Lick Ness Monster
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Lick Ness Monster on Apr 20, 2009 19:11:59 GMT -5
One last thing, RC - in regards to the comment about the choice of victims in slasher films, the actual human world of the slasher film tends to be the teenage world because, well, that's who the movies are primarily marketed toward in the first place. The target audience is thrill-seeking teenagers looking to have a fun time at the multiplex on Friday night, so these characters are actually MEANT, at some level, to relate to the audience.
Rorschach, as for your "Villain Rundown" and the various ways that Hollywood humanizes them, I'd say that the WORST offender is Myers. And believe it or not, I don't even think Zombie's version was the worst; the Thorn storyline of parts 5 and 6 was just monumentally stupid, mainly because in the series' canon it basically said that Myers was NOT the absolute epitome of evil that we thought him to be, but rather a poor kid chosen for this role and now forced to commit all these atrocities against his will because of some weird-ass cult. Just really, really terrible.
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Apr 20, 2009 20:09:54 GMT -5
Rorschach, as for your "Villain Rundown" and the various ways that Hollywood humanizes them, I'd say that the WORST offender is Myers. And believe it or not, I don't even think Zombie's version was the worst; the Thorn storyline of parts 5 and 6 was just monumentally stupid, mainly because in the series' canon it basically said that Myers was NOT the absolute epitome of evil that we thought him to be, but rather a poor kid chosen for this role and now forced to commit all these atrocities against his will because of some weird-ass cult. Just really, really terrible. This needs to be a rule: you do not have to explain the origins of the killer. Because I think it just goes against the mystery of the killer. Now this may be the problem with sequels because some fans want to know more and the writer wants to put his own twist to the story. I still think Halloween IV was a great way to leave the series. The ending was just too cool.
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Post by Rorschach on Apr 20, 2009 20:34:33 GMT -5
I haven't seen the beyond HALLOWEEN 2 in a long, long time....how did IV end again?
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Lick Ness Monster
Dennis Stamp
From the eerie, eerie depths of Lake Okabena
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Post by Lick Ness Monster on Apr 20, 2009 20:50:57 GMT -5
After Michael is killed, Loomis sees Jamie Lloyd (Michael's niece, Danielle Harris) home, then races back inside when he hears screaming, and sees Jamie standing on top of the stairs holding a bloody knife, apparently having just murdered her mother. The implication was that Jamie had sort of "inherited" Michael's evilness and committed a senseless murder as a child just like Michael.
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Post by Rorschach on Apr 20, 2009 21:04:53 GMT -5
Another quick question: Has Undertaker ever revealed the inspiration for his "zombie situp"? I think it HAS to be Myers in the first HALLOWEEN. It HAS to be.
Also, I have to wonder....how long before someone decides to try and remake Fulci or Argento's masterpieces? Someone like an Eli Roth, who thinks he's "cool enough" to pull off redoing SUSPIRIA? Or are those films, as JAWS has proven to be, considered "untouchable" amongst the Hollywood system?
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Post by DSR on Apr 20, 2009 21:46:26 GMT -5
This needs to be a rule: you do not have to explain the origins of the killer. Because I think it just goes against the mystery of the killer. I generally agree with this statement, as a lot of what's intriguing about a movie monster is how little we actually know about them. But, I liked Psycho IV, which delved into the history of Norman Bates before the events of Psycho. But the Psycho series isn't supernaturally based, it's more of a true-crime story, so I could see how that makes sense. Now Halloween on the other end, explains everything you need to know in basically just a sentence from Dr. Loomis: <I'm paraphrasing> "I looked into that boys eyes, and all I saw was evil." I can understand a serial killer being a lonely repressed guy. I can understand a monster being evil with no explanation. But to try to pass one off as the other just seems counter to the initial point the film series was trying to make. It's like trying to tell me the predator from "Predator" was a nerd predator picked on by jock predators on his home planet! I hope some of that made sense. And if it doesn't, well...f***. ANYWAY, last night I watched BRIDE OF RE-ANIMATOR, and thought I'd throw down my thoughts on the movie (and, since we're sort of on the topic, some thoughts on "sympathy for the devil" as well). So here goes: It's been a few years since the events of RE-ANIMATOR (I may spoil a few of those events for you during this review...heads up), and Doctors Dan Cain and Herbert West have decided to return to Miskatonic after spending many of those years I mentioned earlier off in Peru, volunteering their doctoral skills during a civil war in the area (I'll come back to this). West is still looking to perfect his "re-agent," the formula he's been using to re-animate the bodies of the dead. He's even got the idea that perhaps he can use those dead bodily organs to create new life. Meanwhile, Cain is looking to do something actual non-crazy doctors do, i.e. help sick people...that is, when his mind doesn't go back to a time when his beloved Meg was still among the living. Another doctor at this hospital (whose name I can't remember) has discovered the re-agent, and used it to bring life back to the head of Dr. Hill, the villain of the first RE-ANIMATOR. AND there's a police lieutenant searching for missing pieces of the puzzle that was the massacre (the events of the first movie), and just how his wife somehow died and came back, ostensibly braindead. All of this stuff will come crashing together when Herbert West's plan to create new life includes the heart of Dan Cain's old girlfriend, Meg. Can these guys create new life from old tissue? Will Dr. Hill get his revenge on West? Will that lieutenant get the answers he seeks? You know the old saying "The more things change, the more they stay the same"? I think that applies to this movie. A few years have passed, our main characters are now full-fledged doctors (not sure how that happened, given all the strange things that happened in the first movie), and Cain's got himself a new girlfriend. Beyond these few changes though, Bride of Re-Animator doesn't feel all that removed from the first Re-Animator. On one hand, Re-Animator was a great movie, and I could certainly see why they would go the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. On the other hand, Bride of Re-Animator winds up feeling sort of redundant, only taking on a "new life" of its own in the finale, where Dr. West's experiments in creating new life come back to gain a measure of revenge against him (his creations wind up being cobbled together from various body parts). I can't help but feel as though that brief prologue in Peru could've been fleshed out into a movie in its own right. At least then they're in a new place and a new environment, so things don't feel too repetitive. The performances are pretty good all-around, with Jeffrey Combs stealing the show as Herbert West. The special effects are top-notch, as director Brian Yuzna employed quite a few effects teams for this picture (the famed KNB EFX among them), and I generally liked the mix-and-match monsters. I'll get to my actual grade for the movie in a minute or 9, but first... I watched this movie last night and have had a day to think about it, and I think there might be something a little wrong with me (well, maybe not wrong, per se...). I know full well that Dan Cain is supposed to be the main character. He's basically an everyman, works hard at his job and generally wants to help people. But, for the life of me, I just can't relate to the guy. Herbert West, on the other hand, is unhinged and, come to think of it, kind of stupid: he's looking to take the re-agent into new territory, when even in the territory it's supposed to be useful in, it hasn't provided any results that are positive. But I see more of myself in Herbert West than in Dan Cain. Aside from what I've mentioned about Cain above, the only thing we really know about him is that he's fairly handsome and he usually has a girlfriend in these movies. Dan's personality is left mostly blank throughout, only really showing itself in his reactions to the people around him. It's as though Dr. West is the devil on his one shoulder, and his girlfriend provides the angel on the other shoulder. Dan's the good guy in this situation, coaxed into doing bad things by his colleague. Then there's Dr. West, who's reclusive, and unhinged as I said above...but however wrong he is about what he's doing, he's passionate about it. In his eyes, these once-living limbs are clay, and he's a sculptor looking to make a new masterpiece from them. While I'm not sure his heart is in the right place, I at least know that it's going some place. He's self-sufficient, rather than being lead into actions by others, he chooses them of his own will. I guess I can kinda see Dr. West in comparison to other doctors the way I see horror movie directors in comparison to other directors. See most doctors and most directors want the results of their efforts to be beautiful. They want to create a story that sends people home happy, using gorgeous imagery to do so. Dr. West, like a horror movie director, I think wants to create a beautiful story too, but he finds beauty in the grotesque side of life. It's basically the idea of finding that part of ourselves that people don't want to admit is there, and exploring that part and finding reasons why we should embrace it, and trying to learn from that ugliness to create that beautiful something we're striving for. I came in here set to give the movie 3 stars out of 5, but looking over what I've just written here, I think a film that makes me examine things like this deserves a bit more credit than that. 3.7 stars out of 5.
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Lick Ness Monster
Dennis Stamp
From the eerie, eerie depths of Lake Okabena
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Post by Lick Ness Monster on Apr 20, 2009 21:55:55 GMT -5
Oh God...it's been YEARS since I've seen Bride of Re-Animator...probably ten at least. Your review jogged a ton of memories, though. It's damn near as oddball and fun as the first. Also, I have to wonder....how long before someone decides to try and remake Fulci or Argento's masterpieces? Someone like an Eli Roth, who thinks he's "cool enough" to pull off redoing SUSPIRIA? Or are those films, as JAWS has proven to be, considered "untouchable" amongst the Hollywood system? www.imdb.com/title/tt1034415/It's been talked about off-and-on for the last couple years...but so far we've escaped it. SO FAR.
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Post by DSR on Apr 20, 2009 22:02:43 GMT -5
Oh God...it's been YEARS since I've seen Bride of Re-Animator...probably ten at least. Your review jogged a ton of memories, though. It's damn near as oddball and fun as the first. Also, I have to wonder....how long before someone decides to try and remake Fulci or Argento's masterpieces? Someone like an Eli Roth, who thinks he's "cool enough" to pull off redoing SUSPIRIA? Or are those films, as JAWS has proven to be, considered "untouchable" amongst the Hollywood system? www.imdb.com/title/tt1034415/It's been talked about off-and-on for the last couple years...but so far we've escaped it. SO FAR. My favorite was the rumor that some Japanese anime company was gonna remake Suspiria. I honestly loved that idea, because as a few of you guys have said before, the Japanese seem to have taken up the reigns of horror since the Italians haven't really had that creative jolt like they did in the 80s. Plus, if it was a group like the people behind Wicked City, I could totally see them pulling off an awesomely surreal nightmare-put-to-film vibe. And with those kinds of movies, I could see the Japanese getting the point that it's not entirely supposed to "make sense." Whereas some Hollywood-types will be like "yeah, but why is this witch in a german dance academy?" and just explain everything away to the point where its not fun anymore.
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Lick Ness Monster
Dennis Stamp
From the eerie, eerie depths of Lake Okabena
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Post by Lick Ness Monster on Apr 20, 2009 22:15:59 GMT -5
And with those kinds of movies, I could see the Japanese getting the point that it's not entirely supposed to "make sense." Whereas some Hollywood-types will be like "yeah, but why is this witch in a german dance academy?" and just explain everything away to the point where its not fun anymore. Agreed times a thousand. If Suspiria were remade by, say, Platinum Dunes, we'd get a whole bunch of insipid, uninspired scenes involving the Suzy Banyon character digging around in the Academy archives and piecing together all of the Scooby Doo-like clues, thus spelling out the complete history of the Witch, the coven, and the school itself. And while the musical score was really the creepiest thing in the original film (and almost a character in and of itself), I can easily see sound scare stingers replacing it. In other words, lame. A Suspiria remake sounds like something that just cannot POSSIBLY work, although I could roll with the Anime idea.
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Post by DSR on Apr 20, 2009 22:23:40 GMT -5
And with those kinds of movies, I could see the Japanese getting the point that it's not entirely supposed to "make sense." Whereas some Hollywood-types will be like "yeah, but why is this witch in a german dance academy?" and just explain everything away to the point where its not fun anymore. Agreed times a thousand. If Suspiria were remade by, say, Platinum Dunes, we'd get a whole bunch of insipid, uninspired scenes involving the Suzy Banyon character digging around in the Academy archives and piecing together all of the Scooby Doo-like clues, thus spelling out the complete history of the Witch, the coven, and the school itself. And while the musical score was really the creepiest thing in the original film (and almost a character in and of itself), I can easily see sound scare stingers replacing it. In other words, lame. A Suspiria remake sounds like something that just cannot POSSIBLY work, although I could roll with the Anime idea. Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather not have any remake of Suspiria (I'd even be happy if someone took the basic stylistic cues from that movie and created their own story for them), but I honestly see anime as the best case scenario for such a project. There's obviously some creative minds over in Japan that have a firm grasp on the "I have no idea what's going on, but I'm scared s***-less, anyway" sort of vibe. We have a few of those kinds of people here, too, but most of them are way in the underground (certainly not a Platinum Dunes or Lionsgate kind of thing), and thus couldn't conceivably receive the necessary support to really make that sort of thing work.
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Post by Rorschach on Apr 21, 2009 1:20:22 GMT -5
It's listed as a Dario Argento/David Gordon Green production....where do I know that name from....David Gordon Green? *Hrrm* *Dons trenchcoat, and fedora* Got investigating to do. BRB. EDIT: Didn't take long. Few fingers broken and information is mine. He was the "brains" behind PINEAPPLE EXPRESS. *Schnort* The PINEAPPLE EXPRESS dude is being entrusted with SUSPIRIA?
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Apr 21, 2009 1:57:06 GMT -5
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Apr 21, 2009 5:55:57 GMT -5
It's listed as a Dario Argento/David Gordon Green production....where do I know that name from....David Gordon Green? *Hrrm* *Dons trenchcoat, and fedora* Got investigating to do. BRB. EDIT: Didn't take long. Few fingers broken and information is mine. He was the "brains" behind PINEAPPLE EXPRESS. *Schnort* The PINEAPPLE EXPRESS dude is being entrusted with SUSPIRIA? You know the more I hear about remakes the more apathetic I become. I used to get really hot and bothered by them, but I feel nowadays my energies are better put elsewhere. Like trying to say as far away from the remakes as possible. That being said I think a remake of Suspiria is just a terrible idea. DSR made a good point about how they're going to try and explain things. Also I don't think there are any good directors right now with Dimension who can capture the feel of the original. Yet like any film I will wait for the general reviews to come out before I make a decision. On a another topic how was Trick R Treat? I rarely see new horror films anymore and am curious becase I have heard good buzz around it. Andrew, I enjoyed April Fool's Day. It had a much different ending then that of typical slasher fare during that era. It's in the similar vein of Friday the 13th and My Bloody Valentine so if you enjoy those films you'll enjoy it. P.S. did you all know that their is rumored to be an alternative ending to April Fools Day? Retro Slashers has a summary of it up. Oops...I keep forgetting to put stuff in my post when I write them. I picked up Eros in Hell: Sex, Blood and Madness in Japanese Cinema. www.amazon.com/Eros-Hell-Japanese-Creation-Collection/dp/1871592933/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240311687&sr=8-1I'm looking forward to expanding my viewing of Asian horror cinema.
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Post by Sir Woodrow on Apr 21, 2009 6:11:08 GMT -5
Also, I have to wonder....how long before someone decides to try and remake Fulci or Argento's masterpieces? Someone like an Eli Roth, who thinks he's "cool enough" to pull off redoing SUSPIRIA? Or are those films, as JAWS has proven to be, considered "untouchable" amongst the Hollywood system? Rob Zombie's The Beyond would kick all kinds of ass... I'll leave before I'm straight up murdered.
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Apr 21, 2009 7:00:28 GMT -5
Also, I have to wonder....how long before someone decides to try and remake Fulci or Argento's masterpieces? Someone like an Eli Roth, who thinks he's "cool enough" to pull off redoing SUSPIRIA? Or are those films, as JAWS has proven to be, considered "untouchable" amongst the Hollywood system? Rob Zombie's The Beyond would kick all kinds of ass... I'll leave before I'm straight up murdered. Don't make me send the flesh eating spiders on you. Speaking of Fulci, since I have a region free dvd player I picked up The New York Ripper Special restored edition which was being sold in scandavian countries. www.dvdcompare.net/review.php?rid=132 The american dvd release has a scene out of place and this edition restores it plus some cool extra features. Still it's 30 dollars to import...thank you bad economy.
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Lick Ness Monster
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Lick Ness Monster on Apr 21, 2009 9:24:09 GMT -5
There actually are some remakes that Rob Zombie would really be dynamite with - Texas Chain Saw Massacre being first and foremost, but I think he'd also do a really good job with Eaten Alive and The Funhouse. Basically, the "dirty" Tobe Hooper flicks would suit him really well.
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Apr 21, 2009 10:04:26 GMT -5
There actually are some remakes that Rob Zombie would really be dynamite with - Texas Chain Saw Massacre being first and foremost, but I think he'd also do a really good job with Eaten Alive and The Funhouse. Basically, the "dirty" Tobe Hooper flicks would suit him really well. Yeah, those would have worked. However, Robert Englund must reprise his role as Buck in a Eaten Alive remake. Maybe a slighty older Buck, maybe a buck and three quarters, but a Buck none the less.
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Tehboobz wants Ewa Sonnett
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Post by Tehboobz wants Ewa Sonnett on Apr 21, 2009 14:02:05 GMT -5
There actually are some remakes that Rob Zombie would really be dynamite with - Texas Chain Saw Massacre being first and foremost, but I think he'd also do a really good job with Eaten Alive and The Funhouse. Basically, the "dirty" Tobe Hooper flicks would suit him really well. Yeah, those would have worked. However, Robert Englund must reprise his role as Buck in a Eaten Alive remake. Maybe a slighty older Buck, maybe a buck and three quarters, but a Buck none the less. "My name is Buck, and I'm RARIN' to...." (Looks down waistband) "Errrm....hang on a sec, sweet thing..." (Pops three Viagra, waits five minutes) "NOW I'm RARIN' to f***! Let's get to it, Darlin!" ;D Also, I found this and HAD to post it....just pretend the guy Freddy is stomping is Michael Bay.
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Post by DSR on Apr 21, 2009 15:32:19 GMT -5
There actually are some remakes that Rob Zombie would really be dynamite with - Texas Chain Saw Massacre being first and foremost, but I think he'd also do a really good job with Eaten Alive and The Funhouse. Basically, the "dirty" Tobe Hooper flicks would suit him really well. I've said it before, but aside from a lack of chainsaws, House of 1000 Corpses basically already IS a remake of Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I can't help but feel that, had they given Rob the reigns of the TCM remake after making 1000 Corpses, the results would've been quite redundant.
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Ken Ivory
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Post by Ken Ivory on Apr 22, 2009 3:37:02 GMT -5
Time for a review methinks.... Black Christmas (1974) I knew nothing of this film until I saw it yesterday and of course I thought another holiday themed horror trying to cash in on Halloween!! Imagine my shock when I found out this was made in 1974! Anyhoo, for those who haven't seen it the premise is pretty simple- deranged murderer kills girls at a sorority house. While I don't think this is as good as Halloween, I did find it a bit creepy in places, especially in the Killers ("Billy") phone calls to his victims in which he can seemingly change his voice with ease (sort of reminiscent of Norman Bates in Psycho). I also like the fact that little to nothing is revealed about the killer, we don't even get to see what he looks like, let alone get any kind of backstory. We are only given enough for our imaginations to work with - which by the by I think is one of the best approaches to horror characters, take that as my two cents on the Villain backstory debate. All in all, this film surprised me and I would certainly recommend it. Appaerntly it was remade in 2006 so I'll probably watch it to see how they treat "Billy" in this one.
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