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Post by celtics543 on Apr 8, 2024 12:58:18 GMT -5
If all you do is lose every time you show up it's diminishing returns. Mick Foley lost so damned often in his comebacks that beating him meant literally nothing. This is wrong about Foley. His losses to Ric Flair didn't really mean much because well it was Flair, but his losses to Edge and Orton did an absolute shit ton to help their careers after that. Otherwise, he didn't really lose to anyone post retirement. But how do you feel when Mick comes out now? Does it feel like a big deal if someone beats him like it does when Taker or Rock get beat? It's just a subtle thing about presentation and somehow they've taken Cena and robbed all of his aura from him. He feels like a big deal but he doesn't feel like a Final Boss, excuse the pun, like he should.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 8, 2024 11:40:14 GMT -5
I guess it's not the losses but the way he's presented. He gets presented as not a big deal and feels like he's no threat at all to actually win. I'm happy that he wants to put guys over and doesn't mind losing, that's great, but the company presents him like he didn't just dominate the 2000's. He's been presented as way lesser of a star than most of the guys who come back.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 8, 2024 10:11:50 GMT -5
Last night was unreal, just an amazing Mania. I was left with a question though, why is John Cena now a Jobber? The guy ran the entire company from like 2005 until he retired a couple years ago. Now when he comes back he's getting kind of squashed by guys like Solo and Austin Theory. He's like the one legit top guy from his era and they treat him like a midcard Jobber to the stars guy whenever he comes back.
I feel absurd saying this after living through the Super Cena era where he never lost but now it's like he gets the least amount of star treatment of anyone. Rock comes back and is instantly main event. Austin comes back and is instantly main event. Same with HHH, Undertaker, etc but Cena comes back and maybe he gets a competitive match with Austin Theory or Solo. Rock came out last night and punked him immediately. What is he missing? He's a Hollywood star, a former dominant pro wrestler, liked by live crowds, seems to be respected by his peers, what am I missing?
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 8, 2024 8:01:45 GMT -5
I'm not sure anyone will ever rate higher than the Fink for me but a lot of that is nostalgia as well. She's absolutely incredible though. It's the first time since Fink that I've commented on how good an announcer was during the show.
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Post by celtics543 on Mar 29, 2024 6:29:26 GMT -5
The HHH v Flair title match on Raw in 03. I was coming to mention this one as well. Great build and great match. They actually made me believe Flair was winning the title for a second.
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Post by celtics543 on Mar 22, 2024 9:00:37 GMT -5
Tuxedo match might be able to work if you had the right people.
On no planet will B+P work anymore. Literally the only possible way would be if you had the person who lost be in like the most conservative version of bra and panties, like a RTC Ivory or Molly Holly kind of heel gimmick. No matter how evolved and culturally different people may feel now, there's no way a serious women's wrestler can be stripped down and be wearing something like what Trish/Tori/Stacy etc used to wear in these matches and be seen in the same way as a serious competitor. Unfair? Sure. Sexist? Definitely. True? Unfortunately also yes. Try to imagine the entire "match" and what the fan reaction would be or what the commentators would say....this type of match will only lead to lots of unhappy people because of the sophomoric reactions of most of the commentary team and especially the crowd.
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Post by celtics543 on Mar 21, 2024 15:45:39 GMT -5
Alex Wright in the modern era. Had he been born ten years later he'd probably be viewed similarly to Castagnoli or Tim Thatcher or someone, and might have been given the opportunity to lean more into his background rather than stuck being the comedy dancing German. And putting someone back in time rather than bringing them forwards, Earthquake in the seventies territories could've been great. Alex Wright is a great call. I'd throw in most foreign guys back then, Hakushi is the one that immediately comes to mind.
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Post by celtics543 on Mar 21, 2024 6:40:17 GMT -5
In a universe where Goldberg doesn’t kick Bret Hart and Bret and Vince make up, it could’ve been the Smackdown 7 in 2002-03. Bret Hart as the investor who buys into the WWF would have been a great route. Have Bret beat Vince at Royal Rumble and face Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania X-8 who Vince brings back to put Bret away once and for all. Perhaps the two shake hands and take Vince out after signaling both as babyfaces and over the next decade they team up once in a while and Bret gets feuds with Benoit, Angle, Eddie, Batista, Orton, Cena, Taker once more, Lesnar, Triple H, and Jericho. Wow, I had never even thought about if it was Bret's music that hit after Survivor Series 2001 instead of Flair's. The pop would have been astronomical. And then you have Bret vs Vince, Bret vs Angle, Bret vs Austin, Bret vs Rock, Jericho, RVD, and then later guys like Mysterio. I wholeheartedly believe that Bret being gone so long was really a lot of things, not just Montreal. It was Owen's death, it was his own health issues, it was the family in-fighting, HHH gaining more power etc. In a world where Owen lives and Bret has no health issues, then I think he's back by 2002.
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Post by celtics543 on Mar 21, 2024 6:37:24 GMT -5
Just so many in both directions:
Bret and Owen Hart being alive and healthy and able to still go until like 2006 would have been incredible. The number of guys they could've had matches with would have been unreal.
Khali, Big Show, or any other giant human being in the early to mid 80's would have been great as well. Their ultimate destiny would have been being slayed by Hogan but they would have fit in really well in that time. Or heck even before that as territory guys similar to Andre.
Sean Waltman in the early 2000's but also he's such a product of the 90's that it's hard to imagine him coming up any other time.
Scott Hall coming up today. Wrestling has gotten a lot smaller so a guy like him would have stood out even more, especially being able to go and with his charisma. Plus more guys are clean these days so maybe less demons to get in his way.
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Post by celtics543 on Mar 9, 2024 12:09:26 GMT -5
I'm not sure how you can top Wrestlemania 3. The two biggest stars of the time face each other in an epic match where highlights are still being shown 37 years later.
17 was great as well and I actually enjoyed 20 but the ending is marred now with everything that happened since.
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Post by celtics543 on Mar 7, 2024 18:28:05 GMT -5
Honestly, it's hard to imagine a role for him. He worked as Flair's executive consultant because no one was going to overshadow Ric Flair but having Mr. Perfect manage someone else seems like a recipe for Perfect to be way more over than the wrestler he's with. Maybe he could've commentated or been a trainer but I kind of think he just disappears and does the "dad" life until his son is ready to get in the ring. Maybe he'd be good as a manager for him but even then, Curt is definitely going to overshadow him.
In a perfect world, he stays out of the ring after 96 and just goes home to be a dad and do some nostalgia appearances and autograph signings. I kind of see him doing similar things to Bret Hart in recent years. Sporadic appearances and maybe a one off match.
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Post by celtics543 on Feb 7, 2024 11:30:42 GMT -5
Inappropriate relationships are kind of a McMahon thing I guess. Even though it worked out well, Stephanie dating HHH is hugely inappropriate. She's the daughter of the boss and a high ranking official and he's way below her on the ladder as a talent for the company. It seems that no one really cared beyond HHH getting a bigger push than he deserved in some minds but would people have cared if it was a senior male executive dating a female wrestler?
What Vince did deserves jail time but the idea of an exec dating someone way lower on the totem pole feels like it is looked down on when it's a male exec but just kind of accepted when it's a female exec. Seems like a huge double standard. Now what Vince did was abuse and highly illegal, he should go to jail for a long time.
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Post by celtics543 on Feb 6, 2024 19:18:17 GMT -5
Maybe a 0.01% chance but does anyone else think Rock maybe understood this wouldn’t be popular? Maybe he came back to be a heel again? Maybe this is the start of him cutting some Hollywood Rock promos?
What if this turns into a story about Roman, the longest running champ since Hogan, Rock, believing he’s bigger than everyone else in the business, and Cody, the people’s champion? Maybe Rock isn’t as clueless as we believe, maybe he’s a genius and going to put Cody over huge.
Or maybe I’m crazy.
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Post by celtics543 on Feb 6, 2024 14:12:10 GMT -5
Here's the issue, and why I agree with Bret, people know wrestling is pre-determined. No one thinks what they're watching is real, so if you're really hurting each other for fans who assume it's not real, then who's the mark?
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Post by celtics543 on Feb 3, 2024 19:22:05 GMT -5
I just realized that WM40 will be held in the same city this happened. This is stupid booking. I've said it so many times, I can't state it enough.
But kind of the opposite roles this time. Rock being shoehorned in and shoved down our throats and Roman looking kind of irritated because of the response.
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Post by celtics543 on Feb 3, 2024 19:21:25 GMT -5
There’s no way that this happens, in Philly, with those fans. Maybe it’s a swerve and Rock aligns with Roman or something but no way does this go down as it sits right now.
It honestly would’ve been better to have Cody take a beat down, miss Mania and then come back to avenge himself at Summerslam if this is how they’re going to do it.
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Post by celtics543 on Feb 3, 2024 18:39:46 GMT -5
I’m sure it’s somewhere in this 111 pages but what is Cody’s contract status? Is there a chance this pushes him back to AEW? I think it’s clear that he’s still buddies with the Elite and his boy Starks is there. Does this piss him off again because he’s having his legs cut out again? Last time they jerked him around he just left and started the second biggest promotion in the US.
Imagine how huge a Cody return would be now. He’s possibly the most well liked and over full time wrestler in the entire industry.
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Post by celtics543 on Feb 3, 2024 7:37:59 GMT -5
They’re aware that Wrestlemania is in Philly right? And even more importantly the Raw after Mania is in Philly. Are they hoping for the return of Die Rocky Die chants?
Although to be fair, HHH and Rock have never really gotten along. Maybe HHH is setting him up for failure here knowingly.
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Post by celtics543 on Feb 2, 2024 12:23:03 GMT -5
Wouldn't this be a good year to bring in Luger? They could use a feel-good story, and Vince isn't around to veto it. While this would be a feel good for a lot of people I worry that the msm would focus on his role in the death of Miss Elizabeth and some of his other issues.
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Post by celtics543 on Jan 26, 2024 9:45:41 GMT -5
The last page about wwe's control of the business has me thinking. Rene Dupree left wwe for moral reasons and never returned after Benoit. Is there anyone else known to have done similar? I wonder about guys like Randy Savage, Shane Douglas, and anyone else that was basically blackballed because Vince didn't like them. Or a guy like Bruno or Pedro Morales, who worked mostly for Vince sr and then were phased out and never really came back.
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