And they are on the card most times. That's the other main problem. Every goddamn matchup gets run into the ground ad nauseum.

I do agree with that to a certain degree.

ECW honestly seems to have about 12 people on its roster, and could use a few more to allow for more permutations. I get that it's an hour show, and I prefer it to the clusterf*** booking of TNA, but they need more than two stables and Lashley~! Nonetheless, the storyline with Punk and the New Breed has me interested, and could lead to some potentially great matches. Plus, if they have some version of the Second City Saints in the future (which doesn't seem unlikely), it could inject new life into it.

Smackdown seems to have the greatest depth in their roster and are able to keep matches fairly fresh. The midcard matches are almost always interesting, because they have enough people in that bracket to put on any number of great matches. They need some thought about main eventers, but, eh, they're obviously building Kennedy and MVP up for that purpose. I'd move Matt Hardy up too.

RAW, to me, is the weakest. It needs more credible main-eventers, and it needs to stop squashing its mid-card every time there is a PPV to which to build. I get the psychology behind a tune-up match, but that's what jobbers are for.

RAW actually infuriates me with how it wastes its talent. It could have such a freaking good tag-team division, such a solid midcard, such a strong main event slot, potentially a great women's division if they called more of the better wrestlers up from OVW, but it just throws it away every week. Without thinking too hard about it, I could book 5 solid matches per show. That said, I do love my Smackdown and EC-Dub.

[Slammywinner]

I agree...by the way, I'm looking to get an emo CD today. Any suggestions?

[Gillberg: 0-175]

heyguesswhatidid said:

Why do people love the attitude era? Lets pop in a tape of an attitude era PPV


Golddust Vs. Bluedust, this should be funny, oh wait, it just sucked.

Holly Vs. Snow: Hardcore title. Fun garbage match, the outside stuff was cool, would've hated to be there live though.

Big Boss Man Vs. Mideon. Wow, this sucked.

Owen and Jeff Vs. Henry and D'lo: Tag titles. Very boring and I really enjoy 3 guys in this match.

Val Venis Vs. Shamrock W/Billy Gunn as special referree: IC Title. Decent match, nothing special

Kane and Chyna Vs. HHH and X-Pac. Boring as hell.

Mankind Vs. The Rock: WWE Title Last man standing match. They keep saying "There must be a winner" We get a draw. Very good match with a god awful ending.

Austin Vs. McMahon: Steel Cage Match. The definitive attitude era feud. Great McMahon spotfest but no different than his recent stuff with HBK.

So, what's so good about this era?? Oh, and Wrestlemania 15 is one of the worst mania's ever, it feels like any other PPV.

Maybe i shouldn't have said Attitude Era. thought I backed myself up by saying that they had better storytelling in the 80s as well. My point is...throughout the majority of my span of being a wrestling fan, I've had reasons to like one guy and not another. I've had reasons to want to buy PPVs and I've had reasons I wanted to buy merchandise of my favorite guy.

One of my favorite examples of great storytelling was Summerslam 98. Full card up and down. While the ME story was used before, many times, it was different because I had grown to love Austin for the things he did and because I hated Vince just as much, and I loved Taker for Taker.

Now let's fast-forward to WM23. The same story was used between Cena and Micheals that was used with Summerslam 98. For the weeks leading into WM, there was little tension between Shawn and Cena. Compared to the SS98 feud, Taker would carry both belts himself, not tag in Austin, and finally, gave Austin one belt to show that he finally respected him. WM23: Cena and Michaels plug their DVDs and obliterate the roster with no tension between them. Oh, and 7 days before the show, Micheals FINALLY turns on Cena.

Where's the tension? Where's the drama? Where is my reason to care about these two fighting?


And maybe I'm being a bit biased. And maybe I'm looking too hard to wonder what catalyst pissed away my love for wrestling. Or maybe it's the fact that it's been the one constant in my life for the last 10 years and has been there for me no matter what shit has gone on in my life, and im looking for a reason to keep it as my "ice cream".

[Rorschach]

doinksdoodoo said:

heyguesswhatidid said:

Why do people love the attitude era? Lets pop in a tape of an attitude era PPV


Golddust Vs. Bluedust, this should be funny, oh wait, it just sucked.

Holly Vs. Snow: Hardcore title. Fun garbage match, the outside stuff was cool, would've hated to be there live though.

Big Boss Man Vs. Mideon. Wow, this sucked.

Owen and Jeff Vs. Henry and D'lo: Tag titles. Very boring and I really enjoy 3 guys in this match.

Val Venis Vs. Shamrock W/Billy Gunn as special referree: IC Title. Decent match, nothing special

Kane and Chyna Vs. HHH and X-Pac. Boring as hell.

Mankind Vs. The Rock: WWE Title Last man standing match. They keep saying "There must be a winner" We get a draw. Very good match with a god awful ending.

Austin Vs. McMahon: Steel Cage Match. The definitive attitude era feud. Great McMahon spotfest but no different than his recent stuff with HBK.

So, what's so good about this era?? Oh, and Wrestlemania 15 is one of the worst mania's ever, it feels like any other PPV.

Maybe i shouldn't have said Attitude Era. thought I backed myself up by saying that they had better storytelling in the 80s as well. My point is...throughout the majority of my span of being a wrestling fan, I've had reasons to like one guy and not another. I've had reasons to want to buy PPVs and I've had reasons I wanted to buy merchandise of my favorite guy.

One of my favorite examples of great storytelling was Summerslam 98. Full card up and down. While the ME story was used before, many times, it was different because I had grown to love Austin for the things he did and because I hated Vince just as much, and I loved Taker for Taker.

Now let's fast-forward to WM23. The same story was used between Cena and Micheals that was used with Summerslam 98. For the weeks leading into WM, there was little tension between Shawn and Cena. Compared to the SS98 feud, Taker would carry both belts himself, not tag in Austin, and finally, gave Austin one belt to show that he finally respected him. WM23: Cena and Michaels plug their DVDs and obliterate the roster with no tension between them. Oh, and 7 days before the show, Micheals FINALLY turns on Cena.

Where's the tension? Where's the drama? Where is my reason to care about these two fighting?


And maybe I'm being a bit biased. And maybe I'm looking too hard to wonder what catalyst pissed away my love for wrestling. Or maybe it's the fact that it's been the one constant in my life for the last 10 years and has been there for me no matter what crap has gone on in my life, and im looking for a reason to keep it as my "ice cream".

I agree with you.....and the Attitude Era, for me, was so much better because of one simple thing: Competition. You had wCw doing interesting things, too....so that meant that MORE thought and MORE talent had to be put forth on Vince's part just to keep you watching. That's gone today, and you could take a card from any RAW of the last MONTH and it's look about the same as the one the guy posted from the Attitude Era.....boring, crap matches with unmotivated talent. What's different, aside from the wrestlers?

[Red 'n' Black Reggie]

that sounds awesome. it made the title seem like something. in the wwe, the world title feuds are just another feud, but they are on last, and have more popular wretslers (mostly). that feud got people from all over the card involved, making the belt seem like everyone within a ten-mile radius finds it more important than oxygen. that was better than most feuds this millenium. it had a heel who deserves to get the crap beaten out of him, it had a face who people could get behind, and most importantly of all, it had something that every decent feud should have- emotion. just reading that, i went all marky and wanted you to write "and then cappotelli kicked his ass" i wanted a rematch. and i was just reading the damn thing.

[Gillberg: 0-175]

megamark said:

that sounds awesome. it made the title seem like something. in the wwe, the world title feuds are just another feud, but they are on last, and have more popular wretslers (mostly). that feud got people from all over the card involved, making the belt seem like everyone within a ten-mile radius finds it more important than oxygen. that was better than most feuds this millenium. it had a heel who deserves to get the crap beaten out of him, it had a face who people could get behind, and most importantly of all, it had something that every decent feud should have- emotion. just reading that, i went all marky and wanted you to write "and then cappotelli kicked his ass" i wanted a rematch. and i was just reading the damn thing.

You sir just summed up everything I have and can ever try to say about this topic with that paragraph.

And to the people who didn't understand the joke, the topic title is sarcasm. And it was dumb enough to get the majority of the people here to look. No offense to the board, but you all seem to enjoy the stupid things that are posted here and I tried to make the topic title seem like it so people would view it.