TR's Top Ten horror flicks of all time

[Big DSR Energy]

Oct 26, 2008 13:04:11 GMT -5 Jiren said:

I will not stand for anyone dissing "Friday V: A new beginning".

It's not that bad plus it's much better than the new line series

I wished the Tommy Jarvis through-line from Final Chapter and New Beginning had continued in Jason Lives. Instead, they watered Tommy down to basically just being a slightly weird, obsessed kid. I'd rather he had gone full-blown psychopath, like hinted at at the end of Part 5, then go out for one last showdown with Jason in Part 6.

Aside from Tommy, though, A New Beginning is one hell of a dark comedy. Even if the people responsible for the film didn't know that that's what they were making.

[Jiren]

Oct 26, 2008 13:31:24 GMT -5 Big DSR Energy said:

Oct 26, 2008 13:04:11 GMT -5 Jiren said:

I will not stand for anyone dissing "Friday V: A new beginning".

It's not that bad plus it's much better than the new line series

I wished the Tommy Jarvis through-line from Final Chapter and New Beginning had continued in Jason Lives. Instead, they watered Tommy down to basically just being a slightly weird, obsessed kid. I'd rather he had gone full-blown psychopath, like hinted at at the end of Part 5, then go out for one last showdown with Jason in Part 6.

Aside from Tommy, though, A New Beginning is one hell of a dark comedy. Even if the people responsible for the film didn't know that that's what they were making.

The reason I like it is because it's watchable, It's not a great movie but I enjoy it.

The same can't be said about the New Line series

[Lick Ness Monster]

I personally would have enjoyed it BEST if they had just stuck to their guns and made The Final Chapter, well...the final chapter.

I know it would have cost them millions in revenue, but if the F13 series had solely consisted of those first four films, it would (I believe) be looked at today as a great time period piece of what horror in that era was all about instead of the joke that the series eventually became with the endless sequels (even compared to other franchises).

And hey, everyone, did you know that Amy Steele's character in Friday the 13th Part II was originally going to be in the Tommy Jarvis role? Essentially, the script that wound up being used for New Beginning was going to be Part 3, with Steele in the lakeside house having nightmares of Jason and a copycat killer, and a DEAD Jason, never to be seen again. The end of the film would have been the swerve of New Beginning, with STEELE going crazy and being the killer in Part 4. Yes, folks, the original plan for the series was to turn it into "Ginny the Killer" (somehow, Freddy vs. Ginny just doesn't have the same ring to it ;D).

But...Steele backed out at the last minute, a move that she now says she regrets. So, they had to do another movie that set up a crazy survivor to take the killer mantle, which led to Chris (the heroine in Part 3 having some serious mental instability issues, and going nuts at the end of her ordeal with Jason. However, Dana Kimmell wasn't quite the horror film buff they thought she was, so that plan got ditched as well.

AND SO...they had to do another "set up a crazy survivor" movie - this one. And as everyone knows, they were all ready to go with Tommy Jarvis being the killer for the remainder of the series after New Beginning - but, by that point, it had been three movies with Jason and the fans had gotten used to him.

Rather than deal with all that, I would have just preferred TFC to be the LAST one. PERFECT end for the series.

And Doom, I actually agree with you that ANB is better than the New Line films. Marginally better, but better nonetheless.

[Big DSR Energy]

Oct 26, 2008 13:38:08 GMT -5 Jiren said:

Oct 26, 2008 13:31:24 GMT -5 Big DSR Energy said:

I wished the Tommy Jarvis through-line from Final Chapter and New Beginning had continued in Jason Lives. Instead, they watered Tommy down to basically just being a slightly weird, obsessed kid. I'd rather he had gone full-blown psychopath, like hinted at at the end of Part 5, then go out for one last showdown with Jason in Part 6.

Aside from Tommy, though, A New Beginning is one hell of a dark comedy. Even if the people responsible for the film didn't know that that's what they were making.

The reason I like it is because it's watchable, It's not a great movie but I enjoy it.

The same can't be said about the New Line series

I'm not disagreeing with you. I think A New Beginning is a pretty fun movie to watch, even if it's not, artistically speaking, very good. But, I also rather liked the portrayal of Tommy Jarvis. It seemed pretty natural that he would've gone crazy after the events of Final Chapter, and I liked that New Beginning was like a build-up to Tommy becoming an actual murderous psychopath. But I wanted Jason Lives to follow through, and it didn't. Still though, Part 5 is pretty fun.

[Lick Ness Monster]

#3.



SUSPIRIA
1977
Director: Dario Argento

Brief, brief plot synopsis: Suzy Banyon (Jessica Harper), an American ballet student, makes her way to a prestigious school in Germany. Ominous overtures accentuate the movie from the very first scene, and within the film’s first twenty minutes, another student at Suzy’s new school is viciously murdered by an unseen assailant. As the film continues, assertions are made about those who run the school while two more people with bones to pick against the school wind up dead in very brutal fashion. Now facing the terror of her situation alone, Banyon must confront the possible terrifying secrets all centered around one question – just where do the instructors go at night if they don’t leave the building?



TR’s thoughts: The thing about Dario’s movie that is just so captivating is just how real the whole thing seems – it takes a fairly innocuous setting and turns it into a veritable carnival of terror. Suspiria is, put simply, one of the most frightening films you’ll ever see and one of the most exhilarating experiences in the history of cinema. It starts out tense with that great rain scene, then they give you the most brutal murder scene of all time, then they throw what is perhaps the creepiest musical score in movie history at you, and then there’s that nightmarish ending scene. Almost two hours of tension that doesn’t let up.

Villain ruminations: For much of the film, we are truly unsure of just what the villain in Suspiria is supposed to be – indeed, for much of the movie all we see is a pair of hands and a knife represented as our antagonist. But the glory of this film's villainous ways – and the first “Mother” in Argento’s fated Three Mothers trilogy – is the web that Dario weaves, and in uncovering the multi-faceted terror that has trapped our heroine.



Why it deserves to be in this spot: Suspiria creates the most oppressively suspenseful atmosphere of any horror film I’ve ever seen. While the kill scenes are few and far between, when they appear, Dario makes them count – few can top Argento when it comes to creative murder scenes (see Tenebre and Deep Red for further proof), and this film boasts perhaps the best one of all time. This is a genuinely well-acted and well-written film with truly nightmarish twists and turns.

[Lick Ness Monster]

Thoughts on Suspiria and/or Argento's work?

Btw, I confess that I'd never seen the vast majority of his films until just recently. I'd seen Suspiria six or seven years ago, but over the past month, I've tracked down a copy of and seen pretty much all of them. Tenebre is an awesome movie, as is Inferno. Those would be my top three of JUST Dario.

[Rorschach]

I'd heard MOTHER OF TEARS was just awful, and that Argento has lost his touch. That's pretty much all I can add to this one, TR. Not too overly familiar with the giallo genre, though I DO own SUSPIRIA....of course, what self respecting horror fan DOESN'T?

[Big DSR Energy]

The thing I really love about Suspiria is that it's a movie purely about mood. Like you said, we really don't get much in the way of an out-and-out villain for much of the movie, but Argento just does so much with the situation and this ultra-surreal approach that you often find yourself terrified, even if you don't really know why. The score obviously adds so much to that mood, and Goblin should be commended for it.

But ultimately, it feels like your watching a fairy tale and a nightmare wrapped together. I don't think I've ever seen something so dark and ominous, and yet at the same time so vibrant. I haven't seen quite enough of Argento's work, but I can understand how people would say that he's lost his touch over the years. Suspiria is an extremely difficult movie to top.

[Lick Ness Monster]

Oct 28, 2008 1:14:12 GMT -5 Big DSR Energy said:

The thing I really love about Suspiria is that it's a movie purely about mood. Like you said, we really don't get much in the way of an out-and-out villain for much of the movie, but Argento just does so much with the situation and this ultra-surreal approach that you often find yourself terrified, even if you don't really know why. The score obviously adds so much to that mood, and Goblin should be commended for it.

But ultimately, it feels like your watching a fairy tale and a nightmare wrapped together. I don't think I've ever seen something so dark and ominous, and yet at the same time so vibrant. I haven't seen quite enough of Argento's work, but I can understand how people would say that he's lost his touch over the years. Suspiria is an extremely difficult movie to top.

Hey, DSR, since you're a horror nut, by any chance you're not a member over on horror.com, are you?

I just signed up for their forum and got banned for spamming within three minutes - before I even made a post.

WTF??!

Lesson learned for the day - no forum is as cool as this one.

[Big DSR Energy]

Oct 28, 2008 1:35:40 GMT -5 Lick Ness Monster said:

Oct 28, 2008 1:14:12 GMT -5 Big DSR Energy said:

The thing I really love about Suspiria is that it's a movie purely about mood. Like you said, we really don't get much in the way of an out-and-out villain for much of the movie, but Argento just does so much with the situation and this ultra-surreal approach that you often find yourself terrified, even if you don't really know why. The score obviously adds so much to that mood, and Goblin should be commended for it.

But ultimately, it feels like your watching a fairy tale and a nightmare wrapped together. I don't think I've ever seen something so dark and ominous, and yet at the same time so vibrant. I haven't seen quite enough of Argento's work, but I can understand how people would say that he's lost his touch over the years. Suspiria is an extremely difficult movie to top.

Hey, DSR, since you're a horror nut, by any chance you're not a member over on horror.com, are you?

I just signed up for their forum and got banned for spamming within three minutes - before I even made a post.

WTF??!

Lesson learned for the day - no forum is as cool as this one.

Nope, never even heard of it. I'm a member of the forums at Gorezone.net, though. They're pretty cool people, although there's not a whole lot of talkin' going on at their forums.

[Rorschach]

I hang out at DreadCentral's boards every now and again. There are some pretty cool cats over there.

[Strotha]

Yes, Suspiria made the list!I love that movie!

[Lick Ness Monster]

And now for perhaps the entry I was looking forward to the most - the single most under-respected movie on this forum's recent top 175 horror movies countdown and one of the greatest FILMS of all time.



#2.

NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 3: DREAM WARRIORS
1987
Director: Chuck Russell

Brief, brief plot synopsis: Several children at a psychiatric ward have been having recurring nightmares where a monstrous man is attempting to kill them. The staff at the facility believes their shared nightmare to be a shared mass hysteria, or perhaps the byproduct of guilt – but Nancy Thompson (Heather Langenkamp), the survivor of the first Nightmare on Elm Street, knows what these children face – Freddy Krueger (Robert Englund), a child killer burned to death by the citizens of Springwood, Ohio many years ago, and has now come back to avenge his death by killing his killers’ children in their sleep. Realizing that they must confront their fears, the children of Elm Street prepare themselves for battle against the ultimate dream demon.



TR’s thoughts: Before I get started, man, how can people POSSIBLY think that the first movie is better than this one? Now that that’s out of the way - one thing that really burns my ass is how everybody says that horror movies are so stupid – and this movie is proof that they’re anything but. It’s a great scary tale, with more than a few great jump scenes, and the most sadistic, badass version of Freddy Krueger ever put on film, but it’s about so much more than that. And now for the part that will make me unpopular - technically speaking, this movie HAS to be better than the first film. The first film is essentially a good slasher flick (not that there's anything wrong with that) and, while it had ambitions to be more than that, it failed. This movie had ambitions to be so much more than just a horror film, and succeeds marvelously. This movie IS life – it’s facing challenges and adversity and rising above it, knowing that the power that you have within yourself is the power that you need to achieve all the things you want to achieve. In short, this is THE comeback movie for the “all horror films suck” people.



Villain ruminations: The best version of Freddy Krueger ever seen on film – just like Jason in TFC, the Dream Warriors version of Freddy is the definitive version of the character. He is silent and stealthy when he needs to be, but at the same time, creative, giddy, and even occasionally cracking a one-liner. Dream Warriors strikes the best balance in the series between scary and schlock; it celebrates Freddy as being a truly scary villain, a man who greatly enjoys his job and who truly feels no sympathy for the horror and suffering that he inflicts upon others for no other reason than because he likes it, while also remembering that such an ingenious character can also be used for fun moments. Welcome to prime time, bitch!



Why it deserves to be here: The first Nightmare on Elm Street, while a scary film with excellent horror sequences, features characters that do not hold up well over the test of time. Dream Warriors more than stands the test of time; its themes and truly powerful story resonate well with teenage crowds even today, while its “true will can conquer anything” motif is a cultural universal. In addition, legendary character actor Englund’s portrayal of Freddy is a landmark, and Patricia Arquette turns in a tour-de-force performance as lead Dream Warrior Kristen. In short, this isn’t just one of the best horror films of all time – it’s one of the best MOVIES of all time.

[Big DSR Energy]

I, uh...don't hold Dream Warriors in the same high regard as you do, TR. But, I'll start with what I liked about it:

It obviously doesn't adhere to slasher sequel conventions. There isn't one single Final Girl, as nearly all the characters in peril put in a good effort to defeat the villain, and the story isn't merely a rehash of the first movie. They brought back important characters from the first movie, and made them important in new ways. And aside from those old characters, a decent portion of the new actors and actresses show some chops (it's no surprise Patricia Arquette and Larry Fishburne became bigger stars after this picture).

But, this movie is the first to give us "funny Freddy." While I can't entirely blame this movie for the self-parody the series would fall into in later installments, I feel that Dream Warriors has to be at least a little bit accountable for it. I actually didn't like the "Welcome to prime time, bitch!" line. I also rolled my eyes a bit at some of the Dream Warriors, i.e. "In my dreams I'm beautiful...and bad!" and the D & D kid was pretty groan inducing, too. And there's the one black kid who talks like a token mid-80s black kid (referring to Freddy as "sucka" etc.).

I think the overall themes and concept of the movie are pretty damn good, but there's no way I'd consider the overall movie quite as good as you do.

[Lick Ness Monster]

Oct 29, 2008 0:11:09 GMT -5 Big DSR Energy said:

I, uh...don't hold Dream Warriors in the same high regard as you do, TR. But, I'll start with what I liked about it:

It obviously doesn't adhere to slasher sequel conventions. There isn't one single Final Girl, as nearly all the characters in peril put in a good effort to defeat the villain, and the story isn't merely a rehash of the first movie. They brought back important characters from the first movie, and made them important in new ways. And aside from those old characters, a decent portion of the new actors and actresses show some chops (it's no surprise Patricia Arquette and Larry Fishburne became bigger stars after this picture).

But, this movie is the first to give us "funny Freddy." While I can't entirely blame this movie for the self-parody the series would fall into in later installments, I feel that Dream Warriors has to be at least a little bit accountable for it. I actually didn't like the "Welcome to prime time, bitch!" line. I also rolled my eyes a bit at some of the Dream Warriors, i.e. "In my dreams I'm beautiful...and bad!" and the D & D kid was pretty groan inducing, too. And there's the one black kid who talks like a token mid-80s black kid (referring to Freddy as "sucka" etc.).

I think the overall themes and concept of the movie are pretty damn good, but there's no way I'd consider the overall movie quite as good as you do.

If you want to blame somebody for the one-liner machine Freddy Krueger would become, blame Renny Harlin, the director of The Dream Master. On the DVD extras in the ANOES box set, he himself states the following: "It had been three movies of Freddy Krueger popping up out of nowhere, wow - people weren't scared by it anymore. So I felt he needed to be the hero of the series, like James Bond."

Besides, Nightmare 4 is where Freddy crossed that line, anyway. Sorry if I came on strong there, but Dream Warriors is a movie that I'm very passionate about.

True story - I manage a fast food establishment (as sad as that is), and thus work with a lot of teenagers. I've borrowed this flick out to more than a few of them and, without fail, come back with comments of the "that movie was sick!" and "it was awesome!" ilk. Considering how most horror movies from the '80s make today's teenagers groan, I can't come up with a much more ringing endorsement than that. ;D

[Big DSR Energy]

Oct 29, 2008 1:42:41 GMT -5 Lick Ness Monster said:

Oct 29, 2008 0:11:09 GMT -5 Big DSR Energy said:

I, uh...don't hold Dream Warriors in the same high regard as you do, TR. But, I'll start with what I liked about it:

It obviously doesn't adhere to slasher sequel conventions. There isn't one single Final Girl, as nearly all the characters in peril put in a good effort to defeat the villain, and the story isn't merely a rehash of the first movie. They brought back important characters from the first movie, and made them important in new ways. And aside from those old characters, a decent portion of the new actors and actresses show some chops (it's no surprise Patricia Arquette and Larry Fishburne became bigger stars after this picture).

But, this movie is the first to give us "funny Freddy." While I can't entirely blame this movie for the self-parody the series would fall into in later installments, I feel that Dream Warriors has to be at least a little bit accountable for it. I actually didn't like the "Welcome to prime time, bitch!" line. I also rolled my eyes a bit at some of the Dream Warriors, i.e. "In my dreams I'm beautiful...and bad!" and the D & D kid was pretty groan inducing, too. And there's the one black kid who talks like a token mid-80s black kid (referring to Freddy as "sucka" etc.).

I think the overall themes and concept of the movie are pretty damn good, but there's no way I'd consider the overall movie quite as good as you do.

If you want to blame somebody for the one-liner machine Freddy Krueger would become, blame Renny Harlin, the director of The Dream Master. On the DVD extras in the ANOES box set, he himself states the following: "It had been three movies of Freddy Krueger popping up out of nowhere, wow - people weren't scared by it anymore. So I felt he needed to be the hero of the series, like James Bond."

Besides, Nightmare 4 is where Freddy crossed that line, anyway. Sorry if I came on strong there, but Dream Warriors is a movie that I'm very passionate about.

True story - I work at a fast food establishment (as sad as that is), and thus work with a lot of teenagers. I've borrowed this flick out to more than a few of them and, without fail, come back with comments of the "that movie was sick!" and "it was awesome!" ilk. Can't come up with a much more ringing endorsement than that. ;D

No need to apologize. But I've sorta always seen it as this: in Dream Warriors, Freddy flirted with comedy. In Part 4, he took comedy out to dinner and hooked up with it in his backseat.

And, I'll remind you, there were parts of the movie that I liked, and I think they outweigh the bad. I just don't like this movie nearly enough that I would rank it this high.

[Lick Ness Monster]

Come on, people - let's have a few more posts for Nightmare 3. Give it up for the ultimate Freddy Krueger film - or tell me why I'm wrong, whatever you feel like.

#1 movie is coming up...as soon as I get off work. What's #1, at least the way it's presented, will surprise many.

['Smart' Mark Poindexter]

Hell I'll give Nightmare 3 it's props and agree that it was a bit better then the first and way better then any that followed.

[Jiren]

Nightmare 3 was my favourite in the series.

Yes it planted the seeds for "Joker Freddy" but in 3 his Joker role was just sadistic because he played with his victims knowing full well they're in his yard and they're basically snorked.

After that though it just got stupid, I LIKE the "Dream Master" but it was missed opportunity for a awesome end for the Nightmare series.

Plus it had the most kickass trailer

[andrew8798]

One of my favorites I put it behind the First Nightmare as the best of the series and I liked the "Welcome to prime time, bitch!" line.