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Post by yellowdog on Dec 25, 2007 10:57:56 GMT -5
As has already been said there are several examples of wrestlers taking inspiration and ideas from other characters.
There are more blatant examples than hogan/superstar like flar/rodgers and benoit/dynamite.
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Post by pathogen on Dec 25, 2007 13:22:45 GMT -5
Plageurism is very different to blatant theft IMO. I guess Hogan automatically came up as I'm more familiar with him, and I've always disliked everything about him. He is a thief who can't wrestle, yet people like him? Why is that? Does anyone disagrtee? I don't want a fight about it, I really am curious about why people like the guy.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Dec 25, 2007 13:28:50 GMT -5
Plageurism is very different to blatant theft IMO. I guess Hogan automatically came up as I'm more familiar with him, and I've always disliked everything about him. He is a thief who can't wrestle, yet people like him? Why is that? Does anyone disagrtee? I don't want a fight about it, I really am curious about why people like the guy. There are a thousand different definitions of a true wrestling great. Buckle up, because you'll be discovering a lot of them.
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Post by Doctorin' The Tardis on Dec 25, 2007 13:39:36 GMT -5
Plageurism is very different to blatant theft IMO. I guess Hogan automatically came up as I'm more familiar with him, and I've always disliked everything about him. He is a thief who can't wrestle, yet people like him? Why is that? Does anyone disagrtee? I don't want a fight about it, I really am curious about why people like the guy. I guess you didn't read anyone else's posts in here before posting this. Hogan didn't blatantly steal from Graham. Even in his earliest days as a heel, his interviews and wrestling style wasn't a direct rip-off from Graham. It was a similar, but not an exact copy BY ANY MEANS. I've seen a lot of Hogan's work from the era- WWWF, SECW, AWA (when he first came in as a heel with Valiant), CWA, and a little bit of his brief run against Igor in Florida. He wasn't a thief. If you call him a thief you have to call Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Jerry Lawler, Terry Funk, and practically everyone who's ever wrestled a thief because they've all borrowed (and a lot of times very heavily) from people who came before them thieves. They all adapt characterisitics of those who came before them into their own personalities to create their characters. As far as a saying he "couldn't" wrestle- you obviously haven't seen any of his Japan matches. In fact, he could wrestle and he did it quite well actually. He didn't NEED to chain wrestle to get his American hero gimmick over so he didn't. It wasn't necessary to chain wrestle Andre The Giant, King Kong Bundy, and Big John Studd. He was able to excite the crowds like no one else before or after without working five star matches. And there's nothing wrong with that, it's all part of wrestling. Not every match needs to be a technical classic in my view.
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Dec 25, 2007 14:11:24 GMT -5
Plageurism is very different to blatant theft IMO. I guess Hogan automatically came up as I'm more familiar with him, and I've always disliked everything about him. He is a thief who can't wrestle, yet people like him? Why is that? Does anyone disagrtee? I don't want a fight about it, I really am curious about why people like the guy. Because he's charismatic, and in that profession of wrestling, it certainly goes a long way than just some random 130 lb. indy wrestler who can chain-wrestle for an hour to silence from the crowd. It's meant to be entertainment, the actual moves matters very little. And besides, if you had read the other posts, you'd see that he wasn't the first "thief" and certainly wasn't the last in wrestling. Not everyone will like the same wrestlers, so don't waste your time racking your brain about it as it's just entertainment, nothing to take seriously at all.
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Post by pathogen on Dec 25, 2007 14:16:26 GMT -5
I've personally never seen any evidence that Hogan can wrestle in the 17 years I've watched wrestling, nor any evidence that anyone else was ripping anyone off, but, if people say so, I shall accept it all. I've watched one DVD, and come to the conclusion that he ripped everyone off. It took maybe an hour to reach this conclusion, surely it was worse for those fortunate enough to see AWA regularly? How on earth did he get popular? Even from the tiny amount of AWA I've seen, it was f***ing blatent! From my exposure, I have concluded that Hogan cannot wrestle, talk and stole his gmmic. Yet people the world over love him? I know the majority, especially in America, are as stupid as the chair I'm sitting on, but come on!
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Post by pathogen on Dec 25, 2007 14:17:05 GMT -5
By the way, the stupid comments are not aimed at anyone here, it's simply a fact.
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Dec 25, 2007 14:29:30 GMT -5
I've personally never seen any evidence that Hogan can wrestle in the 17 years I've watched wrestling, nor any evidence that anyone else was ripping anyone off, but, if people say so, I shall accept it all. I've watched one DVD, and come to the conclusion that he ripped everyone off. It took maybe an hour to reach this conclusion, surely it was worse for those fortunate enough to see AWA regularly? How on earth did he get popular? Even from the tiny amount of AWA I've seen, it was smurfing blatent! From my exposure, I have concluded that Hogan cannot wrestle, talk and stole his gmmic. Yet people the world over love him? I know the majority, especially in America, are as stupid as the chair I'm sitting on, but come on! And others are telling you that Hogan admitted that Superstar Billy Graham in many interviews was the inspiration for his gimmick. So it's not as if he just used it without crediting him, and apparently you are choosing to ignore the many other ripoffs like "Nature Boy" Ric Flair who got his name from Buddy Rogers, or "Nature Boy" Buddy Landell who tried to ripoff Flair, and many others. The reason why many love Hogan is not because of the stuff in the ring, as I've said before that matters very little. The only people who are hung up on that are smarks, which comprise the minority in the wrestling community. You just sound very bitter and angry about something that is not meant to be taken so seriously. And how is the majority of Americans "stupid" a fact anyways?
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Post by pathogen on Dec 25, 2007 14:56:41 GMT -5
Erm, dude, it is a fact. FFS you guys elected Bush to be your president, of course you're not that smart, off point though, sorry.
I'm not choosing to dislike Hogan, I actually tried very hard to get into him and enjoy his stuff. The guy cannot wrestle, or cut a coherent promo. Nature boys name is irrelevant, that's an homage, whereas Hogan is a ripoff. NObody has succeeded in making me see things differently. He has no worth. Children like him because they're not bright, and adults like him because they liked him when they were a kid. When I was a kid, I still didn't like the guy, and saw through his bullshit. It really wasn't difficult, the guy's an arse!
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Dec 25, 2007 15:01:29 GMT -5
Erm, dude, it is a fact. FFS you guys elected Bush to be your president, of course you're not that smart, off point though, sorry. I'm not choosing to dislike Hogan, I actually tried very hard to get into him and enjoy his stuff. The guy cannot wrestle, or cut a coherent promo. Nature boys name is irrelevant, that's an homage, whereas Hogan is a ripoff. NObody has succeeded in making me see things differently. He has no worth. Children like him because they're not bright, and adults like him because they liked him when they were a kid. When I was a kid, I still didn't like the guy, and saw through his bullreindeer droppings. It really wasn't difficult, the guy's an arse! That's just your opinion, not fact and seeing as we cannot discuss politics, I won't talk about that anymore. And what you've just said about Hogan, wasn't a fact either, just your opinion of the man. And you could say Hogan was paying homage to Graham as well. How is he an "arse" anyways? Do you know him personally or from what you've read about him on the internet? Still, I think you should take my advice and not take this so seriously. Wrestling isn't real, and the majority paying audience couldn't give two craps if the guy does a 720 Phoenix Splash or just punches/kicks, it's about entertainment. If he doesn't entertain you, fine, but saying you hate someone that you don't even know sounds ridiculous.
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Post by pathogen on Dec 25, 2007 15:09:18 GMT -5
I certainly don't hate the man, that's far too powerful an emotion to waste on someone so ineffectual to me. I'm not wound up at all, I've just never liked the guy and am curious to know what people see in him, especially considering his thieving behaviour. Even here, where there are many Hulkamaniacs, nobody has explained it to me cohesively. And, yeah, lets leave the politics to other sites, eh? I apologise.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Dec 25, 2007 15:10:00 GMT -5
Bye, pathogen.
Anyone else care to troll?
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Post by skillz on Dec 25, 2007 16:15:58 GMT -5
A delusional Hogan troll who brings up politics in a discussion about a fake sport and claims his opinions to be fact? Wow. Merry Christmas.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Dec 25, 2007 16:30:24 GMT -5
Let's move on. Despite the OP's trollish behavior, the actual subject is a good one regarding where all Hogan borrowed his stuff from. Let's keep it contained to that.
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Post by lildude8218 on Dec 25, 2007 16:40:08 GMT -5
Hogan always comes over to borrow a cup of sugar or flour, the occassional cup of coffee, and the bastard never returns the favor.
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 25, 2007 16:41:58 GMT -5
Hogan always comes over to borrow a cup of sugar or flour, the occassional cup of coffee, and the bastard never returns the favor. He borrowed a dinner plate from me and brought it back UNWASHED!!!!!
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Post by NOwave on Dec 25, 2007 18:32:03 GMT -5
Every wrestler takes things from older wrestlers. If nothing else, you copy extensively from whoever trained you as a wrestler. Virtually every other successful artist does too. Lennon and McCartney admitted they openly tried to copy Buddy Holly. Keith Richard has said he learned every lick he knows from Chuck Berry.
The best refine the things they steal to create their own style which is unique. Ric Flair obviously stole from Buddy Rogers, but no one would say he hasn't created his own incredible persona, with charisma that Rogers couldn't touch.
Hogan is the same way. His style certainly used elements of SSBG, but became much more than that. Most wrestlers will acknowledge his ability, even if they don't like him personally. Bret Hart, in his new autobiography rates Hogan as a 10 on a 1-10 scale for charisma, and look. (But only a 2 on ability to work in the ring.)
Another example would be Bret Hart himself. He admitted copying multiple wrestlers, including his father, Archie "The Stomper" Gouldie, Mr. Hito and many others. It's just a non-question.
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Post by lildude8218 on Dec 25, 2007 19:27:36 GMT -5
And Hogan isn't a terrible worker. He's no [insert some Japanese wrestler that hardly anyone has heard of here] but he was hardly the worst person to ever step in a ring. He may not have been technical but he knew how to work the crowd and tell a good story.
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Post by Square on Dec 25, 2007 19:35:48 GMT -5
And Hogan isn't a terrible worker. He's no Funaki but he was hardly the worst person to ever step in a ring. He may not have been technical but he knew how to work the crowd and tell a good story. Fixed for Awesomeness
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Post by Throwback on Dec 25, 2007 21:52:11 GMT -5
not to get to off topic but ummmmmmmmm jay lethal or what ever his name is. couldn't get more gimmick infringement than that. lol
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