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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Nov 12, 2009 0:01:14 GMT -5
And Vince is right. What should ECW be considered, Rob? Seriously, at best that is what ECW was, to think anymore is just silly. Vince is right that the only reason we remember ECW is because of him? Seriously? The only reason. Hardly. But the main reason at this point. He never discouraged the ECW chant, which over time was being chanted by more and more people who never saw the original product. He marketed DVDs around PPVs for the promotion. When guys would come over from ECW it was mentioned as such. ECW was given time on the WWF's national show. So yeah, it mostly is Vince at this point. As much as people may love it, ECW, 10 years after the height would not be a blip. Vince has allowed it to stay relivent. |
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Post by corndog on Nov 12, 2009 0:04:40 GMT -5
ECW was never direct competition or a threat to WCW/WWF, but Vince still had motivation to make it a point that he won. Also unlike the AWA/WCCW, ECW didn't fold due to lack of popularity, infact it was at the height of it's popularity when it fell, it was poor financial decisions that caused it's collapse.
So if ECW was never really competition with the WWF or even hurt the company, plus Vince helped ECW, why would he gloat over wearing their belt? ECW changed wrestling and Vince had to conform to their ways. Adult and teenage wrestling fans in the mid 90s were tired of the children friendly, cartoonish garbage that both WCW and the WWF were spewing out. Gone were the days of wrestlers bragging about all of the women they slept with, how much beer they could drink and the bloody cage matches they would have. What had once been a man's world had become a Saturday morning cartoon show. Even though many of the WWF's fans were adults the younger audience was more marketable and easier to control. Towards the end of the 80s and beginning of the 90s Vince really started pinpointing this fanbase and by the mid 90s this was his main focus. There was less/no swearing, the characters were less believeable and there were many over the top cartoonish gimmics. ECW however was much different, first of all it was not marketed to kids. The interviews were more of a shoot style, not someone being a character. The violence was over the top at times, and there was constantly blood in matches. Also beer drinking was encouraged, and bring a barely clothed women to the ring was another plus. ECW made wrestling cool again for teenagers and adults. I am sure if you were 15-21 and got caught watching Doink the Clown vs Tatanka by a non wrestling fan you would get made fun of. But if they saw a blood bath between the Eliminators and Gangstas they might sit down and watch it with you. ECW also showcased a more broad variety of wrestlers and styles. ECW brought in the lucha libre wrestlers from Mexico and led to their sucess and popularity in America in the 90s. They also brought in many wrestlers from Japan. There were young wrestlers that were overlooked or not yet ready for WCW/WWF. What would have happened to Steve Austin and Mick Foley if ECW didn't exist? ECW proved that American fans were sick of the same old stuff and forced both promotions to change, especially the WWF. Also ECW was changing the idea of the face and heel. ECW's top faces Tommy Dreamer and the Sandman were beer drinking out of shape wrestlers who bled in nearly every match and had no problem swearing on the mic. Fans were going to WCW/WWF shows with ECW shirts on. They were also starting to boo do gooders like Hulk Hogan and Bret Hart. The WWF eventually conformed to these fans in hopes of getting ratings through shock value. Steve Austin became the most popular wrestler in the WWF, and former good guys Bret Hart and Shawn Micheals had to turn heel. The WWF's programming was starting to look more like ECW with more swearing, women walking around in short skirts and low cut shirts and tables and chairs were being used more frequently. Bret Hart who used to be a clean cut good guy was swearing on air, calling Micheals gay, and hitting people with chairs. DX started just one year after Micheals was going around kissing babies and being as goody two shoes as you could. The Hell in the Cell match first happened between Shawn Micheals and the Undertaker the same year with both wrestlers ending up in a bloody mess. The Attitude Era had began in the WWF, and probably would have never happened without ECW's inspiration. It also took what looked like a sinking ship into their second biggest boom period ever. WCW also started to change, although still keeping the programming clean. Sting who used to have blonde hair and bright colored face paint, had black hair and makeup looking like the Crow, obviously a much darker version. The nWo began and made it cool to be a bad guy and sold more merchandise than any heels I can remember. The Luchadores, brought in by ECW a few years before, became very popular and a large part of the programming. WCW's midcard was strongly supported by former ECW stars like Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, and Raven.
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hollywood
King Koopa
the bullet dodger
The Green Arrow has approved this post.
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Post by hollywood on Nov 12, 2009 9:14:24 GMT -5
Vince is right that the only reason we remember ECW is because of him? Seriously? The only reason. Hardly. But the main reason at this point. He never discouraged the ECW chant, which over time was being chanted by more and more people who never saw the original product. He marketed DVDs around PPVs for the promotion. When guys would come over from ECW it was mentioned as such. ECW was given time on the WWF's national show. So yeah, it mostly is Vince at this point. As much as people may love it, ECW, 10 years after the height would not be a blip. Vince has allowed it to stay relivent. This I'll agree with. Vince can take credit for keeping ECW relevant, and for making it more visible to the mainstream. However, I don't think he deserves the credit for "training" fans to appreciate ECW. They did that on their own. |
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Fundertaker
Vegeta
Hideo Kojima should direct every ending ever!
Posts: 9,233
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Post by Fundertaker on Nov 12, 2009 10:38:21 GMT -5
I was right there with him up until he said that he probably wasn't missing much by not watching ECW. That's incredibly disrespectful to all the guys on that brand that are busting their asses to make it the best wrestling show on TV. Now I just want to see him come back and lose to Tyler Reks. Fixed for myself  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2009 16:53:49 GMT -5
If anything, Vince has trained me to NOT chant ECW.
And as for this being NEWZ, it is someone's opinion and nothing more. It is not being presented as the 100% factual story of the ECW resurrection, simply RVD's view of it.
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Post by Bubble Lead on Nov 12, 2009 17:38:30 GMT -5
Vince is right that the only reason we remember ECW is because of him? Seriously? The only reason. Hardly. But the main reason at this point. He never discouraged the ECW chant, which over time was being chanted by more and more people who never saw the original product. He marketed DVDs around PPVs for the promotion. When guys would come over from ECW it was mentioned as such. ECW was given time on the WWF's national show. So yeah, it mostly is Vince at this point. As much as people may love it, ECW, 10 years after the height would not be a blip. Vince has allowed it to stay relivent. Really? Mostly Vince? I enjoy the new ECW for its matches but ANY casual fans I know who watched wrestling when it was hot fondly remember ECW, yet most of them dont even know about the new ECW. If they do, they think its a joke compared to the old one. If Vince can just promote anything he wants why would he even use the old ECW name? Why not just make up something completely new? The idea that Vince taught people to chant ECW or people only remember it because of him is stupid. I mean yeah, Vince helped with the Rise and Fall DVD and the ONS PPVs, but to compare, he also promoted a WCW DVD which hasn't sold nearly as well. The only DVD that has sold more than the ECW doc is freakin Wrestlemania 21...which do you think Vince promoted more? Its sold more than any Hogan, Austin, Rock, DX DVDs, the other Wrestlemanias, etc. If that is somehow due to just Vinces promotion I would like to see some reasoning why. Am I saying ECW was legit competition for WCW or WWF? No. That would be like saying TNA right now is competition for WWE. That doesn't mean that ECW wasn't hugely popular though, and Vince taking credit for ECW still being remembered is a ludicrous, especially considering everything about the new ECW has been about burying the things that were special about the old and essentially rebranding it in WWE form to make people forget about it. Its like Wendys being bought out by Burger King, BK keeping the name but completely changing the menu to be exactly like BK over a two year period and only keeping the Frosty... Then saying that people only still like Wendys or remember it at all because of them. |
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Post by A Dubya (El Hombre Muerto) on Nov 12, 2009 18:37:09 GMT -5
The only reason. Hardly. But the main reason at this point. He never discouraged the ECW chant, which over time was being chanted by more and more people who never saw the original product. He marketed DVDs around PPVs for the promotion. When guys would come over from ECW it was mentioned as such. ECW was given time on the WWF's national show. So yeah, it mostly is Vince at this point. As much as people may love it, ECW, 10 years after the height would not be a blip. Vince has allowed it to stay relivent. Really? Mostly Vince? I enjoy the new ECW for its matches but ANY casual fans I know who watched wrestling when it was hot fondly remember ECW, yet most of them dont even know about the new ECW. If they do, they think its a joke compared to the old one. If Vince can just promote anything he wants why would he even use the old ECW name? Why not just make up something completely new? The idea that Vince taught people to chant ECW or people only remember it because of him is stupid. I mean yeah, Vince helped with the Rise and Fall DVD and the ONS PPVs, but to compare, he also promoted a WCW DVD which hasn't sold nearly as well. The only DVD that has sold more than the ECW doc is freakin Wrestlemania 21...which do you think Vince promoted more? Its sold more than any Hogan, Austin, Rock, DX DVDs, the other Wrestlemanias, etc. If that is somehow due to just Vinces promotion I would like to see some reasoning why. Am I saying ECW was legit competition for WCW or WWF? No. That would be like saying TNA right now is competition for WWE. That doesn't mean that ECW wasn't hugely popular though, and Vince taking credit for ECW still being remembered is a ludicrous, especially considering everything about the new ECW has been about burying the things that were special about the old and essentially rebranding it in WWE form to make people forget about it. Its like Wendys being bought out by Burger King, BK keeping the name but completely changing the menu to be exactly like BK over a two year period and only keeping the Frosty... Then saying that people only still like Wendys or remember it at all because of them. Great post. The Burger King/Wendy's analogy is spot on, in my view. That is exactly what "NEWWECW" is. |
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