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Post by Red Impact on Aug 10, 2008 16:36:00 GMT -5
They confirmed that BTB&C is in fact a chain match with both guys wearing tuxedos. Hopefully not with the aim of stripping each other of them. I thought they said on Impact that that's exactly what they had to do?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2008 18:52:01 GMT -5
They confirmed that BTB&C is in fact a chain match with both guys wearing tuxedos. Hopefully not with the aim of stripping each other of them. I thought they said on Impact that that's exactly what they had to do? Indeed they did. My hearing still hasn't returned after the trauma of Don West screaming about two grown men trying "to strip each other and humiliate each other". I'm watching the PPV, but I'm keeping some bleach for my eyes at my table just in case, ya know?
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Post by slasher911 on Aug 11, 2008 1:21:58 GMT -5
I'm still missing how any guy who spends his time wrestling in speedo trunks and/or uber-tight tights would ever feel humiliated by being stripped out of a tuxedo. Wouldn't that just be normal for them?...
That and it's a ridiculously stupid gimmick match, but still.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Aug 11, 2008 1:50:12 GMT -5
Isn't Lockdown supposed to be the most dangerous hardcore ppv of the year?
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Post by Ace Diamond on Aug 11, 2008 3:23:16 GMT -5
Isn't Lockdown supposed to be the most dangerous hardcore ppv of the year? Pfft. Course not, there's nothing hardcore about steel cages.
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chairshotshurthead
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Post by chairshotshurthead on Aug 11, 2008 3:45:26 GMT -5
Gimmick matches are fine as long as you use them right. But gimmick matches should really only be used: 1. Sparingly. 2. When they make sense. (eg. when a feud's gotten too intense to be settled by a straight match) And 3. When they serve a purpose (eg. to pay off the build of a feud or storyline.) The thing is, TNA's creative team (and probably Russo in particular) don't seem to think anybody watches a wrestling program to see wrestling, but they know they have to give it to them, so they load the matches up with a ton of bullcrap that only serves to overcomplicate the match, confuse the audience, and drag down the performance of the talent who could probably have a far better match that the audience would enjoy more if they just did it straight. I think a large part of the reason they do so many of these gimmick matches probably has something to do with the fact that the ones Raven brought in (Clockwork Orange House of Fun, Hangman's Gallows, Monster's Ball, etc.) actually worked. But the difference between those matches and most of the crap they do now is that they made sense, were simple and straightforward and had a friggin point. Where's the point in matches where you have to fight to GET IN THE RING, where you have to get a briefcase off a pole that can GET YOU FIRED, or where you're chained to your opponent while wearing a tuxedo for no reason and have the OPTION of winning by STRIPPING HIM? Free advice: less is more. You pack up your shows with gimmick matches and follow that with more gimmick matches, over and over and over again, big surprise it gets old real fast. You pack a card with 5 thousand gimmicks in every match, by the time you reach the main event, nobody gives a crap anymore (which, strangely enough, is EXACTLY what happened to the main of Hard Justice. ) Hell, when you get to the point where a REGULAR MATCH is a special attraction, you're doing something wrong. The sad thing is, it's probably never going to get better, such as with most things in TNA, until they get rid of this clueless creative crew who don't know what they're doing because they're too pigheaded to admit their mistakes, and therefore don't do anything to correct them. Case in point: Heel Sting. Didn't work the first time, won't work now. That's my 2 cents anyway.
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Post by derrtaysouth95 on Aug 11, 2008 9:53:09 GMT -5
I think Final Resolution would be the appropriate ppv for just straight wrestling.
It's a wrestling company who's primary focus should be wrestling. The Final Resolution to a feud is a fight. A proper fight, not a gimmick battle. Therefore, FR should be the wrestling ppv that features actual wrestling.
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Post by toodarkmark on Aug 11, 2008 14:24:10 GMT -5
The Fire Russo chants were loud during the Lethal-Dutt match.
At first I was pissed off about all the gimmick matches. But I did enjoy the NJ Street Fight, and the main event. I think they needed to do a better job promoting the fact that Hard Justice is a hardcore event. They never really mentioned it.
Too many gimmick matches does water down the concept. Russo doesn't really get the "too much is too much" idea. He's all about throwing as much crap at the wall that he can and seeing what sticks. But so has McMahon and it's worked for him.
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Post by no1tnamark on Aug 11, 2008 16:15:30 GMT -5
I'm still scratching my head on the reverse battle royal.
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Post by Threadkiller [Classic] on Aug 12, 2008 3:14:03 GMT -5
Too many gimmick matches does water down the concept. Russo doesn't really get the "too much is too much" idea. He's all about throwing as much crap at the wall that he can and seeing what sticks. But so has McMahon and it's worked for him. Honestly though, McMahon's shit-on-the-wall to success ratio is huge these days. He has to throw a LOT at the wall before any of it sticks. The problem is that Vince, much like Russo, would rather throw crap on the wall instead of using the bucket of paint that's RIGHT THERE. They have a ton of talent. They don't need lame gimmick matches or silly, melodramatic angles to put on a great show. And I'd wager a bet that a straight wrestling show would do the same numbers as a gimmick heavy wankfest.
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Post by mrjl on Aug 12, 2008 17:50:34 GMT -5
Already posted about this in the Hard Justice thread. It is getting horrible. The worst case however was when they had a "King of the Mountain" match with the X-Division wrestlers on the iMPACT BEFORE Slammiversary. The amtch was good no doubt but that is on the same calibur of WWE having an elimination chamber on the Smackdown before a PPV where the main event is a chamber match. I may also add that the King of the Mountain match had little to no hype either. REALLY WCW 2000 stuff right here. Well the point of the KoTM on Impact was to hype the KoTM at the PPV. And the WWF/E has done that on occasion. I remember back in the Attitude era where they had a Survivor Series match on Smackdown just a few days before the Survivor Series.
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chairshotshurthead
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Post by chairshotshurthead on Aug 12, 2008 20:00:31 GMT -5
Already posted about this in the Hard Justice thread. It is getting horrible. The worst case however was when they had a "King of the Mountain" match with the X-Division wrestlers on the iMPACT BEFORE Slammiversary. The amtch was good no doubt but that is on the same calibur of WWE having an elimination chamber on the Smackdown before a PPV where the main event is a chamber match. I may also add that the King of the Mountain match had little to no hype either. REALLY WCW 2000 stuff right here. Well the point of the KoTM on Impact was to hype the KoTM at the PPV. And the WWF/E has done that on occasion. I remember back in the Attitude era where they had a Survivor Series match on Smackdown just a few days before the Survivor Series. And you don't see the difference between having a one ten-person tag match to build for a PPV where a number of them take place, and throwing away your big drawing stipulation match on free TV on the last show before you're asking people to buy the same thing for $40 a piece?
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Post by RedSmile on Aug 12, 2008 23:12:17 GMT -5
Sounds like Traditional matches will be the gimmick match before long
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Post by Chinny Reckon on Aug 13, 2008 9:49:33 GMT -5
Surely a PPV needs some gimmick-y matches to sell it as something a bit different to the weekly TV show? "Black Tie Brawl and Chain" is a fairly dumb idea, but, you know, no-one's getting tarred-and-feathered, no-one's going to have to kiss an elderly millionaire's bare backside, and, hell, it's not like it's the resolution to the biggest, card-topping, played-dead-serious feud they've ever come up with.
Come on... Jay Lethal has somehow become Randy Savage, with So-Cal Val as his Elizabeth; George "The Animal" Steele, Koko B. Ware and Kamala are guests at the in-ring wedding (that's the in-ring wedding, folks); Sanjay Dutt is a creepy stalker and a "guru"; Shark Boy dressed as Stone Cold, EY in a cape and Christopher Daniels with a Chicken Korma on his head are responsible for finding the missing ring... in Sanjay's pants, no less... What kind of match would you like as the climax to this maverick piece of character development? Seriously, a straight 1-on-1 match? Perhaps some sort of po-faced showcase of real in-ring skill, like a 60-minute Iron Man match?
Gimmick storylines need gimmick matches. I'd suggest that the reason TNA is so obsessed with gimmick storylines is perhaps less to do with the current booking team (although they're also the people who brought us AJ Styles as Forrest Gump in a crown), and more a hang-over from the not-so-distant days when everything TNA did was PPV, and they were desperate for attention. Maybe the company still retains the mindset of "We might go out of business any day! Quick! Do something wacky!"
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