2012 is Stupid

[biafra]

I heard the conquistadors went ninja on them muthaf**as.

[Jason Todd Grisham]

Jan 5, 2009 17:09:13 GMT -5 biafra said:

I heard the conquistadors went ninja on them muthaf**as.

It helps when Cortes burns your boats down and tells you that since there's no way home, might as well conquer a civilization.

[SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman]

Oh yeah, s***. I mixed up. The Mayans disappeared long before the Conquistadors showed up, and for no discern able reason either. So please forget the stupid things I just said and look at this stick. I am the most awesome person this World ever had and you want to give me your girlfriend and your money.

[Koda, Master Crunchyroller]

Oh yeah, that's right all the things we discussed were the Aztecs....now those guys were STUPID. Thinking Cortes was one of their Gods reincarnated....

[blef]

I remember Y2K........

My boss at the time asked if we'd backed up all our info, just in case. I said, "Yes, I wrote all 10 addresses down on paper." She totally couldn't sense the sarcasm that everyone else heard and later laughed hysterically at.

[The Line]

So, my point still stands that if the Mayans were so good at predicting the future, then yeah, they suck

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2009 17:22:07 GMT -5 Koda, Master Crunchyroller said:

Oh yeah, that's right all the things we discussed were the Aztecs....now those guys were STUPID. Thinking Cortes was one of their Gods reincarnated....

Pardon, but the Aztecs were hardly stupid; the entire story about glorifying Cortes may have been nothing more than fabrication by the Spanish in their accounts. On the other hand, it may not be, but accusing them of stupidity for something that may very well have not happened is a bit unfair to them.

[Dave at the Movies]

Did someone say Conquistadors?

[Bo Rida]

There's a few viable reasons that a large chunk of the earths population could be wiped out (super volcanoes, magnetic poles swapping, mad scientists, sun storms etc), they could happen tomorrow or in a few thousand years time, 2012 just ties it in nicely.

I'm thinking about making some "I survived 2012" merchandise but I would feel pretty silly if we all died.

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2009 18:21:12 GMT -5 Dave at the Movies said:

Did someone say Conquistadors?

That's one of my all-time favorite tag teams. As a child I would always mark out when they were around. My favorite moment of theirs was when they both started freaking out at Survivor Series when the Powers of Pain turned heel.

I wish someone could bring them back in their 1980's form. That'd be the bees' knees.

[Dave at the Movies]

Jan 5, 2009 18:22:37 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

There's a few viable reasons that a large chunk of the earths population could be wiped out (super volcanoes, magnetic poles swapping, mad scientists, sun storms etc), they could happen tomorrow or in a few thousand years time, 2012 just ties it in nicely.

I'm thinking about making some "I survived 2012" merchandise but I would feel pretty silly if we all died.

Oh believe me I'm sure shirts that say that are already in the planning stages for big corporate entities. I bet they even got shirts for if the apocalypse happens...........stupid yuppies.

[Marc4u23]

The rain will kill us all.

[JacopeX]

If anyone in this forum actually believes anything will happen in 2012 or the end of the world in general, I am going to leave this forum for good. No questions asked.

[Koda, Master Crunchyroller]

Jan 5, 2009 18:04:10 GMT -5 @mightykretzler said:

Jan 5, 2009 17:22:07 GMT -5 Koda, Master Crunchyroller said:

Oh yeah, that's right all the things we discussed were the Aztecs....now those guys were STUPID. Thinking Cortes was one of their Gods reincarnated....

Pardon, but the Aztecs were hardly stupid; the entire story about glorifying Cortes may have been nothing more than fabrication by the Spanish in their accounts. On the other hand, it may not be, but accusing them of stupidity for something that may very well have not happened is a bit unfair to them.

Granted, to their defense they built their capital city in the middle of a f***ing lake, and to do that you need to have some smarts, but still, even if the Cortes = a God thing was false, they still allowed Cortes and his allies(enemies of the Aztecs) to just waltz right into Tenochtitlan, and eventually conquer them.

You don't just let your enemies walk right into your capital city and let them be guests there until tensions get too high. I could understand them allowing the Spanish in, as they never seen them before, but they were bitter enemies of the Tlaxcallans, whom the Spanish allied with and brought with them into Tenochtitlan. You just don't do that. That would be like the Greeks just allowing the Persians to walking into their major city-states, or the Romans allowing the Carthaginians or later the Goths/Huns to just walk into Rome without trouble, or even America allowing Nazis or Communists to just enter. It is stupid to allow one of your greatest enemies, an enemy you hate to death and had many fights with, just walk into your capital city. That right there is utter stupidity. Any civilization that allows an enemy to enter their capital city is asking for their civilization to be conquered or fall.

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2009 18:28:57 GMT -5 Koda, Master Crunchyroller said:

Jan 5, 2009 18:04:10 GMT -5 @mightykretzler said:

Pardon, but the Aztecs were hardly stupid; the entire story about glorifying Cortes may have been nothing more than fabrication by the Spanish in their accounts. On the other hand, it may not be, but accusing them of stupidity for something that may very well have not happened is a bit unfair to them.

Granted, to their defense they built their capital city in the middle of a snorking lake, and to do that you need to have some smarts, but still, even if the Cortes = a God thing was false, they still allowed Cortes and his allies(enemies of the Aztecs) to just waltz right into Tenochtitlan, and eventually conquer them.

You don't just let your enemies walk right into your capital city and let them be guests there until tensions get too high. I could understand them allowing the Spanish in, as they never seen them before, but they were bitter enemies of the Tlaxcallans, whom the Spanish allied with and brought with them into Tenochtitlan. You just don't do that. That would be like the Greeks just allowing the Persians to walking into their major city-states, or the Romans allowing the Carthaginians or later the Goths/Huns to just walk into Rome without trouble, or even America allowing Nazis or Communists to just enter. It is stupid to allow one of your greatest enemies, an enemy you hate to death and had many fights with, just walk into your capital city. That right there is utter stupidity. Any civilization that allows an enemy to enter their capital city is asking for their civilization to be conquered or fall.

The problem is that they didn't. Moctezuma did and he pissed his people off. As the reports say, he did it out of hospitality, but what's much more difficult to dispute is that the Aztecs really had nothing to worry about from the Conquistadores and the number of allies they had with them. The population of Tenochtitlan was huge and the Aztecs were hosting a relatively small number of visitors that did not originally have their arms drawn against the civilians (or the Aztec nobles) when they came into the city. But after Moctezuma's kidnapping and Cortes' intentions being revealed, the Aztecs very quickly revolted and kicked the Spanish and allied occupants out of their city. Only after smallpox and starvation that severely weakened the Aztecs during the siege of Tenochtitlan and a defeat at Otumba were they really weak enough to be dealt with.

It's not like the Aztecs just rolled over for them out of stupidity, they tried the peaceful route against a smaller force, kicked them out, suffered and were worn down, and were defeated in battle. With as many enemies as they had, their numbers may not have been nearly as overwhelming as they've been made out to be by Spanish sources--especially since almost every tribe in the region had a problem with the Mexica and were more than willing to unite against a common foe.

[The Thread Barbi]

We'll see in three years time. If its true...I'll log on here and LAUGH at the disbelievers and say I TOLD YOU SO. If not, I'll log on and LAUGH at the believers and say I TOLD YOU SO.

Fair, no?

[Koda, Master Crunchyroller]

Jan 5, 2009 18:42:25 GMT -5 @mightykretzler said:

Jan 5, 2009 18:28:57 GMT -5 Koda, Master Crunchyroller said:

Granted, to their defense they built their capital city in the middle of a snorking lake, and to do that you need to have some smarts, but still, even if the Cortes = a God thing was false, they still allowed Cortes and his allies(enemies of the Aztecs) to just waltz right into Tenochtitlan, and eventually conquer them.

You don't just let your enemies walk right into your capital city and let them be guests there until tensions get too high. I could understand them allowing the Spanish in, as they never seen them before, but they were bitter enemies of the Tlaxcallans, whom the Spanish allied with and brought with them into Tenochtitlan. You just don't do that. That would be like the Greeks just allowing the Persians to walking into their major city-states, or the Romans allowing the Carthaginians or later the Goths/Huns to just walk into Rome without trouble, or even America allowing Nazis or Communists to just enter. It is stupid to allow one of your greatest enemies, an enemy you hate to death and had many fights with, just walk into your capital city. That right there is utter stupidity. Any civilization that allows an enemy to enter their capital city is asking for their civilization to be conquered or fall.

The problem is that they didn't. Moctezuma did and he pissed his people off. As the reports say, he did it out of hospitality, but what's much more difficult to dispute is that the Aztecs really had nothing to worry about from the Conquistadores and the number of allies they had with them. The population of Tenochtitlan was huge and the Aztecs were hosting a relatively small number of visitors that did not originally have their arms drawn against the civilians (or the Aztec nobles) when they came into the city. But after Moctezuma's kidnapping and Cortes' intentions being revealed, the Aztecs very quickly revolted and kicked the Spanish and allied occupants out of their city. Only after smallpox and starvation that severely weakened the Aztecs during the siege of Tenochtitlan and a defeat at Otumba were they really weak enough to be dealt with.

It's not like the Aztecs just rolled over for them out of stupidity, they tried the peaceful route against a smaller force, kicked them out, suffered and were worn down, and were defeated in battle. With as many enemies as they had, their numbers may not have been nearly as overwhelming as they've been made out to be by Spanish sources--especially since almost every tribe in the region had a problem with the Mexica and were more than willing to unite against a common foe.

Well yeah. The Aztecs were kind of dicks, what with the taking slaves from nearly every neighboring tribes and using their prisoners of war as their human sacrifices. Cause I'm pretty sure that if you sacrifice a man, his son would want pay back. The thing is, Moctezuma's hospitality was a little too little too late. I mean they made enemies with just about every single neighboring tribe. If Moctezuma wanted to be friendly, he should've started with the other tribes first.

And granted, it was more or less the Aztec leaders that over time led to the downfall of the Mexica empire, but still, even the leaders should know you never let your enemies get close. Hell, anyway you look at it, Moctezuma really screwed his pooch when he allowed Cortes in.

[The Line]

Jan 5, 2009 18:56:52 GMT -5 Koda, Master Crunchyroller said:

Jan 5, 2009 18:42:25 GMT -5 @mightykretzler said:

The problem is that they didn't. Moctezuma did and he pissed his people off. As the reports say, he did it out of hospitality, but what's much more difficult to dispute is that the Aztecs really had nothing to worry about from the Conquistadores and the number of allies they had with them. The population of Tenochtitlan was huge and the Aztecs were hosting a relatively small number of visitors that did not originally have their arms drawn against the civilians (or the Aztec nobles) when they came into the city. But after Moctezuma's kidnapping and Cortes' intentions being revealed, the Aztecs very quickly revolted and kicked the Spanish and allied occupants out of their city. Only after smallpox and starvation that severely weakened the Aztecs during the siege of Tenochtitlan and a defeat at Otumba were they really weak enough to be dealt with.

It's not like the Aztecs just rolled over for them out of stupidity, they tried the peaceful route against a smaller force, kicked them out, suffered and were worn down, and were defeated in battle. With as many enemies as they had, their numbers may not have been nearly as overwhelming as they've been made out to be by Spanish sources--especially since almost every tribe in the region had a problem with the Mexica and were more than willing to unite against a common foe.

Well yeah. The Aztecs were kind of dicks, what with the taking slaves from nearly every neighboring tribes and using their prisoners of war as their human sacrifices. Cause I'm pretty sure that if you sacrifice a man, his son would want pay back. The thing is, Moctezuma's hospitality was a little too little too late. I mean they made enemies with just about every single neighboring tribe. If Moctezuma wanted to be friendly, he should've started with the other tribes first.

And granted, it was more or less the Aztec leaders that over time led to the downfall of the Mexica empire, but still, even the leaders should know you never let your enemies get close. Hell, anyway you look at it, Moctezuma really screwed his pooch when he allowed Cortes in.

That has nothing to do with being a dick, really. Having slaves was typical. The spoils of war. It was normal, and continued to be in practice until modern history.

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2009 18:56:52 GMT -5 Koda, Master Crunchyroller said:

Jan 5, 2009 18:42:25 GMT -5 @mightykretzler said:

The problem is that they didn't. Moctezuma did and he pissed his people off. As the reports say, he did it out of hospitality, but what's much more difficult to dispute is that the Aztecs really had nothing to worry about from the Conquistadores and the number of allies they had with them. The population of Tenochtitlan was huge and the Aztecs were hosting a relatively small number of visitors that did not originally have their arms drawn against the civilians (or the Aztec nobles) when they came into the city. But after Moctezuma's kidnapping and Cortes' intentions being revealed, the Aztecs very quickly revolted and kicked the Spanish and allied occupants out of their city. Only after smallpox and starvation that severely weakened the Aztecs during the siege of Tenochtitlan and a defeat at Otumba were they really weak enough to be dealt with.

It's not like the Aztecs just rolled over for them out of stupidity, they tried the peaceful route against a smaller force, kicked them out, suffered and were worn down, and were defeated in battle. With as many enemies as they had, their numbers may not have been nearly as overwhelming as they've been made out to be by Spanish sources--especially since almost every tribe in the region had a problem with the Mexica and were more than willing to unite against a common foe.

Well yeah. The Aztecs were kind of dicks, what with the taking slaves from nearly every neighboring tribes and using their prisoners of war as their human sacrifices. Cause I'm pretty sure that if you sacrifice a man, his son would want pay back. The thing is, Moctezuma's hospitality was a little too little too late. I mean they made enemies with just about every single neighboring tribe. If Moctezuma wanted to be friendly, he should've started with the other tribes first.

And granted, it was more or less the Aztec leaders that over time led to the downfall of the Mexica empire, but still, even the leaders should know you never let your enemies get close. Hell, anyway you look at it, Moctezuma really screwed his pooch when he allowed Cortes in.

Oh, I agree that Moctezuma was unwise for what he did, but I don't think that the Aztec people were to blame for it. And that's the entire point of the argument. They let in a much smaller number of enemies and they were equipped to deal with them--and they did so successfully. The problem lies in what happened to them afterwards, and that's what isn't thought about. Their nobles (and in some cases, leaders) were afflicted with Smallpox and other diseases and among other things, that tore them to pieces. Nobody saw that coming. Not the Aztecs, not the Spanish, not the other tribes. Nobody. Who knows what would've happened to them afterwards, but comparitively they were no more stupid than anyone else (especially with the arrogance of some of those who conquered them, thinking that they could suppress an entire city by having a skeleton crew of a garrison defending it).

[Hulkshi Tanahashi]

The world isn't going to end in 2012, just like it didn't end in 1999 or 1850 or all those other years they said the world was going to end but got wrong!