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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 21, 2009 9:23:47 GMT -5
f*** all the hate i will stand up and say I LIKE ALLSTAR BATMAN AND ROBIN. *puts up flame shield* Well, I'll say this: I did enjoy the copious amounts of Vickie Vale ass on display. thirded. had absolutely NO problem with that, then I read how Frank Miller plotted that scene in the script and felt like I needed a shower.
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Dec 21, 2009 11:58:42 GMT -5
The thing is, you're only as good as your last project. And Miller's last several projects most definitely sucked.
The Spirit was a box office bomb of epic proportions. I'm not trying to be a cool-sounding fanboy there, either--this movie tanked...and it's because it was just a bad movie. And before that, there was All-Star Batman & Robin...which really was just a terrible series.
However, Frank's definitely given us some great stories. The whole reason Marvel's Daredevil even matters today is probably due to his run as the series' writer. And the Batman we all know and love today has his roots planted firmly in Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" and "Batman: Year One." (Hell, Batman Begins was pretty much based on that book.) And then, of course, there's his own projects, like "Sin City" and "300." I'm, personally, a big fan of "Ronin," as well.
Unfortunately, the entertainment industry is a really "here & now" business. After all, if your stuff doesn't sell, you're of no value. And news reports stick with current accomplishments, not decades old ones--and that's generally reflected in message boards, forums, etc.
Frank's had a good run. And he may well have some good stories left in him. But for right now, I think he just needs to step back a moment and perhaps take a hiatus. I suspect he got a slightly inflated opinion of himself when the movie adaptations of Sin City and 300 did so well; perhaps The Spirit and All-Star were a wake up call.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 21, 2009 22:23:58 GMT -5
/\ true that. yiu SHOULD give even the devil his due, and Miller's run(s) on Daredevil is still one of my favorites. just such a great cast of characters. and he gave us Turk the ultimate universal buttmonkey!
it's kinda unfair too. Frank gets shit on (somewhat fairly) for his recent stuff but people act as if Alan Moore's infallible when he hasn't written a good title in almost 20 years, Top Ten and Tom Strong aside.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 21, 2009 22:42:20 GMT -5
Aside from the fact that they both get movies made out of their books more than others, I don't see why Miller gets compared to Moore at all. They have entirely different styles. \
Also, the first League of Extraordinary Gentlemen rocked.
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Post by toddpolt on Dec 22, 2009 0:48:07 GMT -5
The Spirit or All Star Batman & Robin?
I mean which one can we mark as the bottom of the well for Senor Miller?
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JDviant
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Post by JDviant on Dec 22, 2009 2:38:30 GMT -5
Promethea also gets a lot of love from a sect of fans, and is easily considered better then anything Frank's done in the same timeline.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Dec 22, 2009 2:55:47 GMT -5
The thing is, you're only as good as your last project. And Miller's last several projects most definitely sucked. The Spirit was a box office bomb of epic proportions. I'm not trying to be a cool-sounding fanboy there, either--this movie tanked...and it's because it was just a bad movie. And before that, there was All-Star Batman & Robin...which really was just a terrible series. However, Frank's definitely given us some great stories. The whole reason Marvel's Daredevil even matters today is probably due to his run as the series' writer. And the Batman we all know and love today has his roots planted firmly in Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" and "Batman: Year One." (Hell, Batman Begins was pretty much based on that book.) And then, of course, there's his own projects, like "Sin City" and "300." I'm, personally, a big fan of "Ronin," as well. Unfortunately, the entertainment industry is a really "here & now" business. After all, if your stuff doesn't sell, you're of no value. And news reports stick with current accomplishments, not decades old ones--and that's generally reflected in message boards, forums, etc. Frank's had a good run. And he may well have some good stories left in him. But for right now, I think he just needs to step back a moment and perhaps take a hiatus. I suspect he got a slightly inflated opinion of himself when the movie adaptations of Sin City and 300 did so well; perhaps The Spirit and All-Star were a wake up call. That all makes sense, until you remember that people were gushing over Avatar before it came out because it was James Cameron's first movie in TWELVE YEARS. So that kind of blows the whole "here and now" thing to bits. Here and now only applies to newbies/people who have been in the entertainment biz for 10 or less years, and have relatively small portfolios. If you've been in the entertainment business since the 70s, 80s, or hell, even the 90s, you'll have a big enough portfolio(hopefully) to have enough successful projects to have some draw/credit left. Frank Miller is still relevant because of his work on Daredevil, because of his 80s work with Batman, because of Sin City, etc. Basically, his big hits still keep him relevant. Hell, George Lucas hasn't made any films beyond a few of the Star Wars films(remember, he didn't make all of them), the Indiana Jones films, and American Graffiti. Yeah, the prequels stuff has sucked major balls, but some how, some way, the early Star Wars and Indy films keeps him credible.
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AFN: Judge Shred
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Dec 22, 2009 3:59:10 GMT -5
Shortpacked kinda summed it up... The way he depicts women is freaking scary, it works in Sin City, but he whored up established characters.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 22, 2009 10:44:06 GMT -5
Promethea also gets a lot of love from a sect of fans, and is easily considered better then anything Frank's done in the same timeline. I did not like Promethea. it felt more like Moore was trying to get his personal philosophy out there than trying to tell a good story.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 22, 2009 10:45:27 GMT -5
Shortpacked kinda summed it up... The way he depicts women is freaking scary, it works in Sin City, but he whored up established characters. "outta the way, sperm bank" *cure epic facepalms*
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Post by Baixo Astral on Dec 22, 2009 10:55:04 GMT -5
Don't know how popular this opinion is, but I've just been rereading Miller's initial DD run - I think it's probably the best solo character comic book of all time - everything since then has been a slow slide downhill. Everything.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 22, 2009 11:36:27 GMT -5
His DD run is indeed amazing.
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Dec 22, 2009 11:41:38 GMT -5
The thing is, you're only as good as your last project. And Miller's last several projects most definitely sucked. The Spirit was a box office bomb of epic proportions. I'm not trying to be a cool-sounding fanboy there, either--this movie tanked...and it's because it was just a bad movie. And before that, there was All-Star Batman & Robin...which really was just a terrible series. However, Frank's definitely given us some great stories. The whole reason Marvel's Daredevil even matters today is probably due to his run as the series' writer. And the Batman we all know and love today has his roots planted firmly in Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" and "Batman: Year One." (Hell, Batman Begins was pretty much based on that book.) And then, of course, there's his own projects, like "Sin City" and "300." I'm, personally, a big fan of "Ronin," as well. Unfortunately, the entertainment industry is a really "here & now" business. After all, if your stuff doesn't sell, you're of no value. And news reports stick with current accomplishments, not decades old ones--and that's generally reflected in message boards, forums, etc. Frank's had a good run. And he may well have some good stories left in him. But for right now, I think he just needs to step back a moment and perhaps take a hiatus. I suspect he got a slightly inflated opinion of himself when the movie adaptations of Sin City and 300 did so well; perhaps The Spirit and All-Star were a wake up call. That all makes sense, until you remember that people were gushing over Avatar before it came out because it was James Cameron's first movie in TWELVE YEARS. So that kind of blows the whole "here and now" thing to bits. Here and now only applies to newbies/people who have been in the entertainment biz for 10 or less years, and have relatively small portfolios. Gotta disagree. Cameron did just what I was talking about. He made the biggest movie of his career, Titanic, then took a bit of a hiatus from filmmaking (his deep sea documentaries notwithstanding). Now, all these years later, he resurfaces, and because he didn't burn himself out kinda like Frank did, people are psyched to have him back. If ol' Frank "retires" from writing/filmmaking for a few years (actually, he should do that from filmmaking forever), then resurfaces again with a new book, I guarantee people will wet their pants with excitement.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 22, 2009 11:45:25 GMT -5
Agreed. Most of us aren't saying- 'wow Frank's really keeping himself out there and relevant.', more ' What the f*** happened Frank?'
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Dec 22, 2009 15:11:07 GMT -5
That all makes sense, until you remember that people were gushing over Avatar before it came out because it was James Cameron's first movie in TWELVE YEARS. So that kind of blows the whole "here and now" thing to bits. Here and now only applies to newbies/people who have been in the entertainment biz for 10 or less years, and have relatively small portfolios. Gotta disagree. Cameron did just what I was talking about. He made the biggest movie of his career, Titanic, then took a bit of a hiatus from filmmaking (his deep sea documentaries notwithstanding). Now, all these years later, he resurfaces, and because he didn't burn himself out kinda like Frank did, people are psyched to have him back. If ol' Frank "retires" from writing/filmmaking for a few years (actually, he should do that from filmmaking forever), then resurfaces again with a new book, I guarantee people will wet their pants with excitement. Dude, now you are just contradicting yourself. You said, and I quote, "And news reports stick with current accomplishments, not decades old ones" How the hell does Cameron fit into that? Since he hasn't made any movies in 12 years, he had no current accomplishments. He only had decades old ones, which you said news reports don't stick to. Please explain this.
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Dec 22, 2009 15:40:15 GMT -5
Gotta disagree. Cameron did just what I was talking about. He made the biggest movie of his career, Titanic, then took a bit of a hiatus from filmmaking (his deep sea documentaries notwithstanding). Now, all these years later, he resurfaces, and because he didn't burn himself out kinda like Frank did, people are psyched to have him back. If ol' Frank "retires" from writing/filmmaking for a few years (actually, he should do that from filmmaking forever), then resurfaces again with a new book, I guarantee people will wet their pants with excitement. Dude, now you are just contradicting yourself. You said, and I quote, "And news reports stick with current accomplishments, not decades old ones" How the hell does Cameron fit into that? Since he hasn't made any movies in 12 years, he had no current accomplishments. He only had decades old ones, which you said news reports don't stick to. Please explain this. Not sure how this became a debate... But I'll explain what I meant and leave it at that. I said...and I quote..."But for right now, I think he (Frank) just needs to step back a moment and perhaps take a hiatus." Which is what Cameron did. Which is what I'm suggesting Frank do. I'm not going to argue whether or not Frank's relevant, since I never took a stand on that one way or the other. I only tried to explain why, perhaps, he's treated so harshly by news sites and fans as opposed to someone like James Cameron.
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Goldenbane
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Post by Goldenbane on Dec 22, 2009 15:51:51 GMT -5
As someone who's never like Miller...and that includes his run on Daredevil and Batman: Dark Knight Returns, I can't say any crap he does today makes me gasp in horror that he's not very good.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Dec 22, 2009 16:00:26 GMT -5
Dude, now you are just contradicting yourself. You said, and I quote, "And news reports stick with current accomplishments, not decades old ones" How the hell does Cameron fit into that? Since he hasn't made any movies in 12 years, he had no current accomplishments. He only had decades old ones, which you said news reports don't stick to. Please explain this. Not sure how this became a debate... But I'll explain what I meant and leave it at that. I said...and I quote..."But for right now, I think he (Frank) just needs to step back a moment and perhaps take a hiatus." Which is what Cameron did. Which is what I'm suggesting Frank do. I'm not going to argue whether or not Frank's relevant, since I never took a stand on that one way or the other. I only tried to explain why, perhaps, he's treated so harshly by news sites and fans as opposed to someone like James Cameron. Dude, you totally are contradicting yourself. You say that the media/news only focuses on current accomplishments and not old ones, yet at the same time say that people like Miller, who have grown a little long in the tooth, need to take a hiatus? The f***?! If they take a hiatus, then they won't have any current accomplishments, only old ones. I mean your argument makes sense, except for that one little part. And I am still greatly confused. You can't take a hiatus and have current accomplishments. By the time you'd come back, your return would be bolstered because of your old accomplishments.
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darthalexander
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Post by darthalexander on Dec 22, 2009 16:15:08 GMT -5
Frank Miller is a touchy subject for me. On one hand I want to say the guy's amazing - The Dark Knight Returns, Sin City, his run on Daredevil - then on the other hand I want to say he's become a total awful hack - The Dark Knight Strikes Back (or whatever that garbage was called), his awful Batman/Spawn team up, etc.
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Post by Michael Coello on Dec 22, 2009 18:29:55 GMT -5
I will say that most of Miller's newer stuff gives me some enjoyment, if only how crazy it is. Seriously, the Spirit pulls me in just for the sheer insanity and hilarity of it. Plus, I don't mind All Star, due to 1) Jim Lee's FANTASTIC art and 2) I enjoy the fact that Batman pretty much IS that insane.
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