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Post by willywonka666 on Oct 2, 2007 16:35:37 GMT -5
The NWA was one of the greatest promotions with some of the finest wrestling of the 1980's-but want went wrong? Things were going well for the NWA and Jim Crockett promotions in the 80's, but by 1988, they were losing money and were bought out by Ted Turner and renamed WCW. Some articles I've read point to the fact that they should have taken advantage of Bill Watts' liquidation of the UWF-it was absorbed by Jim Crockett promotions in 1987 and they could have had a great invasion angle of sorts, with UWF stars and champions coming into the NWA territory full time. Instead we had a unification match at Starcade 87 between the TV champions-and that was it.  How did this once great promotion go under? Sure, Vince hurt them a lot-but they still had some great talent of their own until Turner bought them out-but that's a WCW story. So what could have been done? What went wrong? |
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Post by Adam Pacman Khan (akkilla) on Oct 2, 2007 19:27:12 GMT -5
They even had tna....
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The In-Crowd
ALF
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In life there are winners..... and losers......... BE JEALOUS
Posts: 1,213
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Post by The In-Crowd on Oct 2, 2007 20:27:14 GMT -5
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Post by destrucity on Oct 3, 2007 7:30:50 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks that a UWF-NWA feud would have made money is kidding themselves. By the time Crockett bought the UWF they had already lost their 2 biggest faces (Duggan & DiBiase) and their champion heel (One Man Gang) to the WWF.
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Post by Kash Flagg on Oct 3, 2007 8:10:54 GMT -5
Dusty had a lot to do with it...including talking Crockett into buying him a porsche and a freakin plane.
Add in the dusty finish and him putting himself on top after people got reaaaalllly tired of him didn't help.
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Post by hutter on Oct 3, 2007 10:21:58 GMT -5
The NWA was set up as a network of promotions. Once Jim Crockett decided to keep Ric Flair's title defenses almost exclusively to his promotion and changed his regional secondary titles into world and national titles (Tag, tv, etc) then the effectiveness of the protection that being a member of the NWA (at that time) meant nothing. Thanks to decisions like these, the NWA was long declawed years before Crockett sold out to Turner. Now, if Crockett utilized the strengths of the NWA instead of pillaging the NWA's other promotions, then maybe things would have turned out much different. He would have had a support system, and a deep talent pool to draw from when the need would arise. Luger is injured? Well, then let's bring in Billy Jack Hayes to pick up the slack. Flair needs a fresh challenger? Fly in Kerry Von Erich. The Horsemen need a new rivalry to keep things fresh and unexpected? Bring in the Freebirds. After these angles, those wrestlers could go back to their home NWA promotions, keeping them fresh and more of an attraction (= bigger gates) in the long run. Even the AWA was a NWA member. If it came down to it, any of their stars could have been brought in for short runs to help keep things fresh and exciting. And whenever the WWF came into a town like, let's say Portland, Oregon...then Don Owen could count on his fellow NWA members to bring in guys like the Von Erich's, the Horsemen, the Road Warriors, etc. for a rival card to discourage VKM from invading their territory again. The system the NWA had set up was effective when used properly, but Crockett and the other NWA promotions blew it due to jealousies, infighting, and betrayal (Hiya, Brisco's!). Yeah, VKM got the ball rolling (being no different from what Crockett ended up doing), but the NWA partners could have squashed his plans if they worked together instead of what they ended up doing, which benefited no one but VKM.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2007 17:52:45 GMT -5
The NWA was set up as a network of promotions. Once Jim Crockett decided to keep Ric Flair's title defenses almost exclusively to his promotion and changed his regional secondary titles into world and national titles (Tag, tv, etc) then the effectiveness of the protection that being a member of the NWA (at that time) meant nothing. Thanks to decisions like these, the NWA was long declawed years before Crockett sold out to Turner. Now, if Crockett utilized the strengths of the NWA instead of pillaging the NWA's other promotions, then maybe things would have turned out much different. He would have had a support system, and a deep talent pool to draw from when the need would arise. Luger is injured? Well, then let's bring in Billy Jack Hayes to pick up the slack. Flair needs a fresh challenger? Fly in Kerry Von Erich. The Horsemen need a new rivalry to keep things fresh and unexpected? Bring in the Freebirds. After these angles, those wrestlers could go back to their home NWA promotions, keeping them fresh and more of an attraction (= bigger gates) in the long run. Even the AWA was a NWA member. If it came down to it, any of their stars could have been brought in for short runs to help keep things fresh and exciting. And whenever the WWF came into a town like, let's say Portland, Oregon...then Don Owen could count on his fellow NWA members to bring in guys like the Von Erich's, the Horsemen, the Road Warriors, etc. for a rival card to discourage VKM from invading their territory again. The system the NWA had set up was effective when used properly, but Crockett and the other NWA promotions blew it due to jealousies, infighting, and betrayal (Hiya, Brisco's!). Yeah, VKM got the ball rolling (being no different from what Crockett ended up doing), but the NWA partners could have squashed his plans if they worked together instead of what they ended up doing, which benefited no one but VKM. WHAT HE SAID ^ BUT IN CROCKETT'S DEFENSE HE WAS TRYING TO BEAT MC MAHON AT HIS OWN GAME BY PRESENTING ONE BIG NATIONAL PRODUCT. WHEN HULK LOOK BACK, NOT SUCH GREAT IDEA. |
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Post by hutter on Oct 3, 2007 18:43:33 GMT -5
I should add that Jim Crockett isn't totally at fault for how he used the NWA. The other NWA promoters, at this point, were generally difficult to work with. Crockett did try to co-promote with the AWA and Memphis for that "Wrestling USA" venture on ESPN, but ol' Verne had to pull his usual Verne moves and Crockett and Memphis walked away in disgust. Later on, after the NWA was all but dead, Verne, Memphis and Dallas gave it another go at an alliance, but Verne pulled another fast one on his fellow promoters with their one and only pay-per-view, stiffing everyone but his own talent. And look how that karma came back to bite him in the butkus.
As much as I dislike what VKM has mutated professional wrestling into, it wasn't his fault that the NWA, World Class and AWA folded. What's that old quote about "a house divided"?
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 3, 2007 18:56:52 GMT -5
Here's where it went wrong:
Time came to capitalize, and Vince was there to do it. No deal with Satan, no evil magic. He wasn't the richest promoter, so why him? Because he took a huge risk.
People were too interested in keeping things "safe" and pushing family and buddies. It's amazing they didn't go out of business sooner.
I know I'm a minority in saying it, but at its roots, wrestling isn't THAT different today. It's actually much purer and better than in Attitude times.
Punch, punch, piledriver is no longer law of the land. People actually know a hold or two.
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Post by hutter on Oct 3, 2007 19:11:11 GMT -5
Here's where it went wrong: Time came to capitalize, and Vince was there to do it. No deal with Satan, no evil magic. He wasn't the richest promoter, so why him? Because he took a huge risk. A lot of truth there. He took some crazy risks. Fortunately for him, they paid off, but if they didn't (especially with the first Wrestlemania) he'd probably be a footnote today. As much as I dislike VKM's version of wrestling, maybe things turned out the way they should have (I can't believe I'm saying this). |
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Oct 3, 2007 19:58:54 GMT -5
considering their track record, I'm sure they keep doing something to piss off their cash cows.
WWWF pulled out, they made it big.
WWF gave them a chance in 1997, then they dropped it, and made it big again.
WCW pulled out, they made it big.
ECW pulled ou t, they made a name for themselves.
TnA pulls out right as they're on the cusp of greatness.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Oct 3, 2007 20:56:32 GMT -5
considering their track record, I'm sure they keep doing something to piss off their cash cows. WWWF pulled out, they made it big. WWF gave them a chance in 1997, then they dropped it, and made it big again. WCW pulled out, they made it big. ECW pulled ou t, they made a name for themselves. TnA pulls out right as they're on the cusp of greatness. Lets not go crazy on the last one yet. |
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CM Putnam
Trap-Jaw
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Post by CM Putnam on Oct 3, 2007 21:01:51 GMT -5
As far as NWA goes. I think it was Ice Cube who left the group first to pursue a solo career. They did release another album after his departure but it just wasn't the same.
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Post by Adam Pacman Khan (akkilla) on Oct 3, 2007 21:36:23 GMT -5
As far as NWA goes. I think it was Ice Cube who left the group first to pursue a solo career. They did release another album after his departure but it just wasn't the same. Ice Cube realllly hit them hard with his classic "No vaseline" |
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Post by willywonka666 on Oct 3, 2007 21:59:51 GMT -5
these are all great answers(including the Ice Cube one) Thanks. Not knowing much behind the scenes info at the time, it was painfully obvious after Turner took control that the NWA /WCW was playing Vince's game-gimmicks that just didn't belong in the NWA. I would love to see a Rise and Fall documentary of the NWA-or at least a book-not sanctioned by Vince
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Oct 4, 2007 1:21:40 GMT -5
We know that Vince stole top stars/draws from every territory, and even outbid them for their own familiar TV spots in the market, and if he couldn't he'd go head-to-head with them in the TV timeslot.
But it was hard for the NWA promoters around the country to call in favors all the time with Crockett for super house shows, because he had his own territory to run seven nights a week, and Vince was running three different crews that were criss-crossing the country. Vince also started arena "exclusivity" in each area, meaning that even if Don Owen wanted to run the old 10,000+ seat Rose Garden in Portland, Vince would've bullied him out of said arena (though that's hypothetical, because WWF wouldn't run Oregon because their commission actually drug tested, but still).
Very predatory business tactics by Vinny Mac. Kind of weird that this is the same guy who (and only ten years later) pulled the whole "woe is me" whiny attitude when Bischoff got Hogan and Savage and went head-to-head with RAW.
What killed Crockett's business was...
1. Buying UWF and Florida. Two great territories that were drawing dirt. Since those territories weren't drawing live, Crockett basically bought talent for his own shows, talent that Vince would then cherry pick as he pleased. JCP even bought Central States (Missouri), which probably wasn't worth it.
2. Dusty's booking.
3. Vince's deals with the Pay-Per-View companies. Back when Starrcade was a Thanksgiving tradition, Survivor Series was created to kill it. The UWF-NWA booking of Starrcade wouldn't have made a bit of difference because it was the same night as Survivor Series '87, and Titan Sports basically told the PPV carriers that if they chose to air Starrcade instead of Survivor Series, they wouldn't be allowed to carry WrestleMania IV in 1988.
These were the days when you didn't have 80 PPV channels that offered a movie or PPV every moment of the day on cable or satellite. There was one PPV channel per system. Our system didn't carry it, only Survivor Series. My parents couldn't even order Starrcade '87 for me when I was a kid, and I lived 20 minutes away from Greensboro, NC. How messed up was that? Crockett was smurfed on PPV outside of the Southeast. smurfed by Vince. That's why the NWA-UWF Starrcade bombed.
So basically, Crockett had to bail everybody out around the NWA, until he got really strong, and Vince slit the throat of his company at every turn by using very predatory practices. But I don't think Crockett failed, after all, he was the only one left with a company that had enough national TV potential for Ted Turner to buy. Plus, Crockett signed Hulk Hogan to be Wahoo McDaniel's partner against Orton-Slater at the very first Starrcade in 1983, only to have Hogan bow out a week or two before the big event, and show up in WWF one month later. He tried. He wasn't as stubborn and clueless as Verne Gagne.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 4, 2007 1:26:51 GMT -5
Here's where it went wrong: Time came to capitalize, and Vince was there to do it. No deal with Satan, no evil magic. He wasn't the richest promoter, so why him? Because he took a huge risk. A lot of truth there. He took some crazy risks. Fortunately for him, they paid off, but if they didn't (especially with the first Wrestlemania) he'd probably be a footnote today. As much as I dislike VKM's version of wrestling, maybe things turned out the way they should have (I can't believe I'm saying this). I'd say so. Things in wrestling could of gone a lot worse. As in extinct, potentially. |
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Post by Timmy8271 on Oct 4, 2007 3:18:03 GMT -5
The death of Eddie Graham really hurt the NWA cause it killed the Florida Territory almost. Well that and Kevin Sullivan's booking killed Florida. The Florida territory was huge in the early 80's along with World Class and Charlotte. But the major cause was Crockett giving Dusty free reign. By the time Dusty was fired/quit, It was all over.
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Midnight Rider
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Post by Midnight Rider on Oct 4, 2007 17:53:38 GMT -5
Very good answers by Nature Boy,Mamacita, and Toonces; I'd say that pretty much covers how wrestling history recounts the fall of the NWA.Personally,I still think most of the blame lies with Crockett,how pretty much split up the NWA "blanket"(i.e. te entire "regional affiliates/touring champion"philosopy that gave the NWA it's appeal) to try and go head to head with the WWF,who already had alot of momentum what with the whole Hulkamania deal.What saddens me the most is that the WWF/NWA "Wars" saw the popularization of the "Buy the other companies' big name guys just for the sake of burying them to destroy theit marketability" maneuver,still used today,and which, IMO,is one of the big causes of frustration among many fans.
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AriadosMan
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Post by AriadosMan on Oct 4, 2007 18:09:41 GMT -5
Dusty had a lot to do with it...including talking Crockett into buying him a porsche and a freakin plane. Add in the dusty finish and him putting himself on top after people got reaaaalllly tired of him didn't help. Dusty was THAT greedy? I knew he had delusions of being a great writer and some sort of Hollywood celebirty, but A PLANE!?! |
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