Kevin Nash talks about the Fingerpoke of Doom

[thestinger]

yjc1019 said:

You do raise some points there, maybe I was just pissed at the time that the super over Wolfpac was forming together with Hollywood's faction.

I know, but you have to realize that Sting and Macho Man were already gone for the next year. The super over Wolfpac was down to Nash, Konnan and Luger. So Nash and Luger join up with Hogan and Konnan winds up in a tag team with Rey Jr.

Besides, fans missed they days where the original heel nWo inspired fear. The black and white at the time was being led by Scott Steiner, Giant, Norton, Hennig, and Bagwell, Virgil and Bryan Adams.

None of the original three members were in there! Some of those guys were ok, but I don't think they were in danger of taking over anything.

[Hiroshi Hase]

thestinger said:

yjc1019 said:

You do raise some points there, maybe I was just pissed at the time that the super over Wolfpac was forming together with Hollywood's faction.

I know, but you have to realize that Sting and Macho Man were already gone for the next year. The super over Wolfpac was down to Nash, Konnan and Luger. So Nash and Luger join up with Hogan and Konnan winds up in a tag team with Rey Jr.

Besides, fans missed they days where the original heel nWo inspired fear. The black and white at the time was being led by Scott Steiner, Giant, Norton, Hennig, and Bagwell, Virgil and Bryan Adams.

None of the original three members were in there! Some of those guys were ok, but I don't think they were in danger of taking over anything.

I guess and most good guy factions don't last long anyways, as in the WWE DX would dissolve a month or so later.

I guess Nash was right about people still talking about it because they were pissed.

[thestinger]

yjc1019 said:

I guess Nash was right about people still talking about it because they were pissed.

They did a good job of capitalizing on it though. Nash and Hogan did a HILARIOUS "The following has been paid for by the New World Order" segment with both men talking about how Hogan channelled all his life force into his finger and released it in one spot.

Hogan: "Well you taught me that, brother."

Nash: "Yeah, but for you to use it against me was brilliant!"

Then they started crying and yelling "turn off the cameras!"

You had Ric Flair as storyline commissioner ranting about how Hogan and Nash had disgraced the belt's legacy he worked so hard to build. Of course they did. They're the nWo. "Tradition bites!" Then the nWo stole Flair's son!

WCW was great. For a few weeks anyway. Then Goldberg got hurt, Flair insisted he turn heel (which was a disaster) and ratings continued to slide until the company replaced Biscoff with Russo (which was a bigger disaster.)

[Deleted]

Of course people still talk about it. But people still talk about David Arquette's reign and would anyone consider that a good thing? Theres good heat and bad heat and thats what so many people in WCW never seemed to realise. You can piss off the fans and make them wanna see the heel lose, or you can piss off the fans and make them wonder what the other team is doing

[HMARK Center]

I never understood the "Well, you're talking about it, so it MUST have worked!" argument. People still use it to justify things in modern wrestling promotions.

I may be talking about it, but if I'm not saying anything good and finishing up with "I don't think I'm going to watch anymore", that's NOT a positive thing.

Anyway, I actually LIKED the fingerpoke when it happened. I HATED the Wolfpac, and seeing Hogan, Nash, and Hall back together was fun for me. Then again, I hadn't been with WCW during the entire nWo run, so it wasn't like the entire concept was completely stale to me, either. Had I been watching religiously since 1996, I'm sure that, by then, I would've felt more "Ugh, again?".

[thestinger]

hitmanmark said:

Had I been watching religiously since 1996, I'm sure that, by then, I would've felt more "Ugh, again?".

I won't speak for you, but I doubt it. What WCW was doing at the time that was stale and predictable -- Goldberg squashing jobbers in 30 second matches, Konnan, Nash and Luger getting punked by Black and White B-grade wrestlers.

The reformed nWo was supposed to be a return to a heel six-member team who had a single unstoppable babyface foe (like Sting was with the original nWo.)

As Nash pointed out in the shoot, it's the same formula that's worked forever. Face chases the belt, wins it after a huge buildup, after a while he gets screwed out of it so it can happen all over again.

You have to make the fans angry their guy lost. How many times could Goldberg have beaten Jerry Flynn?

I think we're still talking about it because we got the part that made us mad, but we never got the payoff. Nash ended Goldberg's streak trhough BS and we didn't get to see a rematch between the two for like a year and a half, long after the nWo was history.

[Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone]

As a bit of a side note -- and not to take away from the conversation about the fingerpoke -- but I really think that Goldberg made Jerry Flynn famous. Seriously.... when you think of Goldberg squashing jobbers, Jerry Flynn is always one of the first guys who pops into mind. Would anyone remember Jerry Flynn if it wasn't for Goldberg making him famous?

Someone seriously needs to hire Jerry Flynn again and get him back on TV. His first promo will be a challenge to Goldberg, trying to get him out of retirement. That would be one of the funniest things ever! (Disclaimer: What's funny to me does not necessarily represent what's funny to the rest of thw world)

[thestinger]

Jerry Flynn 2007:

"Goldberg! You may have gotten the best of me before! But you got lucky all 136 times you beat me in under a minute!

Since 2000 I've watched all out matches over and over. I've determined that if I don't let you spear and jackhammer me immediately up your entrance theme ending, I've got a shot!

So come on out, Goldberg! Let's see if you can beat me 137 times in under one minute!!"

[skillz]

thestinger said:

hitmanmark said:

Had I been watching religiously since 1996, I'm sure that, by then, I would've felt more "Ugh, again?".

I won't speak for you, but I doubt it. What WCW was doing at the time that was stale and predictable -- Goldberg squashing jobbers in 30 second matches, Konnan, Nash and Luger getting punked by Black and White B-grade wrestlers.

The reformed nWo was supposed to be a return to a heel six-member team who had a single unstoppable babyface foe (like Sting was with the original nWo.)

As Nash pointed out in the shoot, it's the same formula that's worked forever. Face chases the belt, wins it after a huge buildup, after a while he gets screwed out of it so it can happen all over again.

You have to make the fans angry their guy lost. How many times could Goldberg have beaten Jerry Flynn?

I think we're still talking about it because we got the part that made us mad, but we never got the payoff. Nash ended Goldberg's streak trhough BS and we didn't get to see a rematch between the two for like a year and a half, long after the nWo was history.

Exactly. I don't know why people don't see that. The reason why Hogan/Sting was such a big deal was because they presented Sting as the only viable option to take Hogan (and the nWo) out, which is why the slow build worked beautifully. If Nash's booking plan is correct, then Goldberg was essentially going to play that role. It was the same role Austin played with McMahon during that time, more or less. That's basically the foundation of a wrestling storyline. They created an angle where Goldberg got screwed out of the belt and had to go through the entire nWo individually before getting another chance at Hogan. In the mean time, the nWo would look strong, making Goldberg's eventual win more important. That's the type of booking a company has to do with a guy like Goldberg.

Also, if you look at the ratings, the impact of the finger poke is a bit exaggerated.

1/04/99: 5.0 (finger poke)
1/11/99: 5.0
1/18/99: 4.4
1/25/99: 5.0
2/01/99: 4.7
2/08/99: 5.7
2/15/99: 3.9

I highly doubt the fans were so angry at the finger poke that they waited 5 whole weeks before doing a mass exodus to the WWF. Hell, WCW actually maintained their ratings the following week, whereas Raw went down one week after Foley's win (5.7 to 5.5).

I can understand why people hated the bait and switch with the main event, but the storyline itself had potential the way Nash laid it out.

[thestinger]

It's because as I wrote earlier, WCW tv got a lot better for a few weeks after the reformation of the nWo.

It all got screwed up because Goldberg got injured, and when he came back a year later, Hollywood Hogan was gone replaced Red and Yellow Hulkamania, and the nWo was gone.

[HMARK Center]

Oh, I understand that Goldberg chasing the nWo would've been fine, but the point is that, really, since Sting vs. nWo was supposed to be this cataclysmic event for WCW that changed the foundation of the company, I could see people getting frustrated upon basically seeing things being done all over again basically the same way, babyface hunting down the nWo to get to Hogan.

If some of the players involved were changed (i.e. maybe Hogan acts more as a figurehead, and Nash or somebody else becomes the big heel Goldberg's chasing) or some of the circumstances, it could've worked just fine, most likely. It's just that Hogan as champ, being protected by the nWo against a seemingly unstoppable babyface, had JUST been done with Sting...and the aftermath of Sting's win was pretty lackluster.

In other words: good idea in theory, but some things were wrong in the execution.

["Nature Boy" Ric Moranis]

That Dailymotion clip linked earlier in the thread with Nash about TNA, ROH, and Black Machismo is pretty good/interesting too. Other than him talking about how he could beat the X-Division guys in a real fight (which is probably true, even at his age), he's got a lot of good stuff to say about Shelley, Sabin, Lethal, and Dutt.

[Kevin Hamilton]

I laughed my butt off at the fingerpoke. I liked it.

[ilikeRusso.]

7 months of television Planned and Goldberg ruined it, Ok now i really wnana see Goldberg Suffer HE KILLED WCW.

[robferatu]

thestinger said:

It's because as I wrote earlier, WCW tv got a lot better for a few weeks after the reformation of the nWo.

It all got screwed up because Goldberg got injured, and when he came back a year later, Hollywood Hogan was gone replaced Red and Yellow Hulkamania, and the nWo was gone.

I think people tend to get Goldberg's injury time frame mixed up. After the whole finger poke of doom angle. Goldberg went on to fued with Scott Hall, Bam Bam Bigelow, Kevin Nash and Sting before being written off television to film Universal Soldier: The Return. While he was still actively on television Hogan dropped the belt to Flair and Kevin Nash turned face again, even winning the championship before Bill Goldberg took time off.

So, apparantly shortly after Hogan won the championship plans changed while Goldberg was still actively wrestling.

When Goldberg came back Hogan had returned as well, as a face and was fueding with Kevin Nash who had once again turned heel. So the "planned" booking for 1999 had been long thrown out to window due injuries, ego or what have you, but regardless it wasn't due to Goldberg getting injured.

[Cry Me a Wiggle]

Right. The whole evil Wolfpack storyline basically ended at Uncensored when Flair turned heel, and it was certifiably dead at Spring Stampede when Hogan went out with an "injury."

[Deleted]

jessie4950 said:

7 months of television Planned and Goldberg ruined it, Ok now i really wnana see Goldberg Suffer HE KILLED WCW.

WCW couldn't book 7 minutes in advance. I doubt they had panned 7 months.

[Hiroshi Hase]

brentreznor said:

jessie4950 said:

7 months of television Planned and Goldberg ruined it, Ok now i really wnana see Goldberg Suffer HE KILLED WCW.

WCW couldn't book 7 minutes in advance. I doubt they had panned 7 months.

I disagree, they had Bischoff's heel turn booked approximately 6 months in advance, dropping hints along the way, and even though the payoff was bad, Sting/Hogan was a year in the making, so even though you may not like WCW, they did have some good storylines here and there, at least to me they did.

[BHB]

I love how he talks aout Goldberg beeing booed and people saying "Goldberg sucks" to justify him losing the title, yet super face Cena gets booed every single match by a large part of the audience and gets to keep the belt for a year.

[thestinger]

Here's my final word on the subject:


To me: the angle was a success. There wasn't a single show that year that left my friends and I more excited about future stories than the fingerpoke. We all dug out our old nWo shirts we hadn't touched in a year and wore them the next day.

For a few weeks afterwards the quality of WCW tv improved. Goldberg had a mission now. He was feuding with Hall and all those main eventers Optimists Eat Babies! mentioned. No more squashing jobbers in 30 seconds on the third hour of Nitro he had a long climb back up the mountain. Only now it was possible he could lose because it had happened before.

It was the most evil thing the nWo ever did. Shockingly, disgracing the title's legacy made the belt relevant again. The belt meant nothing when the champ had a win loss record of 2,678 and 0 and had run out of people to beat.

Like I wrote earlier, we look back now, and it frustrates us because we never got the payoff we were supposed to like six or eight months later. We watched the part that was supposed to make us pissed off, and we never got the payoff.