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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 30, 2009 2:44:17 GMT -5
From a business standpoint ending the brand split would be a bad idea. With the brand split WWE has RAW and SD as pseudo-competition and ECW as an excuse for another smaller fed on TV. Not to mention they can run twice the number of house shows and make more money that way.(in theory at the very least)
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Post by Schattenjager on Dec 30, 2009 4:50:59 GMT -5
The Brand Split started in 2002, why does MikeMorgan constantly mention 2003 as the beginning of the brand split era?
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Post by AndyUK on Dec 30, 2009 11:43:44 GMT -5
I'd like to see it end. I mean, the whole idea was good in theory but the rosters are ridiculously small, especially on ECW and Smackdown and even RAW isn't that much better. We get the same matches with the midcarders every week and with the main eventers every month. Nothing seems to progress much.
I guess if they didn't want to end it completely then they could do what they did at first and unify the World Titles, thus have the champion appear on both shows. That would at least freshen the main event scene up a lot.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 30, 2009 16:36:04 GMT -5
The Brand Split started in 2002, why does MikeMorgan constantly mention 2003 as the beginning of the brand split era? Why do people keep ignoring the fact that they used to run two (sometimes 3) house shows a night with a single roster more than twice as large as all three brands combined now? And keep insisting that the entire midcard would be fired despite the fact that in the past it just forced their hand to create tag team and IC divisions? Ah, history. It only means something in an argument when you have a concept of it.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Dec 30, 2009 16:46:20 GMT -5
Why does everybody seem to think that the brand split has done so much to develop new stars? There have been only three consistent MEs made since it began: John Cena Batista Randy Orton
Punk could be an ME...but he's getting Yo-yo'd and isn't treated as a serious threat to Cena. 3 MEs out of a 7 year period is a very low creation rate. It gets even lower when you consider Batista takes alot of time off due to injuries.
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Dec 30, 2009 19:36:42 GMT -5
Why does everybody seem to think that the brand split has done so much to develop new stars? There have been only three consistent MEs made since it began: John Cena Batista Randy Orton Punk could be an ME...but he's getting Yo-yo'd and isn't treated as a serious threat to Cena. 3 MEs out of a 7 year period is a very low creation rate. It gets even lower when you consider Batista takes alot of time off due to injuries. They just happen to have 3 guys that have got over, stayed over, and liked wrestling enough to stay there. You're ignoring Edge, you're ignoring Jeff Hardy. Punk most certainly counts. If Brock Lesnar stayed he would count. Chris Benoit got higher with the brand split than he ever would have without it. So did Eddie Guerrero. Guys like Booker T, Rey and Jericho got more world titles between them and became proper main eventers post brand split than they would have without it. You're also ignoring JBL. RVD became a main eventer post brand split and may not have been given the ball without it - WWE pushed him and he screwed it up. Then there's Sheamus. And Lashley. And those are just guys that that got the push and done well enough with it for the WWE to go all the way with them and give them a world title. There are guys like Kennedy and Regal that had pushes but decided to get suspended instead. They've also got Kofi and Morrison both getting pushed towards the main event, and it wouldn't happen if both of them were on a single roster.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Dec 30, 2009 20:13:39 GMT -5
They just happen to have 3 guys that have got over, stayed over, and liked wrestling enough to stay there. You're ignoring Edge, you're ignoring Jeff Hardy. Punk most certainly counts. If Brock Lesnar stayed he would count. Chris Benoit got higher with the brand split than he ever would have without it. So did Eddie Guerrero. Guys like Booker T, Rey and Jericho got more world titles between them and became proper main eventers post brand split than they would have without it. You're also ignoring JBL. RVD became a main eventer post brand split and may not have been given the ball without it - WWE pushed him and he screwed it up. Then there's Sheamus. And Lashley. And those are just guys that that got the push and done well enough with it for the WWE to go all the way with them and give them a world title. There are guys like Kennedy and Regal that had pushes but decided to get suspended instead. They've also got Kofi and Morrison both getting pushed towards the main event, and it wouldn't happen if both of them were on a single roster. They only have three guys with them currently who became ME draws because of the brand split. Its remains to be seen whether Sheamus will remain an ME or get Yo-yo'd like Punk. Most of the guys you mentioned were already over back in WCW--WWE didn't build them from the ground up, like it will for all its modern talent. The actual rate of making successful MEs in modern WWE is extremely poor IMO.
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Dec 30, 2009 20:39:04 GMT -5
They just happen to have 3 guys that have got over, stayed over, and liked wrestling enough to stay there. You're ignoring Edge, you're ignoring Jeff Hardy. Punk most certainly counts. If Brock Lesnar stayed he would count. Chris Benoit got higher with the brand split than he ever would have without it. So did Eddie Guerrero. Guys like Booker T, Rey and Jericho got more world titles between them and became proper main eventers post brand split than they would have without it. You're also ignoring JBL. RVD became a main eventer post brand split and may not have been given the ball without it - WWE pushed him and he screwed it up. Then there's Sheamus. And Lashley. And those are just guys that that got the push and done well enough with it for the WWE to go all the way with them and give them a world title. There are guys like Kennedy and Regal that had pushes but decided to get suspended instead. They've also got Kofi and Morrison both getting pushed towards the main event, and it wouldn't happen if both of them were on a single roster. They only have three guys with them currently who became ME draws because of the brand split. Its remains to be seen whether Sheamus will remain an ME or get Yo-yo'd like Punk. Most of the guys you mentioned were already over back in WCW--WWE didn't build them from the ground up, like it will for all its modern talent. The actual rate of making successful MEs in modern WWE is extremely poor IMO. Benoit and Eddie weren't 'main event draws' in WCW, certainly not enough to do the same in the WWE, and it wasn't until WWE elevated them that they were recognised as such. Same with Rey, he was a cruserweight. 'Being over' in another company doesn't constitute 'credible world champion/main eventer' in the WWE, which is a different kettle of fish all together. I'm going to concede Booker and Jericho, who weren't exactly 'made' by the brand split. However what the brand split did do was give all of these guys the chance to be elevated to the top of the company, which probably wouldn't have happened had there been only one roster. You immediately half the amount of guys you can push, and even then because there's already a crop of main eventers there is no space at the top, reducing opportunities further still. Punk is being yo-yoed because there is a lack of faces on Smackdown, but that doesn't change the fact that the brand split allowed him the opportunity to become world champion. Saying Punk doesn't count is like me saying Triple H doesn't count because he is now in the tag division and not fighting for the title all the time. Every single guy spends time in the mid-card if they have been a main eventer, particularly so when there aren't enough main eventers of the opposite disposition for them to feud with. So I'm going to count Sheamus, because again, without the brand split, he never even would have had the chance. Same with Edge. Same with Jeff Hardy. Now, those last 2 guys were who WWE built from the ground up, but I think it's incredibly harsh to say that for a guy to qualify for the 'stars made by the brand split' list, you have to be with the company from developmental right to main event. That means that all the guys I did list, all the guys that were mid-carders until the brand split, would have had to be by-passed for guys that come from developmental just so the WWE can say they have 'created stars' in your opinion. When most people bemoan the fact that a guy can spend 2 years on the main roster before becomming a champion where as in the old days you used to have to work the terrotories for 10 years before you got your break, that's further harsh still. What's WWE supposed to do, try to push as many guys as possible to world titles in their first year on the roster? Madness. A lot of guys have had the opportunity to main event as a result of the brand split, and that's it's main objective. Creating new, totally new stars that qualify in your opinion is going to happen in the next 10 years or so, when guys like Morrison, Kofi, Swagger etc are leading the company, when they are actually ready. The object is to provide opportunity for more of their roster. If you 'were over in WCW' it doesn't mean you are good enough to main event WWE. It isn't until the WWE has put you over all the talent on your roster and elevated you to an extent that you are now the top guy, do the fans buy you as a credible WWE main eventer. If a guy has been a mid-carder and then becomes a champion in the brand split era, I consider that a 'star made' because the brand split has given them the opportunity to do so. Without it, the guys I listed never even would have had the shot, they would have had to wait until HHH, HBK, Taker, Cena and Orton retired, becuase there are only so many spots to go around. There would have been a whole lot of talented guys that are now getting exposure and elevation that serve as pointless, interchangable filler for a stable instead of becomming a star in their own right.
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