Grendel
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
But ... why is all the rum gone?
Posts: 17,593
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Post by Grendel on Oct 3, 2009 19:14:30 GMT -5
When someone says "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" I usually respond ,assuming you mean what came first the chicken or the chicken egg, that the chicken must have come first because chicken as we now know it must have first been born of some slightly different bird before it evolved into what it is now and started having progeny in its own likeness. That of course relies on a chicken egg only qualifying as an egg laid by a chicken and not just any egg that may CONTAIN a chicken. I say this because it sounds right enough that it wont be questioned too much and usually ends the conversation. This doesn't make it any more correct or incorrect, its just sounds like it could be right. You are right, but there are some works of fiction I've read where Vampires started because someone became possessed by a demon that was hungry for blood. And if John Carpenter's Vampires (I don't care for the film) is to be believed, Vampires came about because of a botched exorcism. If we go this route, vampires didn't come about as a natural part of evolution, they came about because of mystic forces. Said mystic forces would probably have consumed energy from the host bodies and be undead ... But I digress, evolution could play a factor as well ... **slams head against the wall in frustration.**
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Brother Coyote
Samurai Cop
Has Clarity of Vision Is an engine of will
Posts: 2,124
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Post by Brother Coyote on Oct 3, 2009 19:16:15 GMT -5
When someone says "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" I usually respond ,assuming you mean what came first the chicken or the chicken egg, that the chicken must have come first because chicken as we now know it must have first been born of some slightly different bird before it evolved into what it is now and started having progeny in its own likeness. That of course relies on a chicken egg only qualifying as an egg laid by a chicken and not just any egg that may CONTAIN a chicken. I say this because it sounds right enough that it wont be questioned too much and usually ends the conversation. This doesn't make it any more correct or incorrect, its just sounds like it could be right. What does that have to do with if vampires have the ability to impregnate or be impregnated? Same kind of situation I guess, I mean a lot of arguments can be made either way and all those arguments may rely on several different variations of the vampire mythos as its an INCREDIBLY popular and common type of myth. There are easily 50 different types of ways to kill a vampire depending on the region of the world you're in, all in the same vein, but with variations that depend on local flavor. Some places say you need a stake made of a certain type of wood, some say a vampire must be nailed to the earth by the stake and the heart is irrelevant some don't even have stakes and OBVIOUSLY some places make no mention of a cross. With so many variations in even the oldest versions of the vampire myth and the added glittery revisions in recent movies you can't really come to a consensus on the subject. edit: plus I thought it was a clever answer
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theryno665
Grimlock
wants a title underneath the stars
Kinda Homeless
Posts: 13,571
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Post by theryno665 on Oct 3, 2009 19:18:37 GMT -5
There was a zombie baby in Dead Alive so I'll believe in anything at this point.
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Oct 3, 2009 19:20:24 GMT -5
What does that have to do with if vampires have the ability to impregnate or be impregnated? Same kind of situation I guess, I mean a lot of arguments can be made either way and all those arguments may rely on several different variations of the vampire mythos as its an INCREDIBLY popular and common type of myth. There are easily 50 different types of ways to kill a vampire depending on the region of the world you're in, all in the same vein, but with variations that depend on local flavor. Some places say you need a stake made of a certain type of wood, some say a vampire must be nailed to the earth by the stake and the heart is irrelevant some don't even have stakes and OBVIOUSLY some places make no mention of a cross. With so many variations in even the oldest versions of the vampire myth and the added glittery revisions in recent movies you can't really come to a consensus on the subject. edit: plus I thought it was a clever answer Eh, I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but chicken/egg answer really doesn't apply to the question at hand. The chicken/egg thing is more of a which one is first, where did they come from kind of deal. This question is dealing with if vampires can even have children in the first place. We know where they come from and which came first. A closer analogy would be "Can a chicken lay an egg?" to which we all know is yes. But Chicken's aren't undead.
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Brother Coyote
Samurai Cop
Has Clarity of Vision Is an engine of will
Posts: 2,124
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Post by Brother Coyote on Oct 3, 2009 19:26:25 GMT -5
Same kind of situation I guess, I mean a lot of arguments can be made either way and all those arguments may rely on several different variations of the vampire mythos as its an INCREDIBLY popular and common type of myth. There are easily 50 different types of ways to kill a vampire depending on the region of the world you're in, all in the same vein, but with variations that depend on local flavor. Some places say you need a stake made of a certain type of wood, some say a vampire must be nailed to the earth by the stake and the heart is irrelevant some don't even have stakes and OBVIOUSLY some places make no mention of a cross. With so many variations in even the oldest versions of the vampire myth and the added glittery revisions in recent movies you can't really come to a consensus on the subject. edit: plus I thought it was a clever answer Eh, I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but chicken/egg answer really doesn't apply to the question at hand. The chicken/egg thing is more of a which one is first, where did they come from kind of deal. This question is dealing with if vampires can even have children in the first place. We know where they come from and which came first. A closer analogy would be "Can a chicken lay an egg?" to which we all know is yes. But Chicken's aren't undead. Its not the question so much as the type of question, the chicken and the egg question is asked by people who really don't expect a straight answer its. Its a question asked for argument's sake which isn't necessarily a bad thing but almost always leads the same place. Maybe I could have explained it better originally but hey, Grendel got what I mean and he's a Norse monstrosity, one would hope a wisecracking yarn chasing merc with a tail would be able to follow.
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Oct 3, 2009 19:41:29 GMT -5
I just still don't get how that helps Void's question at all. I think, we're just going on after two things here. I for one am actually trying to directly answer the question and figure it out. You seem to be commenting on the type of question it is. Once again, I mean no insult by any of this.
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Jay Peas 42
El Dandy
Totally flips out ALL the time.
Is looking forward to a Nation of Domination Kwannza Special.
Posts: 8,329
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Post by Jay Peas 42 on Oct 3, 2009 19:50:52 GMT -5
1. Undead: If the Vampire in question is undead, then no. In this context, a vampire is corpse that has been posessed by a spirit using necromancy after death, and must steal life because it has none of it's own. They have no other signs of life, therefore reproduction is out of the question. Van Helsing and Angel pretty much covered this.
2. Living: If the Vampire is still alive, which means it eats blood to sustain it's metabolism, then sure. Blade pretty much covered this. Likewise, if the Vampire is mystical and still alive, such as Lilith, then yes. And if it's stealing blood to prolong it's own life, then yes. Again, if it has life independent of other creatures, then good. Unless sterile, of course.
3. Former Vampires If the creature should regain it's humanity, with the condition that it's children will become vampires upon death, and if the creature does not need to drink blood and can be killed in a manner consistent with a human, then yes. This happens a lot, as once vampires were the seventh sons of seventh suns, doomed to stalk the earth for seven years at which point they may move and return to earth.
Darla and Angel don't count. It was made very clear, that Jasmine was behind that.
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Brother Coyote
Samurai Cop
Has Clarity of Vision Is an engine of will
Posts: 2,124
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Post by Brother Coyote on Oct 3, 2009 19:51:54 GMT -5
I just still don't get how that helps Void's question at all. I think, we're just going on after two things here. I for one am actually trying to directly answer the question and figure it out. You seem to be commenting on the type of question it is. Once again, I mean no insult by any of this. I'm basically saying that either the question has no answer or so many different and valid answers that they are all meaningless to anyone looking for one. The answer to Void's question will only ever be as valid to him as the person answering it, if that makes any sense.
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Oct 3, 2009 20:00:33 GMT -5
I just still don't get how that helps Void's question at all. I think, we're just going on after two things here. I for one am actually trying to directly answer the question and figure it out. You seem to be commenting on the type of question it is. Once again, I mean no insult by any of this. I'm basically saying that either the question has no answer or so many different and valid answers that they are all meaningless to anyone looking for one. The answer to Void's question will only ever be as valid to him as the person answering it, if that makes any sense. I get you now.
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Ducky Momo
Samurai Cop
Sheer Momacity!
Posts: 2,313
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Post by Ducky Momo on Oct 3, 2009 20:01:20 GMT -5
I'm going to go with no. Off of memory Blades mother was pregnant as a human then got turned right? Even then he was very close to birth when it happened. Darla and Angel only had a baby because of magic stuffs. Although wasn't Darla still human when Angel slept with her? If so then it would hold up with not being able to have kids as a vampire. Especially since her being a vampire was slowly killing the child, she staked herself so it could survive. Again Angel wasn't viable (eunuch ) since it had to take magic for him to impregnate her.
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Oct 3, 2009 20:04:56 GMT -5
I'm just gonna say they're fictional characters and if a dead corpse can live in general I'm not going to put it past them to have babies. lol
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Post by Cela on Oct 3, 2009 20:05:15 GMT -5
Ok, according to a movie series based around Immortals, if they can decapitate all other immortals, then they get to have kids.
I think thats the answer we're looking for.
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Post by Alucard on Oct 3, 2009 20:14:03 GMT -5
In a roundabout way my question was answered, I was familiar with the concept of dhampyrs but had forgotten the term for them, since more than one person mentioned them I now can assume these are commonly accepted mythological beings. But please keep it alive (or dead) if ya want, I'm liking these magic theories.
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Oct 3, 2009 20:16:58 GMT -5
Void I'm always willing to talk about this shit with you, you damned, dirty bloodsucker.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Oct 3, 2009 20:18:19 GMT -5
Can vampires live under water?
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Ducky Momo
Samurai Cop
Sheer Momacity!
Posts: 2,313
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Post by Ducky Momo on Oct 3, 2009 20:18:56 GMT -5
Can vampires live under water? Yes, they don't breathe.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Oct 3, 2009 20:20:02 GMT -5
Can vampires live under water? Yes, they don't breathe. Well, that's all I got.
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erisi236
Fry's dog Seymour
... enjoys the rich, smooth taste of Camels.
Not good! Not good! Not good!
Posts: 21,904
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Post by erisi236 on Oct 3, 2009 20:23:39 GMT -5
I like to think that Vampires aren't really dead, they're Humans who died and then became Vampires which is a new life as something else, if you get my meaning.
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Oct 3, 2009 20:23:55 GMT -5
Can vampires live under water? Yes, they don't breathe. Weeeell, in some mythos vampires are hurt by running water, any water, holy water and none of the above. So it depends.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Oct 3, 2009 20:27:13 GMT -5
Weeeell, in some mythos vampires are hurt by running water, any water, holy water and none of the above. So it depends. Yeah and what if a vampire is living underwater and all they have to is get a priest to bless the water it's living in and then it all becomes holy water and then the vamp is screwed? There's more to this sorted little affair than meets the eye.
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