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Post by Bobby Womack on Dec 26, 2007 19:25:38 GMT -5
the stables were great back then they really need some more now
anyway what the original poster described would be irritating right now but punk doesnt really do that
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Post by molson5 on Dec 26, 2007 19:48:56 GMT -5
I don't go around calling myself straight edge. Well, right there is how you're different than the CM Punk character, and that's the thing that makes him irritating. If it happens to come up that you don't drink, and people give you crap about, ya, they're obviously losers. But looking down on people who like to have a good time is pretty pretentious. I like to drink, and occasionally I like to drink a lot. But I don't drive drunk, beat my wife, or impact society negatively in any way. So straight edge people telling me "they don't NEED to get drunk to have fun", is a pretty insulting implication since this is a CHOICE I'm making, not a NEED. Thus, it's heelish behavior. I have no clue how being straight edge is a face gimmick. Punk's a great talent to actually get over with it.
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Post by T.J. "the Crippler" Stevens on Dec 26, 2007 19:57:04 GMT -5
I have no clue how being straight edge is a face gimmick. Because it means you're not like Chris Benoit.
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Post by stevierichardsfan on Dec 26, 2007 19:58:38 GMT -5
if this was 1999 he'd be given an incest gimmick sadly hes pribally right
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Post by WWE Trademarked My Name on Dec 26, 2007 20:00:15 GMT -5
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Post by molson5 on Dec 26, 2007 20:07:23 GMT -5
I have no clue how being straight edge is a face gimmick. Because it means you're not like Chris Benoit. Exactly my point. Straight Edge people see the world as two kinds of people. Straight Edge, and miserable drug addicts. If you're not one of them, Straight Edgers lump you with everyone else. Believe or not, most people enjoy alcohol in moderation. It's why it's a perfect heel gimmick. But you're right in that the WWE probably doesn't feel like they can go there - a heel character that brags about being clean.
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Post by T.J. "the Crippler" Stevens on Dec 26, 2007 20:26:40 GMT -5
Because it means you're not like Chris Benoit. Believe or not, most people enjoy alcohol in moderation. You don't have to tell me, man. I enjoy it above and beyond moderation every once in a while myself. Just remember that alot kids watch the show too. He could lay off the "no alcohol" talk in the house that Austin built, but promoting a wrestler who is openly drug free is a damn good babyface when there are kids watching. And judging by the crowds, there's alot of kids these days. But you're right, in 1999 it wouldn't have flown. But in 1993, he'd have been a huge hit. It's all about the world and your timing in it.
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Post by The Genesis of KoOS on Dec 26, 2007 20:47:00 GMT -5
I think Punk will be heel by the end of 08. IMO, he's not that over. He got a few NICE pops (Survivor Series stands out) but he doesn't get consistent reactions like a top champion should. Hell, he doesn't even get reactions comparable to some midcard champs. When Batista shows up on Raw, they go nuts. If Cena or Orton shows up on Smackdown, the crowd definitely takes notice. When Punk wrestles on one of the big shows (and very often on ECW), the crowd simply doesn't seem to care. If they do, it is in small sections. I know people will say "it's ECW, no one cares.." but I don't find that to be true at all. That would give the crowd a reason to pop for Punk when they see him if the rest of ECW sucks so badly. I'm not saying he isn't over at all and I'm not saying he isn't a good performer, but he's really bland in terms of a WWE character. His "straight edge" thing doesn't bode well for an audience filled with 50% children who most likely couldn't identify a drug, let alone relate to someone who's gimmick is that they aren't on drugs. There are more people not on drugs than there are on them. I don't like it as a gimmick. Aside from that, his gimmick is that he is a competitor. Join the rest of the WWE, they just don't have recognizable soda tattoos. I think ECW will be used as an outlet to try and get someone else over again, similar to the way they treated the show when Lashley was champ. I do not expect Punk to be the main focus of any show, which will essentially lead to WWE dropping him to the midcard on one of the two big shows as they shift their focus to someone who they actually wanted to get over. This will lead to creative meetings with "nothing to do with him" and he'll turn heel or be teaming with Charlie Haas in less than a year. This is all my opinion, but I've never been some hugely optimistic fan of his. He's always just kind of "been there." Then how come Punk is always reported to be among the top pop getters at house shows and tapings and what not? And of course Punk won't out pop the main eventers on Raw and Smackdown, they get pushed more and have been pushed longer. Punk has strictly been an ECW guy for the year and a half he has been on TV. And considering the ratings ECW gets and considering how much promotion the show actually gets, Punk could be in a lot worse shape than his is popularity wise. Oh and to the people who complain about Punk "rubbing his lifestyle" in people's faces, do you hate The Rock for always rubbing his Hollywood movies in our faces? What about Austin and his beer drinking and potty mouth? What about when Vince McMahon rubs it in our face that he is rich?
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Dec 26, 2007 20:49:17 GMT -5
I think Punk will be heel by the end of 08. IMO, he's not that over. He got a few NICE pops (Survivor Series stands out) but he doesn't get consistent reactions like a top champion should. Hell, he doesn't even get reactions comparable to some midcard champs. When Batista shows up on Raw, they go nuts. If Cena or Orton shows up on Smackdown, the crowd definitely takes notice. When Punk wrestles on one of the big shows (and very often on ECW), the crowd simply doesn't seem to care. If they do, it is in small sections. I know people will say "it's ECW, no one cares.." but I don't find that to be true at all. That would give the crowd a reason to pop for Punk when they see him if the rest of ECW sucks so badly. I'm not saying he isn't over at all and I'm not saying he isn't a good performer, but he's really bland in terms of a WWE character. His "straight edge" thing doesn't bode well for an audience filled with 50% children who most likely couldn't identify a drug, let alone relate to someone who's gimmick is that they aren't on drugs. There are more people not on drugs than there are on them. I don't like it as a gimmick. Aside from that, his gimmick is that he is a competitor. Join the rest of the WWE, they just don't have recognizable soda tattoos. I think ECW will be used as an outlet to try and get someone else over again, similar to the way they treated the show when Lashley was champ. I do not expect Punk to be the main focus of any show, which will essentially lead to WWE dropping him to the midcard on one of the two big shows as they shift their focus to someone who they actually wanted to get over. This will lead to creative meetings with "nothing to do with him" and he'll turn heel or be teaming with Charlie Haas in less than a year. This is all my opinion, but I've never been some hugely optimistic fan of his. He's always just kind of "been there." Then how come Punk is always reported to be among the top pop getters at house shows and tapings and what not? And of course Punk won't out pop the main eventers on Raw and Smackdown, they get pushed more and have been pushed longer. Punk has strictly been an ECW guy for the year and a half he has been on TV. And considering the ratings ECW gets and considering how much promotion the show actually gets, Punk could be in a lot worse shape than his is popularity wise. Oh and to the people who complain about Punk "rubbing his lifestyle" in people's faces, do you hate The Rock for always rubbing his Hollywood movies in our faces? What about Austin and his beer drinking and potty mouth? What about when Vince McMahon rubs it in our face that he is rich? How do they rub it in our faces?
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Post by The Genesis of KoOS on Dec 26, 2007 20:55:10 GMT -5
Then how come Punk is always reported to be among the top pop getters at house shows and tapings and what not? And of course Punk won't out pop the main eventers on Raw and Smackdown, they get pushed more and have been pushed longer. Punk has strictly been an ECW guy for the year and a half he has been on TV. And considering the ratings ECW gets and considering how much promotion the show actually gets, Punk could be in a lot worse shape than his is popularity wise. Oh and to the people who complain about Punk "rubbing his lifestyle" in people's faces, do you hate The Rock for always rubbing his Hollywood movies in our faces? What about Austin and his beer drinking and potty mouth? What about when Vince McMahon rubs it in our face that he is rich? How do they rub it in our faces? Vince: "I am a certifiable BILLIONAIRE!" etc Austin: *drinks 5000 cans of beer in the ring every time he shows up* Rock: "I'm on the set of my newest movie!" That stuff is no different than Punk saying "I'm drug free, my only addiction is wrestling." etc.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Dec 26, 2007 20:59:24 GMT -5
How do they rub it in our faces? Vince: "I am a certifiable BILLIONAIRE!" etc Austin: *drinks 5000 cans of beer in the ring every time he shows up* Rock: "I'm on the set of my newest movie!" That stuff is no different than Punk saying "I'm drug free, my only addiction is wrestling." etc. Punk saying "I'm drug free" is not rubbing it in people's faces. back when he used to run down people for drinking and smoking pot, and saying that being straightedge made him better than them, that is rubbing it in people’s faces.
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Post by The Genesis of KoOS on Dec 26, 2007 21:06:36 GMT -5
Vince: "I am a certifiable BILLIONAIRE!" etc Austin: *drinks 5000 cans of beer in the ring every time he shows up* Rock: "I'm on the set of my newest movie!" That stuff is no different than Punk saying "I'm drug free, my only addiction is wrestling." etc. Punk saying "I'm drug free" is not rubbing it in people's faces. back when he used to run down people for drinking and smoking pot, and saying that being straightedge made him better than them, that is rubbing it in people’s faces. *shakes head* When has he done that in the E? I thought this conversation was about his current situation not stuff he did over two years ago in the indies? And besides that was his HEEL gimmick. His heel gimmick was to be the over the top, obnoxious sXe guy who thinks he is better than everyone else because of his lifestyle. The babyface version is a lot like the real C.M. Punk because he doesn't go all preachy on his lifestyle choices. The real Punk is the kind of guy who will go out with drinks, but while you're drinking a beer, he is drinking a Diet Pepsi. Some people need to tell the difference between character developments with reality.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Dec 26, 2007 21:15:27 GMT -5
Punk saying "I'm drug free" is not rubbing it in people's faces. back when he used to run down people for drinking and smoking pot, and saying that being straightedge made him better than them, that is rubbing it in people’s faces. *shakes head* When has he done that in the E? I thought this conversation was about his current situation not stuff he did over two years ago in the indies? And besides that was his HEEL gimmick. His heel gimmick was to be the over the top, obnoxious sXe guy who thinks he is better than everyone else because of his lifestyle. The babyface version is a lot like the real C.M. Punk because he doesn't go all preachy on his lifestyle choices. The real Punk is the kind of guy who will go out with drinks, but while you're drinking a beer, he is drinking a Diet Pepsi. Some people need to tell the difference between character developments with reality. why did you *shakes head*? you're point was that by saying "I'm drug free" he's rubbing it in people's faces. running down people for drinking and saying you're a better person for not is rubbing it in people's faces, just saying "I' don't drink, I wrestling" is not
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Post by primetime110 on Dec 26, 2007 23:13:29 GMT -5
I think Punk will be heel by the end of 08. IMO, he's not that over. He got a few NICE pops (Survivor Series stands out) but he doesn't get consistent reactions like a top champion should. Hell, he doesn't even get reactions comparable to some midcard champs. When Batista shows up on Raw, they go nuts. If Cena or Orton shows up on Smackdown, the crowd definitely takes notice. When Punk wrestles on one of the big shows (and very often on ECW), the crowd simply doesn't seem to care. If they do, it is in small sections. I know people will say "it's ECW, no one cares.." but I don't find that to be true at all. That would give the crowd a reason to pop for Punk when they see him if the rest of ECW sucks so badly. I'm not saying he isn't over at all and I'm not saying he isn't a good performer, but he's really bland in terms of a WWE character. His "straight edge" thing doesn't bode well for an audience filled with 50% children who most likely couldn't identify a drug, let alone relate to someone who's gimmick is that they aren't on drugs. There are more people not on drugs than there are on them. I don't like it as a gimmick. Aside from that, his gimmick is that he is a competitor. Join the rest of the WWE, they just don't have recognizable soda tattoos. I think ECW will be used as an outlet to try and get someone else over again, similar to the way they treated the show when Lashley was champ. I do not expect Punk to be the main focus of any show, which will essentially lead to WWE dropping him to the midcard on one of the two big shows as they shift their focus to someone who they actually wanted to get over. This will lead to creative meetings with "nothing to do with him" and he'll turn heel or be teaming with Charlie Haas in less than a year. This is all my opinion, but I've never been some hugely optimistic fan of his. He's always just kind of "been there." Then how come Punk is always reported to be among the top pop getters at house shows and tapings and what not? And of course Punk won't out pop the main eventers on Raw and Smackdown, they get pushed more and have been pushed longer. Punk has strictly been an ECW guy for the year and a half he has been on TV. And considering the ratings ECW gets and considering how much promotion the show actually gets, Punk could be in a lot worse shape than his is popularity wise. Oh and to the people who complain about Punk "rubbing his lifestyle" in people's faces, do you hate The Rock for always rubbing his Hollywood movies in our faces? What about Austin and his beer drinking and potty mouth? What about when Vince McMahon rubs it in our face that he is rich? Excatly who reports Punk as a top pop getter? All you have to do is watch him on Smackdown or ECW to see his pops aren't all that big. Just look at the 6 man tag on Smackdown. Rey and Kane have pretty good pops (with Reys being better) and Punk getting "I guess I'll clap for him as well".
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 27, 2007 1:24:22 GMT -5
Because it means you're not like Chris Benoit. Exactly my point. Straight Edge people see the world as two kinds of people. Straight Edge, and miserable drug addicts. If you're not one of them, Straight Edgers lump you with everyone else. Believe or not, most people enjoy alcohol in moderation. It's why it's a perfect heel gimmick. But you're right in that the WWE probably doesn't feel like they can go there - a heel character that brags about being clean. Yikes dude, I'm pretty far from straight edge, but your world view is pretty misinformed on that one. There are certainly some straight-edgers who look down on drinkers, smokers, etc., but some of Punk's best friends in the entire wrestling industry (and in his entire life) are Samoa Joe, Steve Corino, and Homicide, all guys who have been quite renown for how hard they can party. You can't lump an entire group into one personality mold. That said, yes, Punk's gimmick as a heel was absolutely fantastic. And Punk can work a great heel character without even using the whole straight edge thing, as his title run in ROH and his heel faction-leader run in FIP demonstrated.
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Post by VeggieOverlord on Dec 27, 2007 1:34:43 GMT -5
If he was around during the Attitude Era he would've been the PERFECT foil for Austin. They would have a license to print money.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2007 1:57:45 GMT -5
All this "Drug Free, look at me I'm clean-cut-straight-edged good boy who drinks ALL my milk and has a big corporate tattoo. I love Pepsi don't you, it's yummers!!" stuff would have been irritating in 1999, I'm convinced of it. drinks all his milk? Kurt Angle!
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 27, 2007 2:23:35 GMT -5
I do think some of the 'massive pops' Punk gets are a bit overstated. People like him, he has been cheered for a bunch in some venues, and he's certainly the most over of the like twelve guys on ECW, but it's not as if he's pullin in eighties Hogan level of cheers here.
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MCMGM
Vegeta
WC's Official Jeff Buckley Stalkeress.
Red Sonic My Ass
Posts: 9,184
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Post by MCMGM on Dec 27, 2007 3:07:05 GMT -5
All this "Drug Free, look at me I'm clean-cut-straight-edged good boy who drinks ALL my milk and has a big corporate tattoo. I love Pepsi don't you, it's yummers!!" stuff would have been irritating in 1999, I'm convinced of it. The things that you say would be irritating in 1999 are things Punk doesn't do in WWE today. He doesn't talk about Pepsi, milk, or being clean-cut. During his introductory vignettes, he talked about the drug free lifestyle as a way to show how disciplined and competitive he was. He's never played a squeaky clean do-gooder or shilled for Pepsi. You just apparently have a problem with him. Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!
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cxcx
Mike the Goon
Posts: 25
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Post by cxcx on Dec 27, 2007 4:05:11 GMT -5
To preface this : I'm not a big fan of CM Punk. I think he's an ok (though over-estimated) wrestler that should be high on the Mid-card, going for the IC belt with guys like Kennedy, Hardy, Shelton, Holly, ect.
That all out of the way : I was straight edge for about 4 years, my girl for about 3 times that. We've both since given it up, and I'll explain why : We ran with a straight edge crew, to the hilt : Worshipping bands like Minor Threat, SSD, Strife, DYS, ect., hitting shows regularly, ect.
The problems arose when you realize that : A. there's a lot of Dogma in the "Straight edge ranks", and B. there really are 2 types of straight edge folks : 1. People that don't drink/do drugs and enjoy being clean (i.e. My girl and I at the time), and 2. those guys that talk about being Edge 90% of the time, look down on all non-edge folks, walk around knocking drinks out of people's hand, and generally use being edge as just one more thing to seperate themselves, to make them "better" than the rest.
I think that Punk going out and showing kids that you can be "cool" (i.e. Long hair, tattoos, come off as a bad-ass, ect.) and Not indulge in drugs and alcohol is a great thing, i really do.
He could actually have a great heel run with it as well, and not by being a "type 2" and being a dick, per se, but just by going WAY over-the-top with it like Angle did for awhile. he was PROUD to be a clean living baby face, and he deplored the roster of "vulgar losers" the E had at the time. Of course, the crowd HATED him for it. The same could work here.
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