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Post by Red Impact on Dec 30, 2007 0:44:40 GMT -5
I wasn't commenting on that statement, I agree with it. I was commenting on "And if he truly was a genius, everything he touches would turn to gold." I just find that statement so baffling that I had to comment, as bonafide genius's have all sorts of recorded failures.
Ruthless, sure. I think he had to be given the rivalries he had to face.
Not a great business man, that's a matter of debate, but I doubt I'd change your mind, so there's not really any purpose of it, regardless of how much money he makes. I would propose that his marketing ability would at the very least make him a great businessman, as the ability to market something is a business skill, even if his sense of risk isn't great. I don't think anyone is accusing him of being a creative genius though.
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General Zod
Samurai Cop
KNEEL!
KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!
Posts: 2,163
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Post by General Zod on Dec 30, 2007 2:07:54 GMT -5
Perhaps nobody here is giving him any credit for being a creative genius. But I know people that do. And it's seriously mind boggling.
Most of what he's "done" was either by fluke or failure. The only reason he's in the business is because he fell out of a McMahon's crotch (see also: Stephanie, Shane).
He makes me feel embarrased to be a fan sometimes. And that's a tough feat to accomplish.
What rivalries did he have to face? He chose to assist the old school territories out of business using what the other promoters considered to be less than ethical practices. 12 years later, when the same was done to him, he filed lawsuits and cried foul, just like those "old, bitter dinosaurs" did years earlier. And now, because ECW was run like a financial circus and WCW suits mismanaged the company, he was left standing by default. He finally accomplished his goal by attrition - not because his product was nesecarilly any better.
So guess what? He wants to be the kingpin of American Pro Wrestling? He gets equal parts credit where it's due and blame when it sucks. If he doesn't like that, maybe he should have rethought his strategy a bit.
Like I said, he's a lucky moron.
Being a cut throat businessman doesn't equate being a good one. Nor does being in the right time at the right place to purchase tape libraries make one a good businessman. Hell, *I* could have bought WCW for 4 million dollars if they had offered it to me that cheap.
Please.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2007 2:19:49 GMT -5
D- Horrible "swerves", continuity issues, drug and wellness issues, too many injuries, Bobby Lashley and Batista, the Benoit murders, none of it was good. Especially the latter. And from an in-ring perspective, only two matches stick out in my mind all year as being even close to passable, and one of them featured the talentless John Cena. The two things that I find funny about this last year - All of their good programing has either been "specials" in the form of WWE 24/7 Roundtable discussions, and the DVD releases have been consistently good. Which, in my mind, says everything I ever could about the current product. It sucks so bad, no wonder people find themselves shelling out bucks for the old stuff - the GOOD stuff. Vince McMahon isn't a wrestling genius. He's a bonafide moron/borderline criminal who happens to own a large tape library. I honestly thought this year would find itself, even in the wake of the Benoit murders. I found myself supporting Vince McMahon and applauding his tenacity and steadfastedness. I even heralded him for taking a stand, and trying to rectify the drug issues that plague the industry. When I saw that he was just giving the press lip service, I lost the very last shred of respect I had for that son of a bitch. I hope he catches the clap. watch yourself zod... your breaking a rule there by wishing illness on another.
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wwerules60
El Dandy
"Bring what? a vomit bag? a fig newton?"
Posts: 8,999
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Post by wwerules60 on Dec 30, 2007 3:53:24 GMT -5
B, the in ring product was pretty good all year but nothing too spectacular.
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Ralnathane
Team Rocket
I love to fight.
Posts: 780
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Post by Ralnathane on Dec 30, 2007 3:59:42 GMT -5
D+, CM Punk was great this year, but I think that all of it could have been so much better had WWE been better with their sotrylines.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 30, 2007 10:17:34 GMT -5
What rivalries did he have to face? He chose to assist the old school territories out of business using what the other promoters considered to be less than ethical practices. 12 years later, when the same was done to him, he filed lawsuits and cried foul, just like those "old, bitter dinosaurs" did years earlier. And now, because ECW was run like a financial circus and WCW suits mismanaged the company, he was left standing by default. He finally accomplished his goal by attrition - not because his product was nesecarilly any better. So guess what? He wants to be the kingpin of American Pro Wrestling? He gets equal parts credit where it's due and blame when it sucks. If he doesn't like that, maybe he should have rethought his strategy a bit. Like I said, he's a lucky moron. Being a cut throat businessman doesn't equate being a good one. Nor does being in the right time at the right place to purchase tape libraries make one a good businessman. Hell, *I* could have bought WCW for 4 million dollars if they had offered it to me that cheap. Please. As much as you want to try to diminish how close he was to losing everything, it happened and his company pulled out of it. WCW changed it's strategy because of WWF. ECW was run into the ground on it's own, sure, but WCW was just as ruthless to WWF as WWF ever was. WWF wasn't a financial juggernaut when McMahon took it over. He made it one, much to the sour grapes of everyone else. If he was just a lucky moron, it wouldn't have become as successful of a company as it is. His dad didn't make it a multi-national, billion dollar company that grossed $400 million last year.
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yourgoingdown
AC Slater
Get ready for a Wild Ride on the Outside!
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Post by yourgoingdown on Dec 30, 2007 20:27:04 GMT -5
C+
They did better than 2005 or 2006 but still needs a lot of improvement.
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Post by Bishblast on Dec 30, 2007 20:55:35 GMT -5
I give a WWE C+. The E had an exceptionally strong first half of the year. Then something happened that need not be mentioned, and that was the starting domino, so to speak. The whole second half of the year was a big disaster, with rebooking and scrapping of major angles happening almost weekly, for sure monthly. Considering all the curve balls thrown by the media, Federal Court, employees, the employer, and itself in general, I think WWE made due in the best way they could: they got me interested again. With all of the sudden 180s happening, I needed to tune in to see how things were different, and to their credit, things have changed, and it's pointing in a very strong direction.
Also of note, this year was a particularly strong year, as far as in ring work goes. Compared to last year's drought of great matches, this year we've had at least 3 classic Undertaker/Batista matches, countless great title matches from Cena, especially vs. Umaga at Rumble, not to mention his instant classic and IMO WWE MOTY with HBK on Raw, a great match between Punk and Morrison in which Punk won the title, and the best finish to a Rumble ever. More can be mentioned.
The real negatives this year, however, were glaring; as far as booking goes, Hornswoggle McMahon comes to mind, and a disgraceful title run from Khali. This year will, unfortunately, be remembered as the year of the drug test. This brought many, many booking and PR problems for the WWE, which I'm sure everyone is aware of, so I need not elaborate. It couldn't get any worse for the company when *BAM* the top dog, Cena, is out for an large, undisclosed amount of time.
WWE however, fought back, and is as we speak, creating a product that's at least 5 times better and more entertaining than TNA, so we see that things could be MUCH worse.
Good Job, WWE.... C+
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Post by EvilShadow76 on Dec 31, 2007 14:08:19 GMT -5
D.
It needs serious improvement. I didn't enjoy it this year mainly because I basically hated every wrestler they shoved down my throat: Cena, Candice, Lashley, Orton and Mr. Useless himself...Kennedy.
These people just bore the living f*** out of me. I miss WWF back then they had characters I actually cared for (either booing or cheering.) The people they push now are just so flat out uninteresting it isn't funny.
I'm hoping 2008 will produce some characters who are actually interesting to watch.
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