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Post by I'm The Cool One on Dec 16, 2007 18:18:36 GMT -5
They knew about the concussions. Vince is great for caring after the fact, but during he tends to ignore things like that for whipping the workhorses harder. And your sig is so oddly intriguing that I love it. But he gave Benoit time off last year when he requested it, that doesn't sound like someone who doesn't care at all to me. or what he said again, lmao
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Post by I'm The Cool One on Dec 16, 2007 18:19:22 GMT -5
But the thing is we don't know either. We only know what's been said in public. Who knows what's not been said. I'm not arguing WWE is liable, I'm saying there can be a case. Obviously, it turns on whether Benoit's estate could find evidence WWE was aware of Benoit's case. they COULD hve a case. yeah, i'll agree with that. but it would (barring the release of some info that is damning to the WWE) be an easy win for vince and co
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Post by amsiraK on Dec 16, 2007 18:30:53 GMT -5
They knew about the concussions. Vince is great for caring after the fact, but during he tends to ignore things like that for whipping the workhorses harder. And your sig is so oddly intriguing that I love it. but were they aware of the post concussion disorder that could occur? i mean, as far as i know, this is the first time a pro wrestler has gone off the handle like this... and are we even sure that the problem was concussions? theres so much being held back and not released to the publice that its so hard to make a judgement call from where we stand. i just dont see how the company should be held responsible for the worker's decision. and thanks Considering reports are that his brain was (reportedly) Swiss Cheese, I don't know how much decision was involved. And their liability will hinge on whether or not it was injury/work related or just a nut slipping off its bolt. But the cumulative effect of multiple concussions can't be ignored. If Vince and the WWE are blameless, he and his people need to do full disclosure on the facts. Hiding things that would get him in trouble (steroids, script-happy doctors, etc) will only hurt their side in the long run.
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Post by I'm The Cool One on Dec 16, 2007 18:32:41 GMT -5
but were they aware of the post concussion disorder that could occur? i mean, as far as i know, this is the first time a pro wrestler has gone off the handle like this... and are we even sure that the problem was concussions? theres so much being held back and not released to the publice that its so hard to make a judgement call from where we stand. i just dont see how the company should be held responsible for the worker's decision. and thanks Considering reports are that his brain was (reportedly) Swiss Cheese, I don't know how much decision was involved. And their liability will hinge on whether or not it was injury/work related or just a nut slipping off its bolt. But the cumulative effect of multiple concussions can't be ignored. If Vince and the WWE are blameless, he and his people need to do full disclosure on the facts. Hiding things that would get him in trouble (steroids, script-happy doctors, etc) will only hurt their side in the long run. but then were's the proof that all of that brain damage happened in the WWE? the guy worked for WCW, ECW, Stampede, and countless others over the years... should they all be held responsible as well?
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Post by CrazySting on Dec 16, 2007 18:34:03 GMT -5
Is Heyman getting sued as well? Benoit did some pretty dangerous stuff working for him.
Hopefully the Benoit estate don't take a cheque.
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Post by lol on Dec 16, 2007 18:36:07 GMT -5
Why does it sound like Micheal Benoit is trying to force WWE to bribe him? Give the kids of a previous marriage 2 million dollars and I wouldn't sue you!
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Post by amsiraK on Dec 16, 2007 18:43:10 GMT -5
Considering reports are that his brain was (reportedly) Swiss Cheese, I don't know how much decision was involved. And their liability will hinge on whether or not it was injury/work related or just a nut slipping off its bolt. But the cumulative effect of multiple concussions can't be ignored. If Vince and the WWE are blameless, he and his people need to do full disclosure on the facts. Hiding things that would get him in trouble (steroids, script-happy doctors, etc) will only hurt their side in the long run. but then were's the proof that all of that brain damage happened in the WWE? the guy worked for WCW, ECW, Stampede, and countless others over the years... should they all be held responsible as well? I don't want to cite the wrong place... I think it was Maxim (don't snicker) that had a pretty good article on Benoit this past month and they mentioned that Chris Nowinski is doing work for some organization related to head trauma or the like and they have the proof. We're not going to get anything solid, proof-wise, unless there's a trial. Both sides are keeping their cards close to their chests. Vince is hoping this goes away, but I think in the wake of Benoit and the whole doctor mess, there's not going to be any escape for him. IMO And if they can prove it... yes. Though if Michael sues ECW and WCW, he's still going to the same well - Vince.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Dec 16, 2007 18:44:57 GMT -5
but then were's the proof that all of that brain damage happened in the WWE? the guy worked for WCW, ECW, Stampede, and countless others over the years... should they all be held responsible as well? I don't want to cite the wrong place... I think it was Maxim (don't snicker) that had a pretty good article on Benoit this past month and they mentioned that Chris Nowinski is doing work for some organization related to head trauma or the like and they have the proof. We're not going to get anything solid, proof-wise, unless there's a trial. Both sides are keeping their cards close to their chests. Vince is hoping this goes away, but I think in the wake of Benoit and the whole doctor mess, there's not going to be any escape for him. IMO And if they can prove it... yes. Though if Michael sues ECW and WCW, he's still going to the same well - Vince. He'd have to send some letters to Japan as well as Benoit worked there extensively too. Still, I don't think he has much of a case as WWE wasn't that bad towards him.
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Post by CrazySting on Dec 16, 2007 18:47:08 GMT -5
The thing is, does Michael Benoit need the stress of a massive lawsuit that WWE will fight to the bitter end? Like I said, Benoit's kids won't starve even if they don't get WWE's money, so why bother? He's never going to find anyone who will say 'this wasn't Chris's fault it was _____' which is obviously what he wants.
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Post by skillz on Dec 16, 2007 18:54:54 GMT -5
Why does everyone become a lawyer when this type of stuff comes up?
None of us know the facts. Until then, it's all speculation on both sides. Although it's a bit disturbing how some will instantly jump to the WWE's defense regardless of the issue.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Dec 16, 2007 18:58:03 GMT -5
Why does everyone become a lawyer when this type of stuff comes up? None of us know the facts. Until then, it's all speculation on both sides. Although it's a bit disturbing how some will instantly jump to the WWE's defense regardless of the issue. True, but it's not like Vince was heartless towards Benoit. He wanted to be home more, and got the time to do so (I think it was close to 4 months) last year to rest and be with his family. It's not like he was a monster and said no you're working every Raw/ECW/SD show from now till you can't walk anymore.
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Post by jfpierce on Dec 16, 2007 19:08:33 GMT -5
Not commenting on the specifics of this case, but if this gets the WWE to send people to the doctor after they get a concussion and actually pay attention to whether they're ready to come back from injury to wrestle again, then something good will have come from it.
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Post by skillz on Dec 16, 2007 19:10:34 GMT -5
Why does everyone become a lawyer when this type of stuff comes up? None of us know the facts. Until then, it's all speculation on both sides. Although it's a bit disturbing how some will instantly jump to the WWE's defense regardless of the issue. True, but it's not like Vince was heartless towards Benoit. He wanted to be home more, and got the time to do so (I think it was close to 4 months) last year to rest and be with his family. It's not like he was a monster and said no you're working every Raw/ECW/SD show from now till you can't walk anymore. That might be true (I haven't followed the WWE that closely the past few years), but my point was that none of us really know the extent of what happened. It's all speculation. With wrestling it's even more convoluted because there is no union. I just think we have to wait to see how these play out before casting blame on someone. Losing a child or loved one in general is not easy, and the WWE is always going to be in a situation where they can be blamed for overworking someone. But again, it's all hearsay at this point.
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Post by I'm The Cool One on Dec 16, 2007 19:29:28 GMT -5
Why does everyone become a lawyer when this type of stuff comes up? None of us know the facts. Until then, it's all speculation on both sides. Although it's a bit disturbing how some will instantly jump to the WWE's defense regardless of the issue. no one is becoming a lawyer here. we're simply debating the facts that have been presented to us as of right now. and from the facts that i see, dude dosen't have much of a case. just someone trying to capitalize on WWE's criticism that they are evil, steroid-providing monsters... an unjust criticism
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Post by David Otunga: Eternian at Law on Dec 16, 2007 20:46:55 GMT -5
Wow, the sad truth in all of this, is in a way everyone has some blame to share.
Yes the WWE should likely take better care of it's talent, from better drug screening to a lighter schedule, to full medical coverage including marriage counseling, and psychological counseling.
But the Benoit family needs to realize their son chose all of this...WWE didn't make him do drugs, (granted the looked the other way pretty much), and they didn't make him kill his family.
This really is the worst part of any tragedy, when sides start pointing fingers, and try to decide who is at fault.
The truth is everyone is at fault to some degree.
WWE...should take better care of it's talent.
Michael Benoit...should have looked a little harder at his son's life when he was alive.
Nancy Benoit...should have stuck with her guns when she filed that restraining order, it was clearly a cry for help then, that both WWE, and Michael didn't listen to, and one Nancy should have pressed harder.
And finally Chris himself you work in a business where your told from veterans of the dangers of drug abuse, and injury. You yourself have seen your co-workers die by their own hand, or by the abuse of drugs, accidents, and just pure stress of the insane schedule. If Eddie's death wasn't a wake up call, look around you and see where your co-workers were heading...The Rock, Stone Cold, and Mick Foley all came to the conclusion that you need to take care of yourself, because the business is NEVER going to do it.
In the end Chris did what he did, and he, Nancy, and Daniel paid the price...now Michael, and the WWE need to realize, that turning the blind eye as both did comes with a price as well.
Michaels is the loss of his son, his daughter in law, and his grandson, and he'll forever live with the fact that his son was a killer, and that he'll never have a chance to go back and take action when the warning signs were there.
WWE has similar issues on a larger scale, people are now looking at them and asking, "Why did this happen?" And the answers are in the lives their employees lead, and the WWE looks bad for it's part in this.
Should WWE 'Pay Off' the family?
I'm not sure pay off is the correct term, the children deserve some of the money WWE will make off Benoit, because you just know that one day....likely not soon, but one day....will make some money off of a DVD likely titled 'The Benoit Story: Triumph and Tragedy' or something close, and yes his family deserves some of that money.
But I think the WWE, and Michael Benoit should be working towards a more lofty goal...making sure this NEVER happens again. Both WWE, and Michael need to start a program that gives wrestlers what they need the most.....sound medical care.....sound mental care.....and time to rest from injuries and heal.
Just my opinion.
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Post by Palatial Regalia on Dec 16, 2007 21:03:21 GMT -5
I agree that wrestlers need better health plans and time off if needed.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Dec 16, 2007 21:08:34 GMT -5
Wow, the sad truth in all of this, is in a way everyone has some blame to share. Yes the WWE should likely take better care of it's talent, from better drug screening to a lighter schedule, to full medical coverage including marriage counseling, and psychological counseling. But the Benoit family needs to realize their son chose all of this...WWE didn't make him do drugs, (granted the looked the other way pretty much), and they didn't make him kill his family. This really is the worst part of any tragedy, when sides start pointing fingers, and try to decide who is at fault. The truth is everyone is at fault to some degree. WWE...should take better care of it's talent. Michael Benoit...should have looked a little harder at his son's life when he was alive. Nancy Benoit...should have stuck with her guns when she filed that restraining order, it was clearly a cry for help then, that both WWE, and Michael didn't listen to, and one Nancy should have pressed harder. And finally Chris himself you work in a business where your told from veterans of the dangers of drug abuse, and injury. You yourself have seen your co-workers die by their own hand, or by the abuse of drugs, accidents, and just pure stress of the insane schedule. If Eddie's death wasn't a wake up call, look around you and see where your co-workers were heading...The Rock, Stone Cold, and Mick Foley all came to the conclusion that you need to take care of yourself, because the business is NEVER going to do it. In the end Chris did what he did, and he, Nancy, and Daniel paid the price...now Michael, and the WWE need to realize, that turning the blind eye as both did comes with a price as well. Michaels is the loss of his son, his daughter in law, and his grandson, and he'll forever live with the fact that his son was a killer, and that he'll never have a chance to go back and take action when the warning signs were there. WWE has similar issues on a larger scale, people are now looking at them and asking, "Why did this happen?" And the answers are in the lives their employees lead, and the WWE looks bad for it's part in this. Should WWE 'Pay Off' the family? I'm not sure pay off is the correct term, the children deserve some of the money WWE will make off Benoit, because you just know that one day....likely not soon, but one day....will make some money off of a DVD likely titled 'The Benoit Story: Triumph and Tragedy' or something close, and yes his family deserves some of that money. But I think the WWE, and Michael Benoit should be working towards a more lofty goal...making sure this NEVER happens again. Both WWE, and Michael need to start a program that gives wrestlers what they need the most.....sound medical care.....sound mental care.....and time to rest from injuries and heal. Just my opinion. A very well thought out response. I agree with this man wholeheartedly.
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Post by tarheelfan on Dec 16, 2007 21:44:37 GMT -5
I'm not the biggest Vince supporter but I applaud the WWE for taking a stand and rejecting this claim. The WWE did not murder Benoits family but Chris Benoit did. It called personal ACOUNTABILITY and I say again personal accountability. I don't know what made Benoit so special that his family thinks that they can try to get something out of the WWE. The fact is that wrestling is a sport that is high risk when it comes to possible injuries. I would take an educated guess and say that of all the wrestlers who have wrestled professionally that many others have suffered injuries through the years. Yet I didn't see any of them murder their family. This case would be a slam dunk win for Vince McMahon because in the real world personal accountabilty>>>>workrate in a stage sport.
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mikedh
Don Corleone
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Post by mikedh on Dec 16, 2007 21:47:53 GMT -5
The WWE killed the Benoits? News to me, I thought it was Chris. I am glad they took a risk and took a likely unpopular stance, they are in the right here.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Dec 17, 2007 4:36:44 GMT -5
I do think WWE should donate to the fund that is carried out in Nancy and Daniel's name....a fund for abused spouses as a good PR move.
As for this.....I understand why Michael is doing this so the kids who are still alive are taken care of, however.....WWE has shown that they are not sympathetic (see Vince's Real Sports interview) and have no problem winning in court and there really isnt a very good case you can make against them that they can't counter.
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