hollywood
King Koopa
the bullet dodger
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Post by hollywood on Oct 30, 2007 8:35:58 GMT -5
I can't fathom how people can endlessly trash Russo but ignore the two tenures surrounding that initial WCW stint: Nash's Summer of Suck and Sullivan's reign of mediocrity. He gave us endless "[insert random object here] on a Pole" matches (including Viagra), the horrendous Kidman/Hogan feud (yea, people blame Hogan, but if you KNOW Hogan's not gonna put a guy over, why the hell even try!?), Goldberg's ridiculous heel turn, and David Arquette as World Champ. Let me repeat that last one since people seem to have forgotten just how terrible it was. He made David Arquette the World Champ. And still defends it to this day. Sure, Nash and Sullivan sucked. But Russo was hardly an improvement. |
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Mr. Mediocre
Hank Scorpio
Bert Early?... sorry, that's a typo. Butt. Ugly.
Much better since I was last here.
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Post by Mr. Mediocre on Oct 30, 2007 8:47:18 GMT -5
I can't fathom how people can endlessly trash Russo but ignore the two tenures surrounding that initial WCW stint: Nash's Summer of Suck and Sullivan's reign of mediocrity. He gave us endless "[insert random object here] on a Pole" matches (including Viagra), the horrendous Kidman/Hogan feud (yea, people blame Hogan, but if you KNOW Hogan's not gonna put a guy over, why the hell even try!?), Goldberg's ridiculous heel turn, and David Arquette as World Champ. Let me repeat that last one since people seem to have forgotten just how terrible it was. He made David Arquette the World Champ. And still defends it to this day. Sure, Nash and Sullivan sucked. But Russo was hardly an improvement. For the record, I still defend his Tank Abbott decision and considered it a good idea both at the time and now. |
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Splinter
Don Corleone
Picard really hates fat kids
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Post by Splinter on Oct 30, 2007 9:32:20 GMT -5
So a guy can have one good idea with the other 4,232,564,664,399,456,449 BAD ones. The reason the WWF ideas weren't all crap was because he had to answer to Vince McMahon. Where as in WCW he had free reign. The guy is very "untustworthy" according to Bischoff, Hogan, and a lot of other people who were there during his WCW stint and had to put up with the regurgitated WWE storylines and the even worse original ideas.
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Post by thestinger on Oct 30, 2007 9:42:52 GMT -5
He gave us endless "[insert random object here] on a Pole" matches (including Viagra), the horrendous Kidman/Hogan feud (yea, people blame Hogan, but if you KNOW Hogan's not gonna put a guy over, why the hell even try!?), Goldberg's ridiculous heel turn, and David Arquette as World Champ. All of that was in his SECOND term as booker. Three of us are saying we enjoyed nWo silver and black from his FIRST run. It was really good tv, probably because Russo was working with Ed Ferrarra who had a more level head. Then injuries derailed the angle, Russo was removed and three of the guys Russo was planning to build the company around (plus Perry Saturn) left. When Russo was brought back months later WCW had lost too much ground, and he and Ferrarra hated each other (at the time). That is when we had, "[insert random object here] on a Pole" matches (including Viagra), the horrendous Kidman/Hogan feud (yea, people blame Hogan, but if you KNOW Hogan's not gonna put a guy over, why the hell even try!?), Goldberg's ridiculous heel turn, and David Arquette as World Champ." WCW was probably as good as dead the day Benoit and the others walked out on Raw. Russo just sped up the dying. |
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hollywood
King Koopa
the bullet dodger
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Post by hollywood on Oct 30, 2007 10:49:58 GMT -5
He gave us endless "[insert random object here] on a Pole" matches (including Viagra), the horrendous Kidman/Hogan feud (yea, people blame Hogan, but if you KNOW Hogan's not gonna put a guy over, why the hell even try!?), Goldberg's ridiculous heel turn, and David Arquette as World Champ. All of that was in his SECOND term as booker. Three of us are saying we enjoyed nWo silver and black from his FIRST run. It was really good tv, probably because Russo was working with Ed Ferrarra who had a more level head. Then injuries derailed the angle, Russo was removed and three of the guys Russo was planning to build the company around (plus Perry Saturn) left. I didn't care for the silver and black nWo. For one, the nWo angle had pretty much worn out its welcome by then. There'd been nWo Hollywood, nWo Wolfpac, the lWo (which I'll admit I got a kick out of), and probably even a few more. And now there was a new version...with silver. Add to that the fact that Double J was in it, and in the main event (somewhere he's never had any business being), and you have grounds for a quick channel change to WWF, which was featuring the Rock/Foley/Hunter feud at its peak if I'm not mistaken. They announced "The band is back together!" But this band was hardly the original legendary faction returning. So, while I don't think it sucked, I thought it was pretty damn weak. Just my opinion, though. With the plethora of talent WCW had, I don't buy this excuse. While they would have had a long way to go before reaching their previous level of success, there was simply no excuse for them to go out of business. |
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Post by GaTechGrad on Oct 30, 2007 11:31:27 GMT -5
The "Powers that Be" gimmick was cool, where you only saw Russo's arm on camera. Then it lost its mystique once Russo made his on camera debut.
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Post by thestinger on Oct 30, 2007 12:29:31 GMT -5
Add to that the fact that Double J was in it, and in the main event (somewhere he's never had any business being), and you have grounds for a quick channel change to WWF, which was featuring the Rock/Foley/Hunter feud at its peak if I'm not mistaken. That's funny I was going to say that Foley never had any business being in the main event. Also there hadn't been any nWo for a long while at that time. It had grown too large and fizzled out never to return as far as everyone believed. It had been long enough that fans were surprised and marked out like crazy when the silver and black formed. They announcedThe band is back together! But this band was hardly the original legendary faction returning. It was Hall and Nash with Bret Hart taking the place of Hollywood Hogan. That is something nobody expected that would have been really cool if Bret hadn't suffered a career ending injury. While they would have had a long way to go before reaching their previous level of success, there was simply no excuse for them to go out of business. True, but the REAL "powers that be" from AOL Time Warner kept changing who was in charge which kept driving that talent right out of the company. I remember Jarrett saying on the air, "I came to WCW a year ago and there have been four different regimes in that time." Most people agree that Eric Bischoff was removed to quickly after WWF pulled ahead in the ratings. |
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Samoa Kenny
Unicron
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Post by Samoa Kenny on Oct 30, 2007 12:43:32 GMT -5
The HBK/Undertaker feud in '97 was one of my favourite storylines of all time, and i think that Russo has to be credited with a lot of the original DX stuff. Man, 1997 was just an awesome, AWESOME year to be a wrestling fan. Back in those days 97-2000ish, Raw was absolutely must see TV for me every Monday. If Russo came up with half that stuff I love the guy. That being said, you all know by now that the "Shaving Ryan's Privates Staring Ken Shamrocks sister" storyline is my favorite ever, and that has Russo all over it |
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Oct 30, 2007 12:51:42 GMT -5
Another reason I enjoyed the nWo Black and Silver at the outset was that it was going to allow an opportunity for the nWo angle to finally end. It had just fizzled out in mid-'99 and, after three years worth of television, it deserved a resolution.
We never got one because of the craziness that happened around Souled Out weekend. That was one dark weekend for WCW. Again, had the higher ups had faith in Russo (who was being undermined in the company since the day he set foot in it by Kevin Sullivan, J.J. Dillon, and others), we would have never gotten the post-April 10th Russo era that gets maligned so much.
Oh, and another great aspect of the Powers That Be gimmick (which was dropped as soon as the nWo reformed, as it was just an ends to the mean to their rebirth) was that it was a new spin on the tired evil authority character. Since we never saw Russo's face, it kept him in check from putting himself over too much.
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Post by hobo on Oct 30, 2007 12:55:37 GMT -5
That's funny I was going to say that Foley never had any business being in the main event. Blasphemy! Although actually I agree with the nWo Black and Silver. I hated it at the time because I was sick to death of nWo. In fact, I briefly stopped watching in 1998 because I was so tired of nonstop nWo for the last two years. I've always said WCW missed the mark in Starrcade 97, that should have been where WCW defeated nWo once and for all and wrapped up the storyline. After Starrcade I really had the feeling that the angle had completely lost its direction and that they had no idea how to wrap things up. I only started watching WCW again in 1999, and to be honest Russo's first run seemed like a breath of fresh air. So yeah, looking back now nWo silver and black wasn't so bad in theory, but they really could have come up with a better name. |
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Post by hobo on Oct 30, 2007 13:02:49 GMT -5
Another reason I enjoyed the nWo Black and Silver at the outset was that it was going to allow an opportunity for the nWo angle to finally end. It had just fizzled out in mid-'99 and, after three years worth of television, it deserved a resolution. You know that's funny because I've been wondering for years whatever happened with the original nWo. Like I mentioned a while ago, I got bored of WCW and stopped watching sometime after Goldberg won the World Title but before the Fingerpoke of Doom. I know that after the Fingerpoke the nWo Wolfpac and nWo Hollywood reunited, but I never heard what happened to the original nWo after that. Was the stable just dropped with no explanation? |
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Oct 30, 2007 13:19:19 GMT -5
More or less. After Hogan was injured and Hall was out with personal problems, the nWo started waning. One by one members stopped wearing their nWo clothing and they never appeared together. The Wolfpack had completely vanished by the summer and the Black and White B-Team was gone by August.
Despite what many feel about the nWo being played out by that point, that's certainly not the way you conclude the biggest angle in wrestling history.
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Post by thestinger on Oct 30, 2007 13:22:07 GMT -5
You know that's funny because I've been wondering for years whatever happened with the original nWo. Like I mentioned a while ago, I got bored of WCW and stopped watching sometime after Goldberg won the World Title but before the Fingerpoke of Doom. I know that after the Fingerpoke the nWo Wolfpac and nWo Hollywood reunited, but I never heard what happened to the original nWo after that. Was the stable just dropped with no explanation? The plan was to have one, single heel nWo Wolfpac with six members -- Hogan, Hall, Nash, Scott Steiner, Luger and Buff Bagwell. Hogan and Nash kept ominously implying that soon the Wolfpac would be the only nWo faction. They started beating up members of the nWo black and white. The Giant and Kurt Hennig were kicked out and beaten up for no reason. They did vignettes with the black and white members Stevie Ray, Vince, Brian Adams and Scott Norton complaining about how they were being treated as 'second class.' I remember one Thunder very clearly where the Wolfpac were watching the Black and White guys secretly and Bagwell was mocking them. Hogan said ominously, "Well boys, you know what we have to do now...." Then, nothing. They did a brief silly angle where Hogan called each member of the black and white in and told each one HE was now the leader of the B team. The black and white held a battle royale with Stevie Ray becoming the leader. Then Hogan suddenly turned babyface and started feuding with Nash. Hall disappeared like always and the Wolfpac just faded away leaving only the black and white B team the Wolfpac kept promising they were going to do away with! Then Stevie Ray was helped out by his brother and Booker said, "I wanna see you take off those nWo colors!" They reformed Harlem Heat and the nWo was Brian Adams and Scott Norton with Vince hanging around. They just stopped wearing the colors. And it was a really bad way to end. |
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Post by hobo on Oct 30, 2007 13:28:22 GMT -5
Thanks guys, That's one thing that's always been bugging me over the years. I've seen videos of the Fingerpoke of Doom, but never knew what happened after that. By the time I came back the was just no more mention of nWo.
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Post by thestinger on Oct 30, 2007 13:51:17 GMT -5
No prob. I mean they were clearly building up to a scene where Hogan and the Wolfpac called the nWo guys into the ring and then just beat them up.
The Wolfpac were blatanly saying they were the only ones allowed to use the nWo logo and kept hinting, "Soon there won't be any ham and eggers in the nWo! We six are the elite, the Wolfpac!"
But for whatever reason, this scene never happened. Hogan and Flair were feuding over the world title and they started teasing a double face/heel turn. I think when the crowds started giving Hogan huge face pops they just decided to pull the trigger and do the double turn -- which was pretty good.
The problem is that it left a faction of nWo black and white midcarders who, let's face it, weren't going to be taking over anything anytime soon.
It's kind of funny to look back that only a month or two after the fingerpoke -- the most evil thing the nWo had ever done -- Hogan turned face for the first time in three years and got huge face pops.
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