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Post by sexualvanilla on Jan 4, 2008 2:42:41 GMT -5
I think the big thing McMahon was worried about was Bischoff announcing that they acquired Hart on Nitro while he was champion, which would've been just as bad
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Post by morishimahungry on Jan 4, 2008 3:12:10 GMT -5
I don't know what to think about the situation, for the longest time i thought vince and HBK were 100% in the wrong for what they did(granted i was still pretty young, only about 9/10 years old at the time), but now i feel more sympathy for them and feel bret was more in the wrong. Vince tries to work something out with Bret, who knew of the company's troubles, knew of Eric's hatred and past with medusa, and knew of the very serious threat his holding onto the belt caused, but yet he still offered totally unreasonable scenarios to vince.
From some things i've read he agreed to stay on to the next ppv(something he was not contracted for), drop the belt at a house show before Montreal(thus screwing his Canadian fans he supposedly loved so much out of the advertised match they paid for) or hand the belt to vince on Raw the next night(A slap in the face by leaving the company without putting over it's top star or even anybody) None of these scenarios would work in the grand scheme of things, but Bret has still being unreasonable
I think it was poor timing, because Vince was pretty much sattled into HBK/Bret already and couldn't change it and had such a limited time to get the belt off of Bret that his hand was really forced in this situation, now i'm guessing Shawn didn't help the situation at all and him and trips probably riled up vince once the idea was out there, but they were also two of the hardest working guys who were staying put on a at the time sinking ship, who had their careers to look out for, and felt disrespected by the notion of someone leaving the company without doing the job.
Looking back on all of this I really think Bret has himself to blame for this incident, and can't help but feel i would have done the same thing in Vince or Shawn's shoes, because the confrontation was started by Bret, he was leaving, and he refused what vince wanted to do in the first place, so i put most of the blame on him.
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Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on Jan 4, 2008 4:19:56 GMT -5
I don't know what to think about the situation, for the longest time i thought vince and HBK were 100% in the wrong for what they did(granted i was still pretty young, only about 9/10 years old at the time), but now i feel more sympathy for them and feel bret was more in the wrong. Vince tries to work something out with Bret, who knew of the company's troubles, knew of Eric's hatred and past with medusa, and knew of the very serious threat his holding onto the belt caused, but yet he still offered totally unreasonable scenarios to vince. From some things i've read he agreed to stay on to the next ppv(something he was not contracted for), drop the belt at a house show before Montreal(thus screwing his Canadian fans he supposedly loved so much out of the advertised match they paid for) or hand the belt to vince on Raw the next night(A slap in the face by leaving the company without putting over it's top star or even anybody) None of these scenarios would work in the grand scheme of things, but Bret has still being unreasonable I think it was poor timing, because Vince was pretty much sattled into HBK/Bret already and couldn't change it and had such a limited time to get the belt off of Bret that his hand was really forced in this situation, now i'm guessing Shawn didn't help the situation at all and him and trips probably riled up vince once the idea was out there, but they were also two of the hardest working guys who were staying put on a at the time sinking ship, who had their careers to look out for, and felt disrespected by the notion of someone leaving the company without doing the job. Looking back on all of this I really think Bret has himself to blame for this incident, and can't help but feel i would have done the same thing in Vince or Shawn's shoes, because the confrontation was started by Bret, he was leaving, and he refused what vince wanted to do in the first place, so i put most of the blame on him. I hear what you're saying, but from what I've heard, Bret was only responding this way because Shawn did virtually this same thing to him. He was supposed to drop the title back to Bret, but claimed "injury" kept him out. That's supposedly where all the "lost my smile" stuff came from. Whether Shawn was on the level, or Bret's suspicsions were right, none can say. Also, I guess Shawn said some really nasty things to Bret backstage, and the two had a huge brawl, which may have also added to Shawn's lack of interest in dropping the title to Bret. I dunno...before Shawn came returned from his back injury, the only clean title loss I can think of is his world title loss to Steve Austin. He and Diesal "forfitted" the tag belts when they broke up their team. He was "stripped" of the intercontinental belt when he was suspended...and never actually truly lost it to Razor Ramon in the first ladder match. He forfietted his second intercontinental title to Dean Douglas after supposedly being beaten by 38 guys in a bar or something. He "lost his smile" during his first world title run and forfetted it. Dude Love just basically replaced him when he and Steve Austin were tag champs, and he did a "finger poke of Doom" with Triple H to lose his European title. Not a great track record in those early days, IMO. For that, I do have to admit that I'm more willing to believe what Bret says than Shawn.
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Post by Throwback on Jan 4, 2008 9:38:10 GMT -5
Yes Shawn has a history of not dropping titles. But Bret was leaving the company as champ. which is something you NEVER do. Him leaving with the belt would have left alot of opportunities for the WCW. more than him throwing the belt in a garbage can. They could have had him drop it to someone like Ralphus which would make the WWF belt and Champion look worthless. Bret should have understood Vince's Concerns. As well as Vince should have told Bret the truth. "If you don't drop it, then we'll screw ya" .
Shawn was just the other guy and shouldn't carry any blame what so ever because the lockeroom is filled with guys that would have done the same thing.
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Post by valiens on Jan 4, 2008 9:52:25 GMT -5
Brett Hart. "Like family" to Vince. Turned down initial WCW offer for Vince. Was coaxed by Vince to leave when he couldn't afford the contract.
Does that sound like the guy Vince was worried about trashing the title in WCW?
I still don't understand why Vince, as owner of the company, didn't just tell Hart he had to lose the title that night. It's all scripted right? Soooooo script it!
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Post by Designated Drinker on Jan 4, 2008 10:08:02 GMT -5
I thought the DVD was great,still gotta watch the matches though.I've already seen them all before,looking forward to seeing them again.
About Montreal:Fact of the matter is Vince owns the belt,and whoever hold that belt has to job to whoever Vince wants them to regardless of if the wrestler likes it or not.Never thought i'd agree with HHH on anything,but in the DVD he says that if Bret didn't want to do buisiness then they'd do it for him which i think summs up my opinion on it pretty well.
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Cheeba
Don Corleone
Matt Striker for VP
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Post by Cheeba on Jan 4, 2008 11:48:35 GMT -5
The segment about the Hogan/Larry King skit was great. Hogan was his typical self and demanded a heel Shawn Michaels, and he got him. Awesome.
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Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on Jan 4, 2008 12:41:51 GMT -5
The segment about the Hogan/Larry King skit was great. Hogan was his typical self and demanded a heel Shawn Michaels, and he got him. Awesome. LOL! I know, it was so darn funny...but I dunno, at the end, when he super kicked Larry and then tore off the Hogan stuff and just glared into the camera...that was really intense stuff! Pretty cool. LOVED the Jerico/Triple H story about Shawn's poopy brown pants in the elimination chamber match!
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Post by The Booty Disciple on Jan 4, 2008 16:25:45 GMT -5
Yes Shawn has a history of not dropping titles. But Bret was leaving the company as champ. which is something you NEVER do. Him leaving with the belt would have left alot of opportunities for the WCW. more than him throwing the belt in a garbage can. They could have had him drop it to someone like Ralphus which would make the WWF belt and Champion look worthless. Bret should have understood Vince's Concerns. As well as Vince should have told Bret the truth. "If you don't drop it, then we'll screw ya" . Shawn was just the other guy and shouldn't carry any blame what so ever because the lockeroom is filled with guys that would have done the same thing. And didn't have much in the way of moral fortitude, seeing as the walkout on RAW the next night never happened because guys need thier checks to pay bills. Wrestling happens to be a pretty dirty business, and this is just a more publicly displayed situation that was common in the regional territories, I'd bet.
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