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Post by Fantozzi on Dec 22, 2009 15:27:43 GMT -5
Because titles are used to get people over. Guys like Matt Hardy and Shelton Benjamin are already established. In all honesty, what good would it do to have Hardy or Benjamin win the I-C Title? Also, it's been proven that the fans just don't give a crap about Shelton. Yeah, the guy is AWESOME in the ring. But no one cares about him. The poor guy works his ass off but gets a Conway pop every night because the fans have no idea why they should cheer him. And why SHOULD we cheer him? I still have no clue why he turned face in the first place. is sheamus over now that he's champion? and yes, nobody cares about shelton. but nobody cares for sheamus too
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Dec 22, 2009 15:51:06 GMT -5
New guys in the ME scene. Not BRAND new guys. Yeah those brand new guys who've been wrestling for seven years (Seamus) and eight years (Drew) respectively. They should give those shots to somebody who's paid their dues like Kofi Kingston (wrestling three years)! That's a lame argument, because the WWE doesn't care about what anyone did outside of the WWE. When Benoit and Booker came in, the WWE felt the need to rebuild their character, despite being on tv for about 8- 10 years at that point and winning multiple titles in WCW. Kofi's been on WWE tv since 2007. Two years of building his on-screen character. He's held the ic, us and tag team titles. Been in MITB. He deserves to be where he is right now, feuding with upper mid-carders, and knocking on the door of the main event. Swagger winning it would have made more sense than Sheamus or Drew. Miz having the u.s. title makes more sense than Drew having the IC title. Hell, Nick Nemeth's current character has been on WWE tv since 2008, and him finally winning the IC title would have made more sense than Drew winning it. Christian was ready to break out during his Captain Charisma run, but didn't get into the ME scene until TNA gave him the NWA title. He great on the mic and has a very accomplished resume in the E, with the world title being the one thing missing from it. The fans actually care about Christian. Sheamus has been on tv for 3-6 months, beating jobbers and low-card wrestlers. Now he's a champion. Why? Drew's been on for 3-6 months. He's beaten R-Truth and Finlay. And how does that even merit a IC title match? Because of their work outside of the WWE? It's the Buddy System.
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Post by mightydavidson on Dec 22, 2009 17:14:35 GMT -5
Yeah those brand new guys who've been wrestling for seven years (Seamus) and eight years (Drew) respectively. They should give those shots to somebody who's paid their dues like Kofi Kingston (wrestling three years)! That's a lame argument, because the WWE doesn't care about what anyone did outside of the WWE. When Benoit and Booker came in, the WWE felt the need to rebuild their character, despite being on tv for about 8- 10 years at that point and winning multiple titles in WCW. Kofi's been on WWE tv since 2007. Two years of building his on-screen character. He's held the ic, us and tag team titles. Been in MITB. He deserves to be where he is right now, feuding with upper mid-carders, and knocking on the door of the main event. Swagger winning it would have made more sense than Sheamus or Drew. Miz having the u.s. title makes more sense than Drew having the IC title. Hell, Nick Nemeth's current character has been on WWE tv since 2008, and him finally winning the IC title would have made more sense than Drew winning it. Christian was ready to break out during his Captain Charisma run, but didn't get into the ME scene until TNA gave him the NWA title. He great on the mic and has a very accomplished resume in the E, with the world title being the one thing missing from it. The fans actually care about Christian. Sheamus has been on tv for 3-6 months, beating jobbers and low-card wrestlers. Now he's a champion. Why? Drew's been on for 3-6 months. He's beaten R-Truth and Finlay. And how does that even merit a IC title match? Because of their work outside of the WWE? It's the Buddy System. If the WWE didn't care what Seamus and Drew had done before the WWE, they wouldn't have hired them in the first place. Also I love the fact that you're arguing that the WWE doesn't care about what happens outside the WWE, but use the fact that Christian didn't get pushed at any sort of main event level untill after he'd gone to TNA and won the NWA title as part of your argument. See it's funny because it CONTRADICTS YOUR ARGUMENT!
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Dec 22, 2009 17:35:19 GMT -5
Yeah those brand new guys who've been wrestling for seven years (Seamus) and eight years (Drew) respectively. They should give those shots to somebody who's paid their dues like Kofi Kingston (wrestling three years)! That's a lame argument, because the WWE doesn't care about what anyone did outside of the WWE. When Benoit and Booker came in, the WWE felt the need to rebuild their character, despite being on tv for about 8- 10 years at that point and winning multiple titles in WCW. Kofi's been on WWE tv since 2007. Two years of building his on-screen character. He's held the ic, us and tag team titles. Been in MITB. He deserves to be where he is right now, feuding with upper mid-carders, and knocking on the door of the main event. Swagger winning it would have made more sense than Sheamus or Drew. Miz having the u.s. title makes more sense than Drew having the IC title. Hell, Nick Nemeth's current character has been on WWE tv since 2008, and him finally winning the IC title would have made more sense than Drew winning it. Christian was ready to break out during his Captain Charisma run, but didn't get into the ME scene until TNA gave him the NWA title. He great on the mic and has a very accomplished resume in the E, with the world title being the one thing missing from it. The fans actually care about Christian. Sheamus has been on tv for 3-6 months, beating jobbers and low-card wrestlers. Now he's a champion. Why? Drew's been on for 3-6 months. He's beaten R-Truth and Finlay. And how does that even merit a IC title match? Because of their work outside of the WWE? It's the Buddy System. Buddy system? Sheamus and Drew aren't HHH's friends. They are guys he rates, because he knows what is good.
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Post by Taupy on Dec 22, 2009 17:50:08 GMT -5
Because Shelton and Matt have a lot of experience and are good at putting other wrestlers over. Same for a guy like Paul Burchill.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 22, 2009 18:25:52 GMT -5
That's a lame argument, because the WWE doesn't care about what anyone did outside of the WWE. When Benoit and Booker came in, the WWE felt the need to rebuild their character, despite being on tv for about 8- 10 years at that point and winning multiple titles in WCW. Kofi's been on WWE tv since 2007. Two years of building his on-screen character. He's held the ic, us and tag team titles. Been in MITB. He deserves to be where he is right now, feuding with upper mid-carders, and knocking on the door of the main event. Swagger winning it would have made more sense than Sheamus or Drew. Miz having the u.s. title makes more sense than Drew having the IC title. Hell, Nick Nemeth's current character has been on WWE tv since 2008, and him finally winning the IC title would have made more sense than Drew winning it. Christian was ready to break out during his Captain Charisma run, but didn't get into the ME scene until TNA gave him the NWA title. He great on the mic and has a very accomplished resume in the E, with the world title being the one thing missing from it. The fans actually care about Christian. Sheamus has been on tv for 3-6 months, beating jobbers and low-card wrestlers. Now he's a champion. Why? Drew's been on for 3-6 months. He's beaten R-Truth and Finlay. And how does that even merit a IC title match? Because of their work outside of the WWE? It's the Buddy System. Buddy system? Sheamus and Drew aren't HHH's friends. They are guys he rates, because he knows what is good. Drew isn't Hunter's buddy, but HHH has said that he (HHH) and Sheamus work out together often.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Dec 22, 2009 20:16:30 GMT -5
That's a lame argument, because the WWE doesn't care about what anyone did outside of the WWE. When Benoit and Booker came in, the WWE felt the need to rebuild their character, despite being on tv for about 8- 10 years at that point and winning multiple titles in WCW. Kofi's been on WWE tv since 2007. Two years of building his on-screen character. He's held the ic, us and tag team titles. Been in MITB. He deserves to be where he is right now, feuding with upper mid-carders, and knocking on the door of the main event. Swagger winning it would have made more sense than Sheamus or Drew. Miz having the u.s. title makes more sense than Drew having the IC title. Hell, Nick Nemeth's current character has been on WWE tv since 2008, and him finally winning the IC title would have made more sense than Drew winning it. Christian was ready to break out during his Captain Charisma run, but didn't get into the ME scene until TNA gave him the NWA title. He great on the mic and has a very accomplished resume in the E, with the world title being the one thing missing from it. The fans actually care about Christian. Sheamus has been on tv for 3-6 months, beating jobbers and low-card wrestlers. Now he's a champion. Why? Drew's been on for 3-6 months. He's beaten R-Truth and Finlay. And how does that even merit a IC title match? Because of their work outside of the WWE? It's the Buddy System. If the WWE didn't care what Seamus and Drew had done before the WWE, they wouldn't have hired them in the first place. Also I love the fact that you're arguing that the WWE doesn't care about what happens outside the WWE, but use the fact that Christian didn't get pushed at any sort of main event level untill after he'd gone to TNA and won the NWA title as part of your argument. See it's funny because it CONTRADICTS YOUR ARGUMENT! You choose to miss the whole point because you want to nitpick my statements. Sheamus has been on tv for 3-6 months, beating jobbers and low-card wrestlers. Now he's a champion. Why? Drew's been on for 3-6 months. He's beaten R-Truth and Finlay. And how does that even merit a IC title match? How did they earn those spots in such a short time? Because of their experience outside of the company? Why would the WWE rebuild guys like benoit and booker T, when they were on tv for almost 10 years in the states, but not build Sheamus' and Drew's character on tv before they get titles? As far as Christian is concerned, what did he accomplish before he left for TNA? 1- WWF European Championship (1 time) 2- WWF Hardcore Championship (1 time) 3- WWF/E Intercontinental Championship (3 times) 4- WWF Light Heavyweight Championship (1 time) 5- WWF/E Tag Team Championship/World Tag Team Championship (9 times) – with Chris Jericho (1), Edge (7), and Lance Storm (1) Did he accomplish this because the WWE was impressed with his ECWA Championship run in 1998? No, because he put in work in a WWE ring and into his character over time to prove he belonged. He won the ECW title a couple of months after returning because he was already established as a name in the company. I think if Christian won the WWE title, it would be hard to say he didn't deserve it. It doesn't matter now, because what's done is done, but there are more deserving guys who shouldn't have been leap-frogged by guys who have been on the main roster for a few months because Triple H likes them.
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Dec 22, 2009 22:14:44 GMT -5
1) Christian is getting a push, as is Regal to an extent. It just is happening on ECW.
2) McIntire being the IC is not a bad deal. Honestly, it is a good thing.
3) Hopefully Matt Hardy's push can resume when the need to promote Jeff's DVD is gone. Perhaps it can even be about his own desire to become champ if Batista does become champ (please note that Matt need not be successful here, but rather the underdog challenger of the month to save the big money feuds for Bats for the big PPVs)
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Post by Lionheart on Dec 22, 2009 22:39:48 GMT -5
2) McIntire being the IC is not a bad deal thing. Honestly, it is a good thing. Fixed for DDPness.
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Post by halliday32 on Dec 22, 2009 23:42:04 GMT -5
I have no problems with sheamus and mcintyre getting titles so quickly because the perception that they don't deserve the them gives them a great opportunity to build themselves into heels. It also lets the face (like Cena) rebuild their support because the fans care more for faces when they're chasing down the bad guys. If Sheamus and Mcintyre both play their cards right, one of the midcard faces (Matt or Shelton, etc.) could catapault into the ME like Kingston so there would be enough "push" to go around
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Post by Mac on Dec 22, 2009 23:45:52 GMT -5
Im solidly against Sheamus winning the world title. New guys in the Main Event picture is always great, hot shotting someone for no apparent reason seems ridiculous to me.
Drew McIntyre as of right now is an uninteresting run of the mill JAG who could possibly get over as the IC champ putting on a few good matches nd fueding with some face guys. I dont hate him winning the 4th or 5th most prestiguous title in the WWE cuz I mean SOMEONE has to.
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Post by Larryhausen on Dec 22, 2009 23:51:31 GMT -5
Here's what I think.
Does anybody remember that night on Raw where "The Kid" beet Razor Ramon? And then later on that night, Marty Jannetty beat HBK for the IC title? Both of these things happened competely out of nowhere, and they started advertising that "Anything can happen in the WWF"
Fast forward 16 years, and now everything is predictable. Everyone knows whats gonna happen. And at the same time, wrestling's biggest opponent, MMA, can have guys have four fights then win the world title.
To me, it seems like WWE is trying to do something like that. Will it work? Who knows, but at least they're giving it a shot, rather than doing what's comfortable.
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Post by nonrev on Dec 23, 2009 0:38:12 GMT -5
This times one thousand I remember as soon as Sheamus got drafted to Raw we heard reports that H was working out a lot with him and was treating him like his protege...and less than two months later he's the champion of the show. really? Mcintyre debuts on Smackdown and Vince pretty much tells us from the beginning he's going to be a future champion despite nobody seeing what he has done in a WWE ring yet, or whether or not he can "draw" and what do you know 3 months after the public seal of approval he gets the midcard belt. Both scenarios seem to be to be eyebrow raising but from how I see it it is merely self fulfilling prophecies. The two men endorse their favorites from the beginning and then push them to the moon despite either man displaying substantial drawing power...but I suppose it doesn't really matter if you draw or not because you don't get titles unless they think you can draw......right? It seems like McIntyre and Sheamus are the new Cena, Orton and Batista (handpicked from the beginning by the boss and his son) except the E no longer has the patience to allow them to get over without gold. Instead they immediately give them the gold and hope that will get them over. But I guess it is their company, and the kids love it, and they still make money, and.....
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Post by coolkevthedude on Dec 23, 2009 3:12:58 GMT -5
Because titles are used to get people over. Guys like Matt Hardy and Shelton Benjamin are already established. In all honesty, what good would it do to have Hardy or Benjamin win the I-C Title? Also, it's been proven that the fans just don't give a crap about Shelton. Yeah, the guy is AWESOME in the ring. But no one cares about him. The poor guy works his ass off but gets a Conway pop every night because the fans have no idea why they should cheer him. And why SHOULD we cheer him? I still have no clue why he turned face in the first place. You have a point
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Dec 23, 2009 9:18:27 GMT -5
Let's actually look at what HHH said:
HHH: The closest to me is probably Sheamus, because we always train together on the road. But I try to watch all the young guys' matches and give them advice, if they want to hear it. If they take advice to heart and really want to improve, them I am wanting to help. As for seeing some of myself in someone? Thats tough. Sheamus just the other day showed up at a show he didn't have to be at. He does whatever he's asked to do without complaining, he goes to every show and is always wanting to work: he does it all, goes above and beyond. That's what I was like.
So HHH isn't just giving a 'friend' a push. I think Vince has identified qualities in Sheamus that can make him a marketable star - his unique look, size and gimmick - and HHH has identified that he has the personal qualities that will make him a sustainable star - the fact that he is willing to go the extra mile, going above and beyond etc. There is no reason for HHH to be friends with Sheamus, they aren't lifelong buddies like he is with HBK, and neither was Orton or Batista. They were handpicked, but not because they are friends, but because they have personal qualities that will make a star. Like Cena has those same qualities, he is a tremendously hard worker outside of the areana, always wanting to improve and is willing to do whatever the company asks. That's the kind of person you can put your belief in, that you can feature them prominently in the company.
Sheamus would have got the call to ECW because of his talent and unique look and they probably thought 'Let's see how he does', and that's why he has even feuds with Shelton and Goldust. I'll bet anything that during the time he was on the main roster, he was showing up at all the shows, asking the older guys for advice and going the extra mile. This is how he made the influential guys in the company take notice, like you would in any business if you demonstrated your desire to do well. So then HHH takes him under his wing, because HHH thinks 'This guy has what it takes to be a star'. He then gets moved to Raw and gets an entirely different push to the one he got on ECW, so something changed. He made people believe that he was worthy of getting a fast push.
It wasn't 'HHH gives his friend a call up and then gives him the title' it was 'Wrestler gets called up, demonstrates ability and desire, catches the eye of influential people in the company, then gets push'. There was no reason for HHH to care about Sheamus whatsoever until Sheamus demonstrated that he was worth investing in, and HHH knows what draws in this business.
It's like when stories came out a while back about Vince 'palling up' with Cena. Well, dur. Of course they are going to be close. Cena is his cash cow. Vince has no reason to be friends with Cena though. Cena isn't a family friend, and he hasn't saved Vince's life. The reason Vince gets close to Cena is because Cena has demonstrated that he will be a success in this business, so is worth investing in.
With the company as it is now, I don't think any wrestler is going to get a 'push' without HHH behind them. Any wrestler that comes to the main roster from developmental now, would have joined the company when HHH is in the position he is in, so he will see their development right the way through. If the company has the confidence to push someone, it means the entire office, including HHH, agrees that they are worth investing in. So every new star that ever gets pushed from now until whenever HHH moves on is going to have HHH behind him, because HHH knows what sells. It just so happens that with Sheamus, HHH gave an interview where he put him over, so the fans assume Sheamus is a special case. But it's going to be like that for every new guy, because you're going to have to impress one of the decision makers if you want to make it in the company. Cena has HHH behind him, so does Orton, so does Batista, so did Jeff Hardy, so does Punk, so does Cody and so does Ted. And anyone else that's ever going to go far in the WWE.
And that's not HHH abusing his power. He simply knows what it takes to be a success.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2009 9:31:56 GMT -5
Admit it, the I-C belt was getting stale around John Morrison's waist. I don't care for Drew, but sometimes you've just got to say "What the hell, let's try this".
Drew has been coming out for weeks, telling us he's Vince McMahon's "chosen one" and he'll be World Champion soon. Why not throw the belt on him and see what he can do? If he's good, then there's merit for his bragging. If he sucks, well, at least they didn't "waste" a WHC reign on him.
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Dec 23, 2009 11:18:33 GMT -5
I think you mean Body System
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Dec 23, 2009 13:43:02 GMT -5
Admit it, the I-C belt was getting stale around John Morrison's waist. I don't care for Drew, but sometimes you've just got to say "What the hell, let's try this". Drew has been coming out for weeks, telling us he's Vince McMahon's "chosen one" and he'll be World Champion soon. Why not throw the belt on him and see what he can do? If he's good, then there's merit for his bragging. If he sucks, well, at least they didn't "waste" a WHC reign on him. This is exactly my view on McIntire having the IC belt. Sure, Hardy or someone else could be IC champ, but would it matter?
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Post by Big L on Dec 23, 2009 13:51:03 GMT -5
New stars getting a push? Isn't this what we wanted to happen? ^
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Post by CMWaters on Dec 23, 2009 14:22:20 GMT -5
I'm not gonna argue one way or another...
But I wonder if Kurt Angle got so much flak when they gave him the WWF title after being in the company for less than a year, and being partially comedy for most of that time.
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